Aspirin daily to prevent blood clots

[-Maui-]

I developed a clot in my lung after my first cycle and PCT & a few months after that i got on TRT from my Dr and I clotted within the first month of TRT. I had all blood work done & everything was within range and considered normal.

Possible the clot started when I hurt my ankle / achilles or when I had a nasty viral infection and cough or was the TRT, we might never know. I see a hematologist shortly and will be honest with my AAS history and see what he says. not to hijack thread but I will update after I see the hematologist because taking a daily aspirin is a question I wanted to ask if I continue on TRT if I am even allowed.

Keep in touch!

 

[borkies]

New guy here, long time lurker. I had a bit of a scare recently, used EQ for the first time in cycle and my HCT jumped to 57 at 6 weeks in. I usually hover around 49. This was 3 weeks ago.

I dropped the EQ from 400 down to 300, and added in 81mg Aspirin in the AM and another 81mg at bedtime - and increased my cardio from 30 mins 4x per week to 30 mins daily.

Happy to report that my HCT came back this morning at 50.

I'm very curious about nattokinase, I think if I ever do another EQ cycle I will start with nattokinase on day 1 and see how my HCT goes. I've also heard that possibly EQ can shoot up HCT at first and then it can taper off? Never run this before so I don't know if this is normal or not.

I'm just happy to not be repositioning myself in bed all the time at night afraid that I'll clot if I cut off my circulation in any way, or terrified of waking up dead. Thanks for the info here everyone.

 

[Juicedhead]

yes, i take a baby aspirin every morning to help keep the blood thin on cycle, youd be surprised how much that shit thins your blood. I tested it i checked my blood sugar and it def is thinner when i take the aspirin every morning. highly recommend guys that take a lot of gear and run thick blood take it it will help your heart in the long run ive noticed no downside

 

[Deleted member 127229]

Been on 81mg aspirin since the day I asked this question, already feeling better. Blood flowing easier when donating and high rbc symptoms have minimized some.

 

[Juicedhead]

Been on 81mg aspirin since the day I asked this question, already feeling better. Blood flowing easier when donating and high rbc symptoms have minimized some.

nice! Yea man its an over looked thing but having high hct and thick blood equals heart stress which equals not feeling that good. Just remeber not to taje it on an empty stomach cuz it can cause stomach problems always take after a meal.

 

[Vanargandar]

nice! Yea man its an over looked thing but having high hct and thick blood equals heart stress which equals not feeling that good. Just remeber not to taje it on an empty stomach cuz it can cause stomach problems always take after a meal.

Can confirm. I always take mine at night along with my Telmisartan after my last meal.

 

[borkies]

nice! Yea man its an over looked thing but having high hct and thick blood equals heart stress which equals not feeling that good. Just remeber not to taje it on an empty stomach cuz it can cause stomach problems always take after a meal.

Agreed - it's crazy how one can "feel" HCT/RBC issues... just feels shitty. Also my skin kept getting all itchy and burny/red.

 

[Juicedhead]

Agreed - it's crazy how one can "feel" HCT/RBC issues... just feels shitty. Also my skin kept getting all itchy and burny/red.

i know man it took me so damn long to figure out why i just felt sluggish and not 100% looking back i feel like a dumbass because once i figured it out i was like god damn i feel so much better now!! freaking always tell guys about the hct rbc issues now that gear causes that goes over looked so often. and the caridoligist told me that having thick blood like that realy cause cardiomegly and is very hard on your heart just because its tougher to pump the blood when its thicker

 

[Juicedhead]

Can confirm. I always take mine at night along with my Telmisartan after my last meal.

ihave heard telmisartan is really good what is it for exactly?

 

[Vanargandar]

ihave heard telmisartan is really good what is it for exactly?

It's a BP medication first and foremost, but it has a host of other benefits as well. You can Google "Telmisartan [insert health condition] PubMed" and find a bunch of different studies showing efficacy for things like asthma/COPD, insulin resistance, etc.

Telmisartan: just an antihypertensive agent? A literature review - PubMed
Telmisartan Improves Insulin Resistance: A Meta-Analysis - PubMed

EDIT: It also plays a role in reducing LVH, which as people that use AAS and exercise frequently, we should be paying close attention to: Regression of left ventricular hypertrophy and improvement of diastolic function in hypertensive patients treated with telmisartan - PubMed.

 

[connoristiny]

Fish oil on its own, and through its own mechanisms, unrelated to aspirin, increases the risk of stroke, hemorrhage, cardiac events etc. As a result, it's probably not good to combine fish oil and aspirin, but people do it.

I don't think people should take fish oil, at all. If people want these fatty acids, they should eat cold water fish.

Aspirin has been the target of hate campaigns for the last 80 years or maybe longer.

This is a great article.

Aspirin, brain, and cancer

Ray Peat

raypeat.com

what? I read everywhere fish oil does the opposite.

 

[connoristiny]

Nattokinase is the way.

Nattokinase: An Oral Antithrombotic Agent for the Prevention of Cardiovascular Disease - PMC

Natto, a fermented soybean product, has been consumed as a traditional food in Japan for thousands of years. Nattokinase (NK), a potent blood-clot dissolving protein used for the treatment of cardiovascular diseases, is produced by the bacterium ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Can baby aspirin replace nattokinase? Or does nattokinase offer additional benefits? Dosen't seem necessary to take both.

 

[Vanargandar]

Can baby aspirin replace nattokinase? Or does nattokinase offer additional benefits? Dosen't seem necessary to take both.

I'm not 100% sure on this myself. I'd be curious if @Type-IIx has any knowledge to offer on the topic.

 

[Type-IIx]

I'm not 100% sure on this myself. I'd be curious if @Type-IIx has any knowledge to offer on the topic.

@connoristiny Nattokinase is a fibrinolytic agent, meaning that it breaks down blood clots. It works by increasing production of tissue plasminogen activator.

Interestingly, the attenuated 17AAs, especially stanozolol & dehydrochloromethyltestosterone (Winstrol & OT), are also fibrinolytic, and work by decreasing production of tissue plasminogen inhibitor.

Aspirin is a COX inhibitor, that ↓thrombotic but ↑bleeding risk.

Since blood viscosity is a function of, among other factors, both hemoglobin & fibrinogen, these two factors act jointly but separately as terms within a product to determine blood viscosity, and so, the use of both Nattokinase & Aspirin together would reduce blood viscosity greater than one alone.

I am of the opinion, but have not really delved into it, that the genesis of a thromboembolic event caused by AAS, for which the absolute risk is very low given moderate erythrocytosis, is probably less related to the tissue/vessel damage and inflammation that fibrinogen elevations indicate, and is instead more related to red cell production. An exception might be in the case of low grade UGL gear, where inflammatory response might cause such tissue/vessel damage.

 

[borkies]

So if I understand correctly - if I can get my HCT/RBC into healthy range with nattokinase instead of aspirin, that is preferable as aspirin increases risk of bleeding? I wonder if instead of my twice daily aspirin I'd be better off with 1x aspirin and 1x nattokinase. Kinda scared to test that theory though, will probably leave well enough alone on this blast and then revisit this next blast (if I ever run EQ again, which seems to really badly affect my HCT/RBC).

 

[Type-IIx]

So if I understand correctly - if I can get my HCT/RBC into healthy range with nattokinase instead of aspirin, that is preferable as aspirin increases risk of bleeding? I wonder if instead of my twice daily aspirin I'd be better off with 1x aspirin and 1x nattokinase. Kinda scared to test that theory though, will probably leave well enough alone on this blast and then revisit this next blast (if I ever run EQ again, which seems to really badly affect my HCT/RBC).

I don't think we can say that one is clearly preferable to the other under normal circumstances, meaning that you are free from some bleeding disorder or some condition that is conducive to bleeding, such as going under the knife for surgery).

On the one hand, Nattokinase is being investigated for potential antihyperlipidemic effects that, if borne out, would be good for us; suggesting that it's preferable to Aspirin.

But Aspirin does more than COX inhibition. It is also a prostaglandin inhibitor that decreases RAAS activation, which can be of benefit while using aromatizable AAS since estrogens activate RAAS mostly by acting on aldosterone. Besides this indirect effect via estrogens, several AAS act directly on aldosterone, e.g., oxymetholone down-regulates its activity, whereas e.g., drostanolone up-regulates it. Aspirin has mild antidiabetic effects on par with DNP, so minor that they're almost irrelevant.

Honestly, Nattokinase though? Why is this in your supplement stack to begin with? Did someone claim that this was the Holy Grail of harm reduction or something recently?

In the grand scheme, neither of these drugs is going to move the needle much with respect to overall risk from AAS use.

 

[readalot]

Nattokinase is the way.

Nattokinase: An Oral Antithrombotic Agent for the Prevention of Cardiovascular Disease - PMC

Natto, a fermented soybean product, has been consumed as a traditional food in Japan for thousands of years. Nattokinase (NK), a potent blood-clot dissolving protein used for the treatment of cardiovascular diseases, is produced by the bacterium ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Effects of nattokinase, a pro-fibrinolytic enzyme, on red blood cell aggregation and whole blood viscosity - IOS Press

The vegetable cheese-like food, natto, is extremely popular in Japan with a history extending back over 1000 years. A fibrinolytic enzyme, termed nattokinase, can be extracted from natto; the enzyme is a subtilisin-like serine protease composed of 27

content.iospress.com

10,000 FU daily seems to have promise on multiple fronts.

Effective management of atherosclerosis progress and hyperlipidemia with nattokinase: A clinical study with 1,062 participants

Nattokinase (NK), known as a potent fibrinolytic and antithrombotic agent, has been shown to have antiatherosclerotic and lipid-lowering effects. However, data on human clinical studies are limited. In this clinical study involving 1,062 participants, ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[readalot]

Since blood viscosity is a function of, among other factors, both hemoglobin & fibrinogen, these two factors act jointly but separately as terms within a product

Nice.

Hatschek's formula

Hematocrit drives Blood Viscosity- Does that Matter in Men on TRT? Effect of Altitude? - Excel Male Health Forum

Hi ExcelMale folks, I wanted to start off by expressing my gratitude for this site, all of the amazing work that has been put in to make this place such a great source of information. I would expect no less from a chemical engineer :). I've been following this "debate" about how...

www.excelmale.com

Role of plasma viscosity almost never highlighted properly.

 

[Tbaz192]

Agreed - it's crazy how one can "feel" HCT/RBC issues... just feels shitty. Also my skin kept getting all itchy and burny/red.

Newbie here lol. I’m right there with you. I was feeling sluggish, weak, & overall just shitty. So I got labs done asap and my HCT and cholesterol were all over the place. You can definitely feel it! I Gotta keep up on the blood donation, going to try the 81mg aspirin route for sure.

 

[Mishka]

Talk to your doctor before using telmisartan together with aspirin. Combining these medications may reduce the effects of telmisartan in lowering blood pressure.

> That is the reason why I stopped taking a baby aspirin every night.