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Anabolic Steroids
Bill Roberts: Help on 2 on 4 off cycle
- Thread starter tgfan
- Start date
mac111
New Member
have you used steroids before?
LOL I meant 50 mcg's Micrograms.....5mg
Suppression of the HPTA axis will be immediate. Both estrogen and any androgen are suppressive.
All roids shut you down, some just do it faster like the more powerful androgens like tren and all the roids that aromatize.
Taking an AI or estrogen blocker will not lessen suppression while "on".
How quickly you recover from a cycle depends on how much testicular shrinkage you get and how long the pituitary is suppressed re: LH release.
You can prevent testicular shrinkage by using moderate amounts of HCG while "on".
Recovery from a 2 week cycle is a non issue...you are going to recover T production fast. Using an AI or estrogen blocker just helps this process by keeping estrogen low(AI's) or by blocking the estrogen receptor at the hypothalamus with a blocker like Nolva or clomid.
RG
No. Both androgen's and estrogen is suppressive. The aromatizing roids and testosterone probably do it faster, as they have two components of suppression at the hypothalamus......estrogen and the roid itself(an androgen).
You could do a cycle of only Anavar, a weaker androgen and a non aromatizer, and you'll be shut down in a day if the dose is decent.
The steroids that give the best gains aromatize. The exception is Anadrol, which does not aromatize but is thought to activate the estrogen receptor.
Yes the estrogen causes water gain. Yes the water gain at the intracellular level increase muscle size AND strength. Yes, much of the weight gain is water weight. Also, estrogen is anabolic to some degree in itself.
In a two weeker you don't want to concern yourself with the things you are talking about. You want to hit it fast and very hard and with decent doses of powerful gear. The you want the roids to clear fast. The idea is to get androgen levels up immediately and then have them leave as fast as possible.
The whole idea of 2 weekers is to get "some" gains and little to no sides and no lasting suppression of the HPTA axis. It is NOT going to be the best way to go if you are a serious competitive bodybuilder even if you do repeating 2 week "on" 4 week "off" cycles.
You need to take heavy duty stuff like dbol , anadrol, test suspension or test prop and tren ace. NO long chain esters of any testosterone or roids...ie: no Test Cyp, Sust, Enanthate, Primo, EQ, Deca.
dbol/tren is a great combo. I recommend big doses for the two weeker.... 100mg of tren a day for 10 days. 50 plus mg of dbol a day.
You can also try anadrol only at 50mg twice a day but there is nothing that you can do for the bloat from anadrol.
Use your imagination but stay away from the long acting ester roids or test.
The 2 weeker works but for guys that are already above their natural maximum size(from roid use of course) you need to take very large doses. As I said in my first post we are talking 1200 mg of test a week(in suspension or prop with suspension being more ideal), 100-150 mg of tren ace, 50-100mg of dbol, slin, growth etc.
NO...100 of dbol will not hurt your liver because you are only "on" for 2 weeks! I'd never recommend any 17aa roids for longer than 6 weeks at a time...an usually on 4 weeks if the dose is large.
RG
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LOL I meant 50 mcg's Micrograms.....5mg
Suppression of the HPTA axis will be immediate. Both estrogen and any androgen are suppressive.
All roids shut you down, some just do it faster like the more powerful androgens like tren and all the roids that aromatize. Taking an AI or estrogen blocker will not lessen suppression while "on".
How quickly you recover from a cycle depends on how much testicular shrinkage you get and how long the pituitary is suppressed re: LH release.
You can prevent testicular shrinkage by using moderate amounts of HCG while "on".
Recovery from a 2 week cycle is a non issue...you are going to recover T production fast. Using an AI or estrogen blocker just helps this process by keeping estrogen low(AI's) or by blocking the estrogen receptor at the hypothalamus with a blocker like Nolva or clomid.
RG
500mcgs is .5mg
suppression immediate?
blocking or lowering estrogen helps with recovery because excess estrogen at the hypothalamus impairs htpa recovery. but recovery from a two weeker not an issue so why bother. insurance and speed im guessing. plus lower estrogen gives a harder look.
on a two weeker wouldnt speed of suppresion kind of equal how suppressive it is. and in turn how fast recovery would be.
and wouldnt non aromatizing steroids lower estrogen due to aromatase competition.
test is an arotamizing steroid. into estrogen. but some steroids turn into stronger estrogens. know of any off hand. are they more suppresive. and a progestin is worse. i think.
i question the last statement. impair maybe. by how much.
The steroids that give the best gains aromatize. The exception is Anadrol, which does not aromatize but is thought to activate the estrogen receptor.
Yes the estrogen causes water gain. Yes the water gain at the intracellular level increase muscle size AND strength. Yes, much of the weight gain is water weight. Also, estrogen is anabolic to some degree in itself.
In a two weeker you don't want to concern yourself with the things you are talking about. You want to hit it fast and very hard and with decent doses of powerful gear. The you want the roids to clear fast. The idea is to get androgen levels up immediately and then have them leave as fast as possible.
The whole idea of 2 weekers is to get "some" gains and little to no sides and no lasting suppression of the HPTA axis. It is NOT going to be the best way to go if you are a serious competitive bodybuilder even if you do repeating 2 week "on" 4 week "off" cycles.
You need to take heavy duty stuff like dbol , anadrol, test suspension or test prop and tren ace. NO long chain esters of any testosterone or roids...ie: no Test Cyp, Sust, Enanthate, Primo, EQ, Deca.
dbol/tren is a great combo. I recommend big doses for the two weeker.... 100mg of tren a day for 10 days. 50 plus mg of dbol a day.
You can also try anadrol only at 50mg twice a day but there is nothing that you can do for the bloat from anadrol.
Use your imagination but stay away from the long acting ester roids or test.
The 2 weeker works but for guys that are already above their natural maximum size(from roid use of course) you need to take very large doses. As I said in my first post we are talking 1200 mg of test a week(in suspension or prop with suspension being more ideal), 100-150 mg of tren ace, 50-100mg of dbol, slin, growth etc.
NO...100 of dbol will not hurt your liver because you are only "on" for 2 weeks! I'd never recommend any 17aa roids for longer than 6 weeks at a time...an usually on 4 weeks if the dose is large.
RG
this is good info. i kind of had it. and i may be worrying to much. or over analyzing. just gathering more info.
the short answer. not really. ive never run a cycle.
mac111
New Member
you really need to read up mate, its your body you are putting powerful hormones into, with possible irreversible side effects such as permanent cessation of natty test production.
i'd really like conclusive proof on how this 2wk cycle idea actually works, i really cannot see how it produces results unless something like test suspension is used and even at that, 2wks will show minimal results at best
swollenone
New Member
What many are failing to understand is the process of natural recovery still needs to happen through a negative feedback.
I did these cycles way back. Afterwards I realized it was just a long cycle with my endocrine system shutdown then stimulated pharmacologically.
Even with HPTA stimulation with clomifen or testicular stimulation with HCG, after discontinuation of the PCT, levels will drop until the body recognizes deficient levels to 'naturally' activate feedback of LH and FSH.
The 3rd week is a stimulated natural testicular cycle of testosterone. Then after, 3 weeks of the body adjusting through negative feedback. Then you are megadosing/inhibiting for two weeks again.
A 'crash' will still occur when you quit steroids.
Yeah...sorry about the math lol.
At any rate .5mg of letro is a lot.
The hypothalamus will sense the high androgen level immediately and will not release ANY Gonadotropin releasing hormone....thus the pituitary will not release any Luetinizing hormone and the testes will STOP producing testosterone. This happens pretty quickly.
You take an estrogen blocker or inhibitor for insurance reasons yes....once the testes start producing testosterone there will be some aromatization....that estrogen is suppressive...thus the use of an estrogen blocker AI drug. You don't want any inhibitory affect at all when recovering normal T production. You may not need these after a two weeker but they certainly cannot hurt.
Non aromatizing steroids lower estrogen indirectly by stopping ALL T production so there is no aromatization to estrogen because there is no T.
Again, androgens are suppressive big time and not just estrogen.
RG
ah...no. There is no crash after PCT. What happens with PCT is T levels eventually go higher than your normal. This may take some time if you have testicular shrinkage by being stupid enough to do a long cycle with low dose regular HCG use during a cycle. Once you stop the blocker the hypothalamus will then sense higher estrogen levels and send out less gonatotropin releasing hormone= less LH released from the pituitary= less T production....there is NO crash, it's a gradual adjustment to YOUR physiological T level.
In the case of stopping an AI ...the hypothalamus will sense higher estrogen levels due to gradual returning aromatization of T to e. This takes a while cause the half life of AI's is very long, especially letrozole.
RG
Since you don't believe me or Bill Roberts then you need to try it yourself bro.
They work. However, you have to know how to run them and you have to train really hard and eat and sleep very well.
Think about this....if you are not at your natural maximum size(genetic limit without steroids) you CAN add strength and weight/size to your body in a very intense 2 week period IF you have all your ducks in a row. It requires extreme intensity, near perfect food intake and lots of sleep. You cannot train like this for more than a couple weeks without burnout though. Your musculature will recover but the nervous system will fry.
Trust me bro...if I was training you you'd gain in this two week period with no juice at all....it would be hell and trust me, going all out in high-ish rep squats and dead lifts is absolute hell and that's why almost nobody does these exercises and it's also why almost nobody gets good gains without juice.
Now add high doses of powerful fast acting roids and perhaps some test suspension or prop(front loading the prop). Trust me it works.
How good it works depends on the doses and how far away from or how far above you are from your natural maximum genetic steroid free limit.
If you are 20 pounds about your natural max you will need really big doses. If you are 20 pounds BELOW your natural max then you don't need huge doses.
So, try this bro. 150mg of tren ace on day one and then 100mg a day for 10 days... and 300 of prop on day one and then 150mg a day for 10 days, and 60 of dbol in divided doses OR a couple hours before training, and 10iu's of rapid acting slin after training (better know what you are doing) and 10iu's of growth a day. Take 1.25 mg of letrozole a day and start taking it a few days BEFORE the cycle starts. Follow my training advice as I outlined and eat well and sleep well. don't care how big you are you will gain on this.
Is it as good as a 8-12 weeker at lower doses ...NO....but 2 weekers are NOT about getting the best gains possible. They are about reducing sides, and increasing T recovery speed and KEEPING your smaller gains.
Are they for serious competitive bodybuilders...NO...unless he wants to reduce his steroid use.
RG
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Test is not an anabolic steroid...it testosterone. Don't call it a steroid. But I get your drift.
No some steroids do not turn into stronger estrogens.
Progesterone is quite suppressive....worse then estrogen...maybe, as in the case of nandrolone.
Some steroids are stronger androgens than testosterone ie: tren.
The point is this...all steroids will shut you down 100% and very quickly, depending on the dose. Yes low dose d-bol or tren or testosterone or nandrolne will shut you down faster than low dose milder androgens like primo and anavar(that also do not aromatize)....but don't be foolish in thinking that you can take low dose anything, and even if it has a short half life and you take it only once a day in the morning, and not get suppression. Maybe 20 of var won't shut down all T production. Maybe 10 of dbol taken only on the morning won't shut down all T production. Who cares....what matter is is these low doses actually help you gain muscle more than your own normal T level does....I personally doubt it.
For the record. I did a low dose primo cycle once. 400 a week. I had NO T production after 3 weeks lol. Gains were moderate and clean. I recovered T production well because after I found out I had NO T production I started top use HCH at 500 iu's every other day for the next 9 weeks. I used nolva for a month starting a week after stopping the cycle. My T was back to normal in two weeks....at four weeks it was well above normal. Then I stopped the nolva and within 2 weeks my T was back to it's normal level of 550ng/dl. Typical level.
RG
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mac111
New Member
man no harm, but some of your claims are mad fairy magic if you ask me[Since you don't believe me or Bill Roberts then you need to try it yourself bro.
They work. However, you have to know how to run them and you have to train really hard and eat and sleep very well.
Think about this....if you are not at your natural maximum size(genetic limit without steroids) you CAN add strength and weight/size to your body in a very intense 2 week period IF you have all your ducks in a row. It requires extreme intensity, near perfect food intake and lots of sleep. You cannot train like this for more than a couple weeks without burnout though. Your musculature will recover but the nervous system will fry.
Trust me bro...if I was training you you'd gain in this two week period with no juice at all....it would be hell and trust me, going all out in high-ish rep squats and dead lifts is absolute hell and that's why almost nobody does these exercises and it's also why almost nobody gets good gains without juice.
Now add high doses of powerful fast acting roids and perhaps some test suspension or prop(front loading the prop). Trust me it works.
How good it works depends on the doses and how far away from or how far above you are from your natural maximum genetic steroid free limit.
If you are 20 pounds about your natural max you will need really big doses. If you are 20 pounds BELOW your natural max then you don't need huge doses.
So, try this bro. 150mg of tren ace on day one and then 100mg a day for 10 days... and 300 of prop on day one and then 150mg a day for 10 days, and 60 of dbol in divided doses OR a couple hours before training, and 10iu's of rapid acting slin after training (better know what you are doing) and 10iu's of growth a day. Take 1.25 mg of letrozole a day and start taking it a few days BEFORE the cycle starts. Follow my training advice as I outlined and eat well and sleep well. don't care how big you are you will gain on this.
Is it as good as a 8-12 weeker at lower doses ...NO....but 2 weekers are NOT about getting the best gains possible. They are about reducing sides, and increasing T recovery speed and KEEPING your smaller gains.
Are they for serious competitive bodybuilders...NO...unless he wants to reduce his steroid use.
RG
)]
i dont need to read up. ive done my homework. powerful and irreversible is why a tread softly. and longer cycles are well documented. tried and true i was told. this is an alternative. and some out of the box thinking. if it works it works. if not. fine. if steroids and suppresion come hand and hand ill have to weigh the cost and benifit. it may be ill have to do it and see. aint nothin to it but to do it.
test suspension IS recomended. long esters not. gains minimal. or limited. thats what everyone saying. and you just did.
Yeah...sorry about the math lol.
At any rate .5mg of letro is a lot.
Non aromatizing steroids lower estrogen indirectly by stopping ALL T production so there is no aromatization to estrogen because there is no T.
Again, androgens are suppressive big time and not just estrogen.
RG
the math does make a difference. life and death sometimes. and not just insulin. 1000 mcgs to a mg. .5mg letro a lot? its what you recomend. .05 mg letro. how do measure that. which one.
im thinking non aromatizing steroids lower estrogen indirectly. but then so should all. ive been told this. if suppression on a two weeker is a non issue how would non aromatizing drugs not be better.
androgens are suppressive. big time. so is estrogen. progestins worse. three pathways is what ive read.
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Test is not an anabolic steroid...it testosterone. Don't call it a steroid. But I get your drift.
No some steroids do not turn into stronger estrogens.
Progesterone is quite suppressive....worse then estrogen...maybe, as in the case of nandrolone.
Some steroids are stronger androgens than testosterone ie: tren.
RG
test not an anabolic steroid??? then wtf is it??? and it is a steroid. an anabolic one. or why use it for bodybuilding. and what should i call it.
some steroids do turn aromatize into stronger estrogens. your statement is incorrect. wrong wrong wrong. unless you refer to the half dozen most common steroids. aka. the "real" steroids.
dht is more androgenic than test.
im taking myself out of this thread. if i want to ill find out through labs. i hear thats the only way. stop playing guessing games.
im not sure who knows what.
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