Best form for dips?

[tenpoundsleft]

Question about dip form.
I'm always going for deep dips, shoulders below elbow. Face as far forward as I can.
I've gotten to using bw +45lb for at least 8 clean reps. Then I switch to 35 and finally to just bw (I weigh 200 exactly, 6' tall) and do about 12-15 to finish.
Hoping to keep at this and maybe one day get to be able to use two 45s, we'll see.
Here's the question - I see most guys doing shallow dips, never going even to elbow level, what's with that? Even some serious lifters that outweigh me by an easy 20 or 40lbs.
Isn't that bad form? What's the point with these shallow dips?
And if you have any advice on best way to progress with dips, open to ideas. For some reason, I really enjoy dips.

 

[weighted chinup]

I've been using weighted dips as my main push movement for a while now. I would always suggest that for movements like this that ROM be adjusted for pain / discomfort, and weighted dips are a movement that causes discomfort in a good number of people from what I've seen so that could be one explanation for lifters using a dramatically reduced ROM on it.

IME it's actually pretty hard to gauge depth on weighted dips at first so if a lifter isn't accustomed to the lift and taking it through the full ROM they might not realize what their ROM actually looks like.

Another is that it's mostly used as an accessory movement or in some cases just an arms exercise for many lifters so it's not given much thought, In this case it can still be effective even if ROM is reduced, you just won't be good through the ROM you're not going through. Not a problem if it's just an accessory or just another tricep / chest exercise in your training as you will still be able to grow doing it like this.

There is absolutely a limit to how deep I would go though, but generally speaking this will cause a noticeable amount of discomfort if done with weight so you'll know pretty easily.

As far as form, I think the typical 'tricep' style of doing weighted dips is ideal even for chest growth. This is where you're arm position on the dip bars is parallel or close and trying to stay upright. I'm not a fan of the 'chest' style of doing them, bad for shoulders and I think even shittier for chest.

 

[tenpoundsleft]

I've been using weighted dips as my main push movement for a while now. I would always suggest that for movements like this that ROM be adjusted for pain / discomfort, and weighted dips are a movement that causes discomfort in a good number of people from what I've seen so that could be one explanation for lifters using a dramatically reduced ROM on it.

IME it's actually pretty hard to gauge depth on weighted dips at first so if a lifter isn't accustomed to the lift and taking it through the full ROM they might not realize what their ROM actually looks like.

Another is that it's mostly used as an accessory movement or in some cases just an arms exercise for many lifters so it's not given much thought, In this case it can still be effective even if ROM is reduced, you just won't be good through the ROM you're not going through. Not a problem if it's just an accessory or just another tricep / chest exercise in your training as you will still be able to grow doing it like this.

There is absolutely a limit to how deep I would go though, but generally speaking this will cause a noticeable amount of discomfort if done with weight so you'll know pretty easily.

As far as form, I think the typical 'tricep' style of doing weighted dips is ideal even for chest growth. This is where you're arm position on the dip bars is parallel or close and trying to stay upright. I'm not a fan of the 'chest' style of doing them, bad for shoulders and I think even shittier for chest.

Thanks for the reply.

When you say "chest style" do you mean elbows angled out, or doing them with a wider grip, or going deep in the ROM?

My gym has mirrors well placed so easy to see how deep I go.

I tried the short ROM that some of the guys use, but it feels fairly pointless.

 

[TANGO.ECHO.KILO]

I always try to keep as vertically upright as possible and deep as possible.
Slightly more shallow when weighted heavy to avoid shoulder discomfort...

leaning farther forward recruits more chest I believe

 

[weighted chinup]

Thanks for the reply.

When you say "chest style" do you mean elbows angled out, or doing them with a wider grip, or going deep in the ROM?

My gym has mirrors well placed so easy to see how deep I go.

I tried the short ROM that some of the guys use, but it feels fairly pointless.

The 'chest' style is usually considered doing them with a much wider and usually slightly cambered grip and more forward lean, whereas the tricep way has your upper body in a more upright position through the descent, and arm position on the bars is parallel and usually closer.

I like the tricep style better even for chest development, but IME once the weight gets heavier your individual preference becomes more important for the sake of comfort. I don't see the very wide grip and aggressive leaning of the upper body that usually comes with the chest style of doing dips as ever being ideal though, especially as the weight gets heavier.

My grip is somewhere in between the two but I try and stay as upright as possible through the descent.

 

[gr8whitetrukker]

I agree the wide stance chest style of dips where your bent over is real tough on the shoulders. At least for me. When I do dips I prefer the narrow upright style. Even at my bw I can bust 25 on my first set. Full ROM. as I weaken each successive set I WILL reduce ROM to ensure I'm getting the needed tension. Excellent especially for triceps

 

[gr8whitetrukker]

A similar technique can be employed in other exercises. I will some times load up a flat bench with 400+ and use explosive power to move the bar from sitting on my chest to maybe 4 inches above. Making a point to not extend my elbows. Just using raw explosive power out of the hole and back down. A very quick successive rep style. A spotter is a must

Or for example a bicep curl. Using a very heavy weight like 150 on the straight bar and using third movements at the contracted position. The most difficult position. Have the spotter lift the weight back to the starting position when failure is reached.

Really can apply it to most except I would say squats which isn't a good idea to perform this way

 

[ErikR]

The chest style is great. My lower pecs always sucked. Decline didn't do shit for me. As soon as I started doing weighted dips for chest my over all chest really got better. It could be my body mechanics or whatever but all I know is it worked for me.

 

[tenpoundsleft]

A similar technique can be employed in other exercises. I will some times load up a flat bench with 400+ and use explosive power to move the bar from sitting on my chest to maybe 4 inches above. Making a point to not extend my elbows. Just using raw explosive power out of the hole and back down. A very quick successive rep style. A spotter is a must

Or for example a bicep curl. Using a very heavy weight like 150 on the straight bar and using third movements at the contracted position. The most difficult position. Have the spotter lift the weight back to the starting position when failure is reached.

Really can apply it to most except I would say squats which isn't a good idea to perform this way

Good suggestions - except I don't have a spotter - always work out alone. Maybe that's why I like weighted dips so much. Safe way to work to fatigue.

 

[gr8whitetrukker]

Good suggestions - except I don't have a spotter - always work out alone. Maybe that's why I like weighted dips so much. Safe way to work to fatigue.

Most will be fine to offer a quick spot. I know I do. It takes what 15 seconds outta my gym time? It's not like your doing set after set of this kinds training. Usually done 1 or 2 sets. If you can't ask a regular for a quick spot then your gym sucks

 

[tenpoundsleft]

Most will be fine to offer a quick spot. I know I do. It takes what 15 seconds outta my gym time? It's not like your doing set after set of this kinds training. Usually done 1 or 2 sets. If you can't ask a regular for a quick spot then your gym sucks

True - I should - maybe it's my inherent distrust in the ability of other people to do any job right.

 

[romaleos]

First and foremost if there is pain in the shoulder/elbow then you need to find a more comfortable ROM.

Then I look at the applicability to your sport. A good example is squats. Do you need to rock bottom ass to grass? Hell yeah if you're an Olympic weightlifter, not so much if you're a power lifter, and quarter squats would suffice for bodybuilding (i.e. Ronnie Coleman).

I'd think that dips are the same. Does your shoulders need to pass your elbows? Hell yeah if you're a gymnast, not so much if you're a crossfitter, and quarter dips would be good enough for bb.

 

[manafest]

First and foremost if there is pain in the shoulder/elbow then you need to find a more comfortable ROM.

Then I look at the applicability to your sport. A good example is squats. Do you need to rock bottom ass to grass? Hell yeah if you're an Olympic weightlifter, not so much if you're a power lifter, and quarter squats would suffice for bodybuilding (i.e. Ronnie Coleman).

I'd think that dips are the same. Does your shoulders need to pass your elbows? Hell yeah if you're a gymnast, not so much if you're a crossfitter, and quarter dips would be good enough for bb.

I would tend to agree with you

 

[tenpoundsleft]

First and foremost if there is pain in the shoulder/elbow then you need to find a more comfortable ROM.

Then I look at the applicability to your sport. A good example is squats. Do you need to rock bottom ass to grass? Hell yeah if you're an Olympic weightlifter, not so much if you're a power lifter, and quarter squats would suffice for bodybuilding (i.e. Ronnie Coleman).

I'd think that dips are the same. Does your shoulders need to pass your elbows? Hell yeah if you're a gymnast, not so much if you're a crossfitter, and quarter dips would be good enough for bb.

Good point, although in the case of dips there's the triceps engagement on the top, and chest at the bottom, plus back throughout, so a full ROM seems to be best from a BB perspective too, no? Thankfully I have no shoulder pain issues.

 

[Docd187123]

Good point, although in the case of dips there's the triceps engagement on the top, and chest at the bottom, plus back throughout, so a full ROM seems to be best from a BB perspective too, no? Thankfully I have no shoulder pain issues.

The chest and triceps will have to work throughout the entire ROM, even on partial dips. These muscles cannot be taken out of a dip at the top or bottom. What does change though is the amount of their involvement throughout the range of motion.

 

[tenpoundsleft]

The chest and triceps will have to work throughout the entire ROM, even on partial dips. These muscles cannot be taken out of a dip at the top or bottom. What does change though is the amount of their involvement throughout the range of motion.

Obviously they are all needed to hold the body together - you're being overly literal. The first third of the movement doesn't feel like much more than triceps to me though.

If you look at my original question, I was curious about why some people (who appear to have their shinola together otherwise) use such extreme short ROM in their dips.

So far, it seems like the best approach to dips is to go full ROM to get the most out of dips; i.e. engage both chest and triceps to the fullest.

 

[Docd187123]

Obviously they are all needed to hold the body together - you're being overly literal. The first third of the movement doesn't feel like much more than triceps to me though.

If you look at my original question, I was curious about why some people (who appear to have their shinola together otherwise) use such extreme short ROM in their dips.

So far, it seems like the best approach to dips is to go full ROM to get the most out of dips; i.e. engage both chest and triceps to the fullest.

I'm not talking about holding the body together but you're providing an example of what I'm talking about in a roundabout way. Just bc you don't feel much triceps in the first 1/3 of the ROM does not mean they're not working, and working a lot. Think about it anatomically, the triceps extend the elbow among other functions. At the very bottom of the dip movement your elbows are bent at an angle dependent on your dimensions and depth/ROM. What do you do from the bottom? You press yourself up by extending the elbows which is a pressing movement which has to involve the triceps.

I'll add in another reason ppl use such short ROM in dips that I don't think was touched upon. It's the same reason people do quarter squats or half bench....the movement is hard through the full range of motion and many shy away from a hard lift or the hard portion of the lift. I'm not saying this is always the case as many also cannot get full depth without pain but some people just don't know better.

 

[ErikR]

A lot of guys don't like doing weighted dips or weighted pull ups because quite simply it's a lot harder then doing a pull down machine or laying on a bench, or triceps push downs. Which is a shame because there very effective.

 

[tenpoundsleft]

A lot of guys don't like doing weighted dips or weighted pull ups because quite simply it's a lot harder then doing a pull down machine or laying on a bench, or triceps push downs. Which is a shame because there very effective.

Thanks, I feel better about my approach to doing clean and deep dips then, I'd like to maintain full ROM as long as I can, and I have no problems going well below my elbows. Just did 11 with 45, 12 with 35, and 15 unweighted - nothing special, but felt good to me.

 

[gr8whitetrukker]

I've tried the 1 minute dip. Picked it up from demon. 30 seconds up 30 seconds down. Full ROM. Try it! Had me shakin like a leaf on a tree