Are small caloric changes a waste?

[BabaJagga]

you dont produce your own test anymore. your testosterone is not dependent on fat you eat, but the oils you inject. Nutrition doesnt affect that.

isnt it needed for other hormones?
im not sure about all different proceses in human body but for sure we produce other than testosterone

anyway. i for example, feel better with at least 70-80g fat rather than 30-40 daily.
especially for first and last meal of the day. i like to have carb heavy meal before sleep but if its without fat, i tend to wake up in the middle of the night, sweating, HR sky high and fully awake in snap of fingers. maybe/ probably low sugar in blood. when i add fat to last meal, it doesnt happen.

 

[IndividualMan]

isnt it needed for other hormones?
im not sure about all different proceses in human body but for sure we produce other than testosterone

anyway. i for example, feel better with at least 70-80g fat rather than 30-40 daily.
especially for first and last meal of the day. i like to have carb heavy meal before sleep but if its without fat, i tend to wake up in the middle of the night, sweating, HR sky high and fully awake in snap of fingers. maybe/ probably low sugar in blood. when i add fat to last meal, it doesnt happen.

other stuff? get outta here with all that health talk. What is this, a harm reduction forum?

 

[BabaJagga]

other stuff? get outta here with all that health talk. What is this, a harm reduction forum?

heh im not sure about all different hormones and processes in man's body. i just know i function better with higher than lower fat intake. ive tried to go very low fat and carb heavy and i found myself goin out of energy quickly and being suuuper hungry or super filled and "gasping" after meals.
that could be probably sorted by better spredding my carbs into more meals but its not that practical (for now) for me.

 

[IndividualMan]

gasping

happens to me with high fat meals, especially griled meats. that shit takes my breath for hours.
generally, fat just does not agree with me, unless its some kinda fancy plant fat (avocado, fancy olive oil etc.).

 

[BabaJagga]

happens to me with high fat meals, especially griled meats. that shit takes my breath for hours.
generally, fat just does not agree with me, unless its some kinda fancy plant fat (avocado, fancy olive oil etc.).

funny how we are all different.

im addicted to cheese. parmesan and red mild cheddar. i could eat kilo of parmesan without anything

but for protein (99% of time its chicken breast) i can go 0 fat. just plain, dry chicken. im okay with that.

but for carbs, i need bit of fat with them. olive oil to coat uncooked rice, bit of butter to pasta and stuff like that. just small amount but cant go without it.

 

[eery]

you dont produce your own test anymore. your testosterone is not dependent on fat you eat, but the oils you inject. Nutrition doesnt affect that.

was that everything that made you dismiss all the recommendations in the paper?

Yes, that is right, as an enhanced athlete you are probably fine with 30-60g fats a day.




I think the rest of the topics covered and recommendations in the paper is useful information for both enhanced and natties though.

 

[IndividualMan]

I think the rest of the topics covered and recommendations in the paper is useful information for both enhanced and natties though.

1000%, its a good read. Dont think the people who desperately need it have the literacy and attention span required to truly take it all in, though.

 

[BabaJagga]

was that everything that made you dismiss all the recommendations in the paper?

Yes, that is right, as an enhanced athlete you are probably fine with 30-60g fats a day.




I think the rest of the topics covered and recommendations in the paper is useful information for both enhanced and natties though.

i always wonder if enhanced guys need more or less than ussual, 2,2g/kg of protein.
it probably wasnt studied much, right?

i remember one podcast with broderick chaves and he was talking about that enhanced guys need actually LESS protein cause if efficiency of drugs. that ceeling is lower

on the other hand, we have plenty of big guys in past and also present that eat like 300+ grams of protein from meat only. i think milos sarcev did 600+ daily. as well as ronnie.

what do you think about it?

 

[adrenalytic]

I think the rest of the topics covered and recommendations in the paper is useful information for both enhanced and natties though.

I was only referring to the small portion that I quoted. The rest was very valuable. I even copied and made a document with it that I'm going to share with clients. Thanks for doing that.

Yes, fat is needed for bile production and cellular function but that can be achieved with much lower fat intake.

 

[trtchin]

isnt it needed for other hormones?
im not sure about all different proceses in human body but for sure we produce other than testosterone

anyway. i for example, feel better with at least 70-80g fat rather than 30-40 daily.
especially for first and last meal of the day. i like to have carb heavy meal before sleep but if its without fat, i tend to wake up in the middle of the night, sweating, HR sky high and fully awake in snap of fingers. maybe/ probably low sugar in blood. when i add fat to last meal, it doesnt happen.

I find it really tough to go lower than 60g when eating a regular maintenance or bulking diet.

 

[BabaJagga]

I find it really tough to go lower than 60g when eating a regular maintenance or bulking diet.

yea, sure, its PITA.... i dont mind bit of fat gain so i have no issue with higher fats

 

[trtchin]

yea, sure, its PITA.... i dont mind bit of fat gain so i have no issue with higher fats

I count fat from all sources. Chicken breast, 5% ground beef, oats, bit of bread, avocado oil cooking spray, bit of light cream cheese, bit of light milk (just for 1 coffee), 6g fish oil, 2g soy lecitin and im at 60-70g pretty easy.

 

[BabaJagga]

I count fat from all sources. Chicken breast, 5% ground beef, oats, bit of bread, avocado oil cooking spray, bit of light cream cheese, bit of light milk (just for 1 coffee), 6g fish oil, 2g soy lecitin and im at 60-70g pretty easy.

yea and imagine loving parmesan and other milk products or nice red cheddar

 

[trtchin]

yea and imagine loving parmesan and other milk products or nice red cheddar

I love love dairy but I had to cut it out due to high cholesterol. Still allow a nice slice of cheddar couple times per week

 

[BabaJagga]

I love love dairy but I had to cut it out due to high cholesterol. Still allow a nice slice of cheddar couple times per week

im on 10mg of rosuva statin, ldl is under 55.
look into it, it will help a ton, even when poppin var like candy and blasting.

about cheddar, i need like 100g for THE perfect cheese sauce maybe once per weel i do that, its worth it

 

[trtchin]

im on 10mg of rosuva statin, ldl is under 55.
look into it, it will help a ton, even when poppin var like candy and blasting.

about cheddar, i need like 100g for THE perfect cheese sauce maybe once per weel i do that, its worth it

Im on 5mg + 10mg ezetimibe. Ldl is 35

Also consime 40g+ fiber per day including psyllium husk. But I still try to keep saturated fats low. I have a small arterial plaque buildup and am trying to reverse it

 

[eery]

i always wonder if enhanced guys need more or less than ussual, 2,2g/kg of protein.
it probably wasnt studied much, right?

i remember one podcast with broderick chaves and he was talking about that enhanced guys need actually LESS protein cause if efficiency of drugs. that ceeling is lower

on the other hand, we have plenty of big guys in past and also present that eat like 300+ grams of protein from meat only. i think milos sarcev did 600+ daily. as well as ronnie.

what do you think about it?

I think we can argue that we need less protein due to having better nutrient partitioning, higher nitrogen balance etc from the AAS that we can get more out of less protein compared to someone not using AAS, but we could also argue that we have a higher potential for utilizing more protein and benefitting from it.

I dont think theres much benefit from a pure muscle growth POV to eating much above 2.2-3g/kg protein from what ive seen, maybe even 1.8-2g/kg, but there might be additional benefits from an hunger management, body composition and recovery in general.

It also depends what the energy balance is, how much catabolism/protein turnover, exercise and stress the body is under. What drugs are being used that impact protein synthesis or breakdown and nutrient utilization. What the protein demands actually are and the need for different amino acids.

as a bodybuilder, i'd rather be on the safe side and overdo the protein.

 

[BabaJagga]

I think we can argue that we need less protein due to having better nutrient partitioning, higher nitrogen balance etc from the AAS that we can get more out of less protein compared to someone not using AAS, but we could also argue that we have a higher potential for utilizing more protein and benefitting from it.

I dont think theres much benefit from a pure muscle growth POV to eating much above 2.2-3g/kg protein from what ive seen, maybe even 1.8-2g/kg, but there might be additional benefits from an hunger management, body composition and recovery in general.

It also depends what the energy balance is, how much catabolism/protein turnover, exercise and stress the body is under. What drugs are being used that impact protein synthesis or breakdown and nutrient utilization. What the protein demands actually are and the need for different amino acids.

as a bodybuilder, i'd rather be on the safe side and overdo the protein.

its interesting topic and ive seen many heated debates about it. for me, i dont push above 2g/kg, i will rather eat more carbs.
unless im cutting (i like deeper deficit), then i try to stay closer to 3g/kg.

i dont think there are studies about enhanced men and protein requirements.
probably it would be hard to measure and there are endless possibilities with drugs.

i would say that in growth phase, its better to not overdo protein due to digestion and its better to eat more carbs.
in cut probably bit higher tho.

i remember jay cutler talkin about his high carb days, on those he had like 130-150g of protein per day. and was fckin huge.