Are These People Christians

[dolfe1]

the bible is a loosely-written document describing, more or less, a code of conduct. as such, its nature is one of control. it is loosely-written so that it may be adaptable to future times. think of the u.s. constitution. both are loosely-written in order to provide flexibility of interpretation for future generations.

the bible is a great collection of moral stories. if you can live your life by it, that's wonderful. if you can live a good, moral life without, imho, that is just as wonderful. in both cases, you will be a positive contribution to this world.

Chip IMO God gave man free will therefore the bibles nature is not that of control. Listen to your pops!

 

[chris gordon]

Wow! I miss one day on here and there's a 6 page thread that has taught me a lot. I'll just add that it's wrong to hate a person or group of people, period. And again, this was definitely a great thread. Peace to all.

and ive noticed that we all maintained our civility...which is impressive when considering the way a lot of our threads turn out

 

[dolfe1]

Whoops, y'all wrote a bunch of shit in the time I was typing a post. The "John Kerry I pulled on yo ass" was actually in response to Chris Gordon's post that began "i guess if you believe we spontaneously rose from the dust of the earth, with no rhyme or reason to our creation,other than numerical probability , then perhaps there is no greater meaning..."

My reasoning against the authoritativeness of the bible. We've discussed this, but there are many innacuracies, dating the earth as being way too young, etc.. No mention of dinosaurs
Moreover, it's more of an argument against the authoritativeness of religion in general. As I've said before, the Navajo religion attributed earth quakes to an "earth quake monster." We laugh at this and at all the perceived folly to be found in the polytheistic tradtions of Rome, the Celts, the Norse, etc.

Much of this is because science has proven concepts such as an "earth quake monster" to be false and riddiculous.

What about the other religions of the world. Claiming only the bible or the koran or the mahabahrata to be the "word of the one and only god and the true religion of the world" is what leads to shit like 9/11 and the crap that's going on in the Mid-East today.

If the argument is posed that it could be true(the Bible) then so could any of the other major religions. I haven't found any proof of any of them or of any correctness of one over the other.

I also know that many people don't like the concept of being descended from apes. Personally, I'm much rather be the descendant of an ape than the infinitely inbred descendant of Adam and Eve.

dinosaurs

"Look at the behemoth, which I made along with you and which feed on grass like an ox. What strength he has in his loins, what power in the muscles of his belly! His tail sways like a cedar; the sinews of his thighs are close-knit. His bones are tubes of bronze, his limbs like rods of iron. He ranks first among the works of God..."
-Job 40:15-19

dating the earth as being way too young

Specify please.

 

[garyzilla]

Where to start. This thead has more posts than my "The Passion of the Christ" thread. I am suprized that noone had asked what the pastor thinks of all this. First, the whole evolution-vs-ceation debate. Accutally this is a passion of mine, always liked the topic. It would take many many posts to comment on this topic. So what I will do for those that are interested is give some books that will show you why creation is correct. These books are written by people who grauated from Yale, Harvard, and the like.

How many people on this board believe the Bible is the infallible word of God himself? (i.e. It is never wrong, never inaccurate, and everything literally happened, such as the Noah Flood and Parting of the Red Sea). I am just curious.

This is a good question, that I will anwser and put and end to this debate. Only the original autographs are infallible,inerrant, perfect in everyway. The term we use is "Verbal Plenary Inspiration" meaning all the words (verbal) of Scripture are equally (plenary) God-breathed in the original autographs.

Here is the kicker, our Bible of today HAS errors in it. I can point them out to you, but the textual variants are NOT in the areas of doctrine ot theology, but are primarily word order and spellling issues. There are some word choice differences in the various texts however, No Biblical doctrine is at risk because these of texual variants. Many of the KJV or TR only postions wrongly believe that doctrine has been compromised, and some assume the inspiration of the TR or KJV.

One has to do a study on "Textual Criticism" to understand this debate in full. Once you do, you will see how right the Bible is.

Here is the thing that I hate, yes, hate. I hate it when people comment on something they have no business commenting on because they have never taken the time to fully read about it, or study it out. I hear people say the Bible is not true, and when I ask then if they have every read the Bible they say No. I then tell that people stop wasting my time.

 

[dolfe1]

And curing the common cold seems to be under control as well. And if Magic Johnson didn't exist i would agree with the fact that there is no cure for AIDS. For now i think it's just available for the wealthy.

Ace.

Who was it that was talking about conspiracy theories? Yea their hiding the cure for AIDS, thats funny. Ace look up the difference between treatment and cure.

 

[Phreezer]

No shit.. the worst flu epidemic in decades with a fairly high mortality rate..and "It's under control" lol.. and Magic Johnson...lol...Uhhhh.. why don't you go to south africa and tell the ten's of thousands of people that are wasting away with this disease that there really is a cure for aids..just look at magic johnson...

The truth of that is it's believed that about 10 percent of the population will only be carriers of the disease that in all probability they will never contract aids..but be HIV posistive for the rest of their life..

 

[Bob Smith]

Id like to see any species where adding genetic matieral has resulted in a beneficial gain to that species or created a new species. What happens when you add a single chromosome to a human? They have birth defects, brain issues, and other health problems.

Phreezer, I think in the end, this years flu season was no worse than any other in recent history.

Thinking of the flu and evolution, it mutates and changes and does all sorts of incredible things, but does it ever become something other than the flu?

 

[Grizzly]

Haha, Bob, I told you. If Hogg says it's so, then it is. haha!

I'll try and be more in depth manana when it's not 3 am. Anyhow, "
"Look at the behemoth, which I made along with you and which feed on grass like an ox. What strength he has in his loins, what power in the muscles of his belly! His tail sways like a cedar; the sinews of his thighs are close-knit. His bones are tubes of bronze, his limbs like rods of iron. He ranks first among the works of God..."
-Job 40:15-19 "

As to what this refers to, I can't completely say. Bears, alligators(damn good case for this), etc. The fact remains that, despite Hollywood depictions, dinosaurs and man never coexisted. Therefore, something that was "made alongside man" can not be dinosaurs.

The dating of the earth... As Mark pointed out, fundamentalists believe the earth to be less than 10k years old. Being that I'm not a biblical scholar, I can't cite you chapter and verse. However, somewheres in there is the justification of this belief.

 

[dolfe1]

Haha, Bob, I told you. If Hogg says it's so, then it is. haha!

I'll try and be more in depth manana when it's not 3 am. Anyhow, "
"Look at the behemoth, which I made along with you and which feed on grass like an ox. What strength he has in his loins, what power in the muscles of his belly! His tail sways like a cedar; the sinews of his thighs are close-knit. His bones are tubes of bronze, his limbs like rods of iron. He ranks first among the works of God..."
-Job 40:15-19 "

As to what this refers to, I can't completely say. Bears, alligators(damn good case for this), etc. The fact remains that, despite Hollywood depictions, dinosaurs and man never coexisted. Therefore, something that was "made alongside man" can not be dinosaurs.

The dating of the earth... As Mark pointed out, fundamentalists believe the earth to be less than 10k years old. Being that I'm not a biblical scholar, I can't cite you chapter and verse. However, somewheres in there is the justification of this belief.

There is a difference between along with and alongside. Alongside would mean the same time period, along with does not necessarily mean the same time period.

God does not live within time, the earth could very well be millions of years old and still be in accordance with the bible, it's all about interpretation. What is a day. What is a day to man, what is a day to God? I don't believe this is within our comprehension. The bible does give you a concept though. (II Peter 3:8) But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

 

[garyzilla]

Haha, Bob, I told you. If Hogg says it's so, then it is. haha!

I'll try and be more in depth manana when it's not 3 am. Anyhow, "
"Look at the behemoth, which I made along with you and which feed on grass like an ox. What strength he has in his loins, what power in the muscles of his belly! His tail sways like a cedar; the sinews of his thighs are close-knit. His bones are tubes of bronze, his limbs like rods of iron. He ranks first among the works of God..."
-Job 40:15-19 "

As to what this refers to, I can't completely say. Bears, alligators(damn good case for this), etc. The fact remains that, despite Hollywood depictions, dinosaurs and man never coexisted. Therefore, something that was "made alongside man" can not be dinosaurs.

The dating of the earth... As Mark pointed out, fundamentalists believe the earth to be less than 10k years old. Being that I'm not a biblical scholar, I can't cite you chapter and verse. However, somewheres in there is the justification of this belief.

Grizzly, the term "dinosaur" is a new term. The term was not coined untill the 1870's or so. The term Dinosaur means "Terrible Lizard". So if you are looking for the term in the Bible or any other book before 1870, you will not find it.

 

[garyzilla]

There is a difference between along with and alongside. Alongside would mean the same time period, along with does not necessarily mean the same time period.

God does not live within time, the earth could very well be millions of years old and still be in accordance with the bible, it's all about interpretation. What is a day. What is a day to man, what is a day to God? I don't believe this is within our comprehension. The bible does give you a concept though. (II Peter 3:8) But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Dolfe1, the verse II 3:8 means that God is not held to time. "A 1000 years is like a day, and a day, is like a 1000 years" they cancel each other out.

 

[dolfe1]

Dolfe1, the verse II 3:8 means that God is not held to time. "A 1000 years is like a day, and a day, is like a 1000 years" they cancel each other out.

OK......thanks for agreeing.

 

[thick]

so are we agreeing that 2nd cousin is ok? 1st if you are drunk?

Nick in one step ahead of you, ill be the first person pimpin my faimly reunion.

 

[CyniQ]

There is, but don't act for one second that it is the property of Chrtistian mythos. That story is in multiple religion's mythos.

That's an interesting point Grizz Egyptians, Greeks, Chinese, Druids, Polynesians, etc. all have such stories. The bible says that after the flood of Noah's day people attempted to defy God. Lead by Nimrod, they tried to build a tower (Babel) reaching the heavens. This angered God, he confused their languages and scattered them to the ends of the earth (Genesis 11:9). Surely they would've taken the stories of a worldwide flood with them. The fact that so many cultures exist with this legend of a great flood strongly suggests that all of mankind shared a common origin.

 

[Chip Bronson]

The fact that so many cultures exist with this legend of a great flood strongly suggests that all of mankind shared a common origin.

or it could just mean that as people traveled (certainly not as much as they travel now, but some people did travel for varying reasons e.g. commerce, exile, etc.) from one part of the world to another, they brought their 'tales' with them. these 'tales' got incorporated with the indigenous folklore over time.

 

[CyniQ]

or it could just mean that as people traveled (certainly not as much as they travel now, but some people did travel for varying reasons e.g. commerce, exile, etc.) from one part of the world to another, they brought their 'tales' with them. these 'tales' got incorporated with the indigenous folklore over time.

Maybe. But keep in mind we're talking 2730 B.C.E. The earliest transatlantic voyagers I know of were the vikings (someone more educated than myself may have other info), they "discovered" North America sometime between 750 and 1050 A.D. Other groups who have flood legends that I failed to mentioned before are Native Americans, Eskimos, Greenlanders, and Africans. In addition to those stories, I think its interesting that we find ancient "pyramids" and heiroglyphic writings from Africa to South America.

 

[Chip Bronson]

Maybe. But keep in mind we're talking 2730 B.C.E. The earliest transatlantic voyagers I know of were the vikings (someone more educated than myself may have other info), they "discovered" North America sometime between 750 and 1050 A.D. Other groups who have flood legends that I failed to mentioned before are Native Americans, Eskimos, Greenlanders, and Africans. In addition to those stories, I think its interesting that we find ancient "pyramids" and heiroglyphic writings from Africa to South America.

the first 'documented' trans-atlantic voyagers were the vikings. others may traveled trans-continentally long before that. for example, it certainly is conceivable that people may have traveled from the north american continent to asia and europe, and from there to africa, via the bering strait. with a distance of approximately 50 miles, it's possible that peoples made the trek from either side to the other thus spreading their 'culture' and folklore. this would account for your 'ancient "pyramids" and heiroglyphic writings from Africa to South America.'

 

[CyniQ]

the first 'documented' trans-atlantic voyagers were the vikings. others may traveled trans-continentally long before that. for example, it certainly is conceivable that people may have traveled from the north american continent to asia and europe, and from there to africa, via the bering strait. with a distance of approximately 50 miles, it's possible that peoples made the trek from either side to the other thus spreading their 'culture' and folklore. this would account for your 'ancient "pyramids" and heiroglyphic writings from Africa to South America.'

[sigh] Fine. Let's just do all the things that YOU want to do!

 

[Chip Bronson]

[sigh] Fine. Let's just do all the things that YOU want to do!

it's not like that at all. if you come up with irrefutable propostition, hell, i'll second it bro. but you haven't done that yet.

 

[Hogg]

Haha, Bob, I told you. If Hogg says it's so, then it is. haha!

Stick with me kid, you'll do alright