Are we just trusting that everyone is getting proper test troughs?

[marsupial]

Would you say most people ordering test levels are actually ordering test troughs (ie timing draws to be right before the next scheduled injection), or is it likely that a huge portion of them aren’t getting actual troughs drawn?

No one needs to time it to the exact hour, but I wouldn’t be surprised if people are just getting blood drawn whatever day they want without considering their injection schedule. Really makes you wonder if the high responders are actually as high of responders as they think

 

[LeroyJenkins]

I pin eod so I either draw on an off day or wait until after the draw to pin. Not much of a trough with eod injections so it really doesn't matter much in my case...

 

[Avarice911]

I pin eod so I either draw on an off day or wait until after the draw to pin. Not much of a trough with eod injections so it really doesn't matter much in my case...

I do EOD as well and treat blood draw timing the same as you. I’m mostly concerned with other health markers and estradiol. My test level is fairly arbitrary to me as long as I feel good

 

[Rido]

Would you say most people ordering test levels are actually ordering test troughs (ie timing draws to be right before the next scheduled injection), or is it likely that a huge portion of them aren’t getting actual troughs drawn?

No one needs to time it to the exact hour, but I wouldn’t be surprised if people are just getting blood drawn whatever day they want without considering their injection schedule. Really makes you wonder if the high responders are actually as high of responders as they think

I definitely agree with this. Can get a midpoint for test which is fine, but alot of people who get peak test and call themself a 10x responder

 

[T&H]

I run Test E and always draw around 44 hours post pin, to compare all my bloodwork against. Gonna assume that's close to trough, because I usually get 4 to 5x.

Pin e3.5 days, have stuck to it for years.

 

[RiceNKimchi]

You should trust everyone is an idiot

 

[marsupial]

I pin eod so I either draw on an off day or wait until after the draw to pin. Not much of a trough with eod injections so it really doesn't matter much in my case...

Isn't there still gonna be a significant difference between the off day and "waiting until after draw to pin" day. I am curious how those compared. Have you ever obtained something close to a peak measurment?

 

[marsupial]

I do EOD as well and treat blood draw timing the same as you. I’m mostly concerned with other health markers and estradiol. My test level is fairly arbitrary to me as long as I feel good

If you're cruising or take TRT, I'd say the peaks and troughs are both pretty significant. Peak of 900 and trough of 700 is quite different from peak of 700 and trough of 500 for holding onto gains. The latter is typical natty test in anyone at a healthy body fat less than age 45 or so

 

[marsupial]

I run Test E and always draw around 44 hours post pin, to compare all my bloodwork against. Gonna assume that's close to trough, because I usually get 4 to 5x.

Pin e3.5 days, have stuck to it for years.

44 hours post pin draw
pins every ~84 hours

That's not very close to your trough man. I bet if you drew right before your next scheduled pin, you'd see you're more of a 3-4x multiplier. Also that's test E, the half life is 5d, so even in a matter of 1d there will be some noticeable decrease. Have you compared the two (ie 44 hours post pin to 84 hours post pin)? Maybe I'm wrong

 

[marsupial]

I definitely agree with this. Can get a midpoint for test which is fine, but alot of people who get peak test and call themself a 10x responder

Would you say the standard is a mean or is it a trough?

 

[Rido]

Would you say the standard is a mean or is it a trough?

If you know how to interpret a mean can be fine. Otherwise a trough may be more beneficial

 

[-Maui-]

Hey, guys!
What's stopping you from doing two tests?
One after 24 hours, one before the next injection?
Evaluation in dynamics, what could be better?

 

[marsupial]

Hey, guys!
What's stopping you from doing two tests?
One after 24 hours, one before the next injection?
Evaluation in dynamics, what could be better?

Most steroid users can’t be assed to get bloods at all. A minority get them in the first place. And likely a much smaller minority are willing to go through the hassle of multiple blood draws close in time to one another. It’s not necessarily that easy to get bloods with most people’s work schedules. Most quest centers aren’t open at all on weekends

 

[buck]

I have done tests at different times to see what is happening. I peak 2 days after i inject when doing weekly injects then drop till i pin again. Do daily now and i stay pretty level.

 

[T&H]

44 hours post pin draw
pins every ~84 hours

That's not very close to your trough man. I bet if you drew right before your next scheduled pin, you'd see you're more of a 3-4x multiplier. Also that's test E, the half life is 5d, so even in a matter of 1d there will be some noticeable decrease. Have you compared the two (ie 44 hours post pin to 84 hours post pin)? Maybe I'm wrong

No, Why should I wait until hours before my pin to draw bloodwork, when I established a protocol 6 years ago I use to compare results against? Where are you getting the trough is the only time users should draw bloodwork?

 

[Deskoze38192]

It was different when I did weekly injections but now I pin ED on blast and EoD on cruise.
Either way I get bloodwork furthest from last pin as possible. I pin in the morning so I schedule earliest morning appointment and wait to pin till after I get blood drawn. Also with ED or EoD the doses are much smaller than one bolus weekly dose obviously.

 

[marsupial]

No, Why should I wait until hours before my pin to draw bloodwork, when I established a protocol 6 years ago I use to compare results against? Where are you getting the trough is the only time users should draw bloodwork?

Whatever floats your boat but in terms of comparing bloods and response to drugs to those of other people, I have seen touted here that using trough measurements are ideal. Theoretically if you’re blasting, you’d want to low-ball your TT level to get an idea of how good your response to the drug is “on its worst days”

You also said “I’m gonna assume that’s close to trough” and that was an incorrect assumption, so I also had to point that out and give reasoning for why

 

[marsupial]

If you know how to interpret a mean can be fine. Otherwise a trough may be more beneficial

The thing is the concentration curve of any drug isn’t linear, it’s logarithmic and concave up, so it’ll decrease fastest at the initial time directly post injection, and then the rate of decrease becomes lower, so I’d argue that attempting to pinpoint the mean or any other central tendency measurement is more prone to error than troughing…especially if you’re comparing your response to different cycles that you personally do

 

[T&H]

Whatever floats your boat but in terms of comparing bloods and response to drugs to those of other people, I have seen touted here that using trough measurements are ideal. Theoretically if you’re blasting, you’d want to low-ball your TT level to get an idea of how good your response to the drug is “on its worst days”

You also said “I’m gonna assume that’s close to trough” and that was an incorrect assumption, so I also had to point that out and give reasoning for why

Yeah well I made that comment because I never cared to know, it's irrelevant. Whether I draw at 40 or 84 hours post pin changes nothing. Of course waiting 84 hours will result in a much lower reading.

As long as guys don't draw at drastic different times on same ester and attempt to make conclusions about their source, doesn't matter much. I think one should stick with a set draw time though personally.

 

[Rido]

The thing is the concentration curve of any drug isn’t linear, it’s logarithmic and concave up, so it’ll decrease fastest at the initial time directly post injection, and then the rate of decrease becomes lower, so I’d argue that attempting to pinpoint the mean or any other central tendency measurement is more prone to error than troughing…especially if you’re comparing your response to different cycles that you personally do

It isn't linear but as long as it isn't peaked, it should be fine enough to find my general range.


Worried about too many small details to be honest.
My response to different cycles? Based off of what? My test levels?


Making mountains out of mole hills.