AOD-9604 worth the money?

[Proud Pangolin]

Hey has anybody (good) experience with AOD for fat loss? That stuff is pretty expensive, so is it worth the money?

I thought about doing 500mcq-1mg every morning combined with fasted cardio.

 

[Dunkirk]

I have during my cut. I felt the difference for sure. I didn't document it to see how effective it was, but I saw a faster weight loss while on it. I did stack it with Sema to help with appetite, that was before I knew about triz or even Sema.

I know it has a lot of mixed reviews, but it worked well for me. I stopped to get on Reta and been on that since.

 

[AlexDavis43]

Hey has anybody (good) experience with AOD for fat loss? That stuff is pretty expensive, so is it worth the money?

I thought about doing 500mcq-1mg every morning combined with fasted cardio.

I like it and it's not very expensive. Cheaper than a Starbucks coffee.

 

[Proud Pangolin]

I have during my cut. I felt the difference for sure. I didn't document it to see how effective it was, but I saw a faster weight loss while on it. I did stack it with Sema to help with appetite, that was before I knew about triz or even Sema.

I know it has a lot of mixed reviews, but it worked well for me. I stopped to get on Reta and been on that since.

Have you used GH or some GH parallel to it during the cut?
Somebody told me it wont much if you are already on GH

 

[AlexDavis43]

Have you used GH or some GH parallel to it during the cut?
Somebody told me it wont much if you are already on GH

AOD is the lipolytic fragment of GH

So doing both you gets extra lipolysis and still the other benefits of GH

 

[Proud Pangolin]

AOD is the lipolytic fragment of GH

So doing both you gets extra lipolysis and still the other benefits of GH

That was also my thought, however i found this

"The GH pathways involved in anabolism are also susceptible to desensitization, which is by design as part of endogenous GH physiology [385]. Due to the inherently pulsatile nature of GH in vivo, receptors and pathways expect a pulse followed by a period of inactivity [386]. Continuous, or repeated, exposure to subsequent GH without proper refractory time will result in heavily suppressed activity levels. In fact, numerous studies have shown this to be the case over the years. Skeletal muscle cells and tissues require a somewhat lengthy refractory period before their full response to GH is recovered. After exposure to GH, muscle cells are unable to even respond to subsequent GH doses at all. In fact, it takes a full two hours just to partially regain responsiveness in cell models, with a total of 6-8 hours of GH abstinence required for full sensitivity to be restored [366]. Conversely, when GH is micro-dosed in ten minute pulses, followed by eight hour intervals, it was shown to progressively increase IGF-1 mRNA with each subsequent pulse [386].
This phenomenon is potentially a result of an overall desensitization within the JAK-STAT5 pathway, as exposure to GH in hepatic cell studies has been shown to cause resistance to subsequent activation of the STAT5 pathway for 4-8 hours [387-388]. This timeframe just so happens to sync up quite nicely with what has been seen in the myocyte cell models mentioned previously."


So basically my concern is the following:

I had VERY good results with GHRP-2 +CJC no DAC considering fat loss. Even better than with GH.

(My hypothese is that rHGH needs like 2h to reach is concentration peak while GHRP-2+CJC will result in the GH peak 20min after imjecting and as im doing "only 45min of fasted cardio" every morning with the GHRP-2+CJC the GH peak is "there" during my cardio while the GH with rHGH is not. Just a guess from my side)

=> Now my concern is that if i inject AOD together with GHRP-2 and CJC im desensitizing the receptors responsible for the lipolytic effect on top of maybe dampering the GH release due to the activation and tgerefore lowering the GH peak.


The problem is, i cat really tell if these are valid concerns as there are almost no studys about AOD. I know thats highly theoretical at this point but I also had an very good anabolic reaction (besides the fatburning reaction) from GHRP-2 -CJC WHICH I SHOULDNT HAVE HAD.

Like no clue why. Right now people ask me if im on cycle. Im not. Really dont know what is going on. Couldnt really find an explanation for this effect either so thats why im so much overthinking this i guess

 

[Proud Pangolin]

AOD is the lipolytic fragment of GH

So doing both you gets extra lipolysis and still the other benefits of GH

I only found this as a potential explanation why i reacted so anabolic on GHRP-2+CJC and did not (like a lot of peopel) on 4IU rHGH.
Its a different topic but i why not throw it in, maybe you find it interesting:


"I’ve mentioned this quite a few times already but, in an attempt to further drive this point home, autocrine levels of IGF-1 appear to be far more important than endocrine levels of IGF-1 as it relates to muscle mass regulation. Further to this point, overexpression of autocrine IGF-1 within muscle causes fiber hypertrophy [374]. Overexpression of autocrine IGF-1 has also shown anti-catabolic effects, with animal models tending to demonstrate an overall resistance to the muscle atrophy normally observed with aging [375]. Localized IGF-1 also provides age-independent regenerative capacity in skeletal muscle cells [376].
There is also some compelling evidence that suggests endocrine IGF-1 acts directly as a negative feedback regulator on autocrine IGF-1 production. This negative feedback mechanism is PI3K/Akt pathway dependent [377-378]. In addition, elevated endocrine IGF-1 levels may also act indirectly to stifle autocrine IGF-1 production. So, in other words, not only does endocrine IGF-1 have minor direct impacts on skeletal muscle mass regulation itself, but it also possibly suppresses the autocrine IGF-1 that has major impacts on hypertrophy.
Elevated levels of circulating IGF-1, and specifically elevated free IGF-1, act in a negative regulatory manner on GH ultimately resulting in a suppressed rate of downstream autocrine IGF-1 production [379]. It is not entirely clear, however, if IGF-1 negative regulation changes the half-life of IGF-1 mRNA or directly affects IGF-1 gene expression. Further to this, it has also been demonstrated that autocrine IGF-1 expression is downregulated in muscle cells following IGF-1 treatment [366]. Hepatic expression of IGF-1 mRNA has also been shown to be downregulated by acute IGF-1 exposure [127]. So ensuring we keep endocrine levels as suppressed as possible for a respective rHGH dose, while simultaneously elevating autocrine levels, is going to be a priority for the stack design.
GH is pulsatile by nature in all species. So it would stand to reason that many of the body’s built in processes are going to thereby be designed in a manner which will be optimized to exposure to GH in a similar manner. In accordance with this statement it has been shown that only pulsatile GH administration, and not continuous infusion, has the ability to maximally stimulate IGF-1 mRNA expression in skeletal muscle [366,380-381]. Pulsatile delivery has also been shown to lead to increased overall postnatal growth potential, as compared to continuous delivery [89,382]. Pulsatile administration may also lead to comparable, or even decreased, serum endocrine IGF-1 levels [383] which is advantageous due to the potential negative regulatory capabilities it possesses on autocrine IGF-1 expression which were discussed earlier. Evidence also suggests that the peak itself, and not necessarily the number of peaks, may be of utmost importance to target tissues [384]. For maximal growth and hypertrophy potential the evidence tends to suggest that getting GH elevated, and then back to baseline multiple times per day, may be preferable as compared to keeping them elevated for longer periods of time.”

Full source: The Most Effective Growth Hormone Protocol for Hypertrophy «


=> So maybe GHRP-2+ CJC simply raises autocrine IGF-1 levels through thats pulsative manner while rHGH primarly raises endocrine IGF-1 levels and therefore surpressing autocrine igf-1 levels, which probably "can ne overcome" with very high HGH dosages as used by probodybuilders.

This woukd also explain why many Probodybuilders swear on high HGH dosages even though HGH only raise IGF-1 to a certain level. HOWEVER in bloodwork the endocrine IGF-1 levels are messured and while more HGH may not lead to an increase in this level it probably increases the autocrine IGF-1 levels

 

[geodesic7]

Due to AOD-9604's constant delicacy and tendency to gel up in the vial, I have found it is only useful or worth the bother when loaded into a 3ml insulin pen cartridge. That way you get all air pushed out by the plunger so if it gels it can still be dispensed smoothly.

 

[Proud Pangolin]

Due to AOD-9604's constant delicacy and tendency to gel up in the vial, I have found it is only useful or worth the bother when loaded into a 3ml insulin pen cartridge. That way you get all air pushed out by the plunger so if it gels it can still be dispensed smoothly.

What pen ate you using? Or how are you doing it? I generally fought of using these insulin pens as with 3 injections a day preparing all the syringes for the peptides is a real pain in the ass and takes forever.

 

[AlexDavis43]

That was also my thought, however i found this

"The GH pathways involved in anabolism are also susceptible to desensitization, which is by design as part of endogenous GH physiology [385]. Due to the inherently pulsatile nature of GH in vivo, receptors and pathways expect a pulse followed by a period of inactivity [386]. Continuous, or repeated, exposure to subsequent GH without proper refractory time will result in heavily suppressed activity levels. In fact, numerous studies have shown this to be the case over the years. Skeletal muscle cells and tissues require a somewhat lengthy refractory period before their full response to GH is recovered. After exposure to GH, muscle cells are unable to even respond to subsequent GH doses at all. In fact, it takes a full two hours just to partially regain responsiveness in cell models, with a total of 6-8 hours of GH abstinence required for full sensitivity to be restored [366]. Conversely, when GH is micro-dosed in ten minute pulses, followed by eight hour intervals, it was shown to progressively increase IGF-1 mRNA with each subsequent pulse [386].
This phenomenon is potentially a result of an overall desensitization within the JAK-STAT5 pathway, as exposure to GH in hepatic cell studies has been shown to cause resistance to subsequent activation of the STAT5 pathway for 4-8 hours [387-388]. This timeframe just so happens to sync up quite nicely with what has been seen in the myocyte cell models mentioned previously."


So basically my concern is the following:

I had VERY good results with GHRP-2 +CJC no DAC considering fat loss. Even better than with GH.

(My hypothese is that rHGH needs like 2h to reach is concentration peak while GHRP-2+CJC will result in the GH peak 20min after imjecting and as im doing "only 45min of fasted cardio" every morning with the GHRP-2+CJC the GH peak is "there" during my cardio while the GH with rHGH is not. Just a guess from my side)

=> Now my concern is that if i inject AOD together with GHRP-2 and CJC im desensitizing the receptors responsible for the lipolytic effect on top of maybe dampering the GH release due to the activation and tgerefore lowering the GH peak.


The problem is, i cat really tell if these are valid concerns as there are almost no studys about AOD. I know thats highly theoretical at this point but I also had an very good anabolic reaction (besides the fatburning reaction) from GHRP-2 -CJC WHICH I SHOULDNT HAVE HAD.

Like no clue why. Right now people ask me if im on cycle. Im not. Really dont know what is going on. Couldnt really find an explanation for this effect either so thats why im so much overthinking this i guess

Right. Not like we have a systematic analysis of randomized clinical trials.

Disclaimer: I'm always on GH. Don't know if that factors in here.

But, I recognize the difference between visible abs and a 6-pack. Every time I go through a kit of AOD, there is a noticeable difference.

I'm not trying to convince anyone to use this compound, that's just my experience.

 

[geodesic7]

What pen ate you using? Or how are you doing it? I generally fought of using these insulin pens as with 3 injections a day preparing all the syringes for the peptides is a real pain in the ass and takes forever.

Just the cheapest generic from Ali Express works. Magic Pen sometimes called in listing.

I have a pen for Super KLOW (BPC/TB4/GHK-Cu/KPV/IPAm/CJC), for AOD, for Reta, and one for HGH.

 

[Proud Pangolin]

Right. Not like we have a systematic analysis of randomized clinical trials.

Disclaimer: I'm always on GH. Don't know if that factors in here.

But, I recognize the difference between visible abs and a 6-pack. Every time I go through a kit of AOD, there is a noticeable difference.

I'm not trying to convince anyone to use this compound, that's just my experience.

Yes thank you for your insight.

Im probably overthinking it anyways. Basically im only "really" concernd if AOD could damper the GH release of GHRP-2 and CJC.

Btw how much AOD or what protocol were you running? And how much HGH?

 

[AlexDavis43]

Yes thank you for your insight.

Im probably overthinking it anyways. Basically im only "really" concernd if AOD could damper the GH release of GHRP-2 and CJC.

Btw how much AOD or what protocol were you running? And how much HGH?

A lot of both. Again this is just me and I'm not recommending it, but I like the results.

Worked up to 10 IU GH so that's always running in the background. Eventually I'll back down to 5 or 6, maybe after summer.

0.5-1 mg/d AOD. At 1 mg it seems like you don't need to be so mindful about diet. Leanness just happens. I don't know why it's not more popular. Maybe the price is intimidating. Stop buying coffee from Starbucks bada bing bada boom.

 

[eery]

From what ive heard its just more expensive and less of the benefits of GH, so just stick to GH imo.

 

[AlexDavis43]

From what ive heard its just more expensive and less of the benefits of GH, so just stick to GH imo.

It's just the lipolytic fraction of GH, so mg for mg it's more lipolytic than GH.

If it's too expensive for you that's fine but it's a different issue.

 

[Proud Pangolin]

A lot of both. Again this is just me and I'm not recommending it, but I like the results.

Worked up to 10 IU GH so that's always running in the background. Eventually I'll back down to 5 or 6, maybe after summer.

0.5-1 mg/d AOD. At 1 mg it seems like you don't need to be so mindful about diet. Leanness just happens. I don't know why it's not more popular. Maybe the price is intimidating. Stop buying coffee from Starbucks bada bing bada boom.

Thanks for the answer. Im going to try it

 

[hexagonal]

Doesn't do anything. They abandoned the research after spending millions because they found no effect in human trials. Lead researcher that ran the trials says it doesn't do anything and that the receptor it worked on in the rodent studies doesn't function the same way in humans.

What is the drug AOD-9604? › Ask an Expert (ABC Science) has some quotes from the researcher

If it worked they wouldn't have given up after sinking so much money into it and getting so far into the human trial process.

 

[AlexDavis43]

If it worked they wouldn't have given up after sinking so much money into it and getting so far into the human trial process.

I've seen that argument made about a few different compounds. I've also worked in pharma.

It might be true in some cases but some projects get canned with no clear reason. Coulda been bad timing, need to shift focus to something more immediately profitable, market trends, some guy was rude in a meeting or some other BS like that, etc., etc.

 

[hexagonal]

I've seen that argument made about a few different compounds. I've also worked in pharma.

It might be true in some cases but some projects get canned with no clear reason. Coulda been bad timing, need to shift focus to something more immediately profitable, market trends, some guy was rude in a meeting or some other BS like that, etc., etc.

They're still trying to find a use for AOD-9604 itself, though - they pivoted to seeing if it can help with tissue repair.

They definitely want it to be useful for something - but the evidence is pretty clear that something isn't lipolysis, and they even know why it doesn't work on humans for that.

 

[AlexDavis43]

They're still trying to find a use for AOD-9604 itself, though - they pivoted to seeing if it can help with tissue repair.

They definitely want it to be useful for something - but the evidence is pretty clear that something isn't lipolysis, and they even know why it doesn't work on humans for that.

"but the evidence is pretty clear"

Not sure if you're just reading this somewhere or you've actually reviewed the evidence yourself, but if it's the latter and you're interested, include the studies on hgh frag.

I'm not here trying to convince anyone to use this compound.