BioLogic Log

[MarinePhinFan]

Goodness your "chest development" is coming along quite nicely fella.

Gollie gee MO, I can really see the difference there in the before vs now pics.

I mean PCs chest training and development protocol has made a huge difference, lol!

I see no difference in his chest. I see a little more vascularity in his arms and that's about it. This is by no means a flame or cutdown of the OP. I think he is trim, but he is by no means muscular or big. I looked bigger than him after I got out of Marine basic. And that consisted of low calories, high cardio, high stress, and little sleep.

However, the guy giving him advice in the first couple of pages was spot on. In fact, he was respectful, and IMO, being very helpful. I'm surprised that so many here were upset with him for giving out this advice.

 

[Pericles]

I see no difference in his chest. I see a little more vascularity in his arms and that's about it. This is by no means a flame or cutdown of the OP. I think he is trim, but he is by no means muscular or big. I looked bigger than him after I got out of Marine basic. And that consisted of low calories, high cardio, high stress, and little sleep.

However, the guy giving him advice in the first couple of pages was spot on. In fact, he was respectful, and IMO, being very helpful. I'm surprised that so many here were upset with him for giving out this advice.

Thanks, I did try and sugar coat it as much as possible. Mike needs to learn more about his body and how it responds to training. My Chest was always a problem area for me, untill I stopped worrying about how much I could bench and started training for feel and higher reps using more machines and dumbbells.

Keep in mind that neither Jim nor CBS weight train, train people, or have any experience working with higher level athletes. It is morally incomprehensible that they would be advocating that Mike use Tren. They have some technical understanding, but can't see the forest for the trees. I have prepped many competitive athletes in both martial arts and bodybuilding. 2 turned pro, and 2 years ago I helped prep Kevin K for his NPC Texas State win. I did the program for a local guy here in Texas recently and he was doing great....however, he decided not to take my advice at the 11 day mark. He was supposed to use the diuretic program and gradually carb his body up over 10 days, but he instead depleted, loaded ran no diuretics and came in flat at 12th place. I was coached by IFBB Pro Chris Duffy, and I work w/ IFBB pro Frank Roberson on occasion (a great guy). Finally, I have also worked w/ a lot of average guys who wanted to get bigger and stronger.

It is a shame that Mike is being mislead. I also just noted that he is only 24.

I wish I could show everyone just how well some 21 year kids are doing all natural. These kids train hard, eat and rest big, and they are extremely muscular. All are over 200, and one is 240. These kids only hit a body part every 6-7 days, keep their workouts fairly short (hour, 1.5 at max) and train very intensely.

You will now see an outpouring of animosity towards me, but that is OK because I know I speak truth to folly.

I wish that Mike would have done more in terms of training before he started running gear.

I still would like for him to explore changing his training.

Mike, could you please tell me what your chest workout looks like?

Are you doing a lot of heavy bench?

If you want to move it to another thread we could go there.

 

[MarinePhinFan]

Thanks, I did try and sugar coat it as much as possible. Mike needs to learn more about his body and how it responds to training. My Chest was always a problem area for me, untill I stopped worrying about how much I could bench and started training for feel and higher reps using more machines and dumbbells.

Keep in mind that neither Jim nor CBS weight train, train people, or have any experience working with higher level athletes. It is morally incomprehensible that they would be advocating that Mike use Tren. I have prepped many competitive athletes in both martial arts and bodybuilding. 2 turned pro, and 2 years ago I helped prep Kevin K for his NPC Texas State win. I did the program for a local guy here in Texas recently and he was doing great....however, he decided not to take my advice at the 11 day mark. He was supposed to use the diuretic program and gradually carb his body up over 10 days, but he instead depleted, loaded ran no diuretics and came in flat at 12th place. I myself have my share of titles in both grappling and body building. That is me on my avatar. I was coached by IFBB Pro Chris Duffy, and I work w/ IFBB pro Frank Roberson on occasion (a great guy). Finally, I have also worked w/ a lot of average guys who wanted to get bigger and stronger.

It is a shame that Mike is being mislead. I also just noted that he is only 24.

I wish I could show everyone just how well some 21 year kids are doing all natural. These kids train hard, eat and rest big, and they are extremely muscular. All are over 200, and one is 240. These kids only hit a body part every 6-7 days, keep their workouts fairly short (hour, 1.5 at max) and train very intensely.

You will now see an outpouring of animosity towards me, but that is OK because I know I speak truth to folly.

I wish that Mike would have done more in terms of training before he started running gear.

Everyone has a weak spot and very few are genetically gifted enough to look like Arnold...even with gear. However, hardwork, proper training, and gear will go a long ways in helping people achieve their goals.

My weak spot has always been my chest. Huge back, huge legs, huge arms...mediocre chest. I've run a few cycles and never achieved what I wanted in regards to my chest. When I started to learn and do pretty much what you recommended here I saw a huge improvement. And for those of you not in the know...I do not know Pericles and I have been around this forum since 2001. I've posted pics...maybe some of you remember me..I once went by "crashcrew".

 

[Pericles]

I think that you, Mike, and myself are similar in body typology. What do I mean by that?

Some BB's are "torso" people. They have a much larger chest and back relative to their arms and often legs.

Franco Columbo was a "torso" type.

On the other hand, Mike, Myself, and from what you have said, are "limb" people, we are genetically disposed to have bigger arms and legs relative to our torsos.

For the first 10 years of my training I kept doing heavy bench, usually based around 3-5 reps as heavy as possible. Heavy weights build muscle, right?

My chest only had lower, outer development. It was completely hollow in the upper middle areas. I started training more for feel, using more dumbells. I kept my reps around 10 and got very good results. I still trained pretty heavy, using 80-90 lbs. My ego wanted to use 100's, but I would lose feel and just be cranking out.

Remember, your body wants to accomplish tasks in the simplest and most efficient manner possible. This is a survival mechanism.

However that means, if you are a limb person, you are likely to use more triceps than chest when training chest, especially if going as heavy as possible.

That is what, I believe, is happening w/ Mike. His arms are getting huge, especially w/ the gear he is using. The routine I suggested would help him get more balance, which is the key to a really excellent and healthy physique.

Lately, Frank (Roberson) has convinced me to start going w/ a 20 rep schema.

 

[Pericles]

BTW....I should not have used the term morally incomprehensible, that was too strong, and hypocritical, as I am hooking up a guy running high tren who refuses to train his legs hard, even though he wants to gain weight.

I did try and talk him out of it, lol.

 

[Pericles]

I am getting PM's about developing upper and inner chest.

Lets move the discussion to the training forum, and I will respond there.

 

[scott weiland]

Yep. Same here. Even though my bench press weight would go up, my chest didn't have great results. Started doing a lot of dumbell work and had results right away.

 

[Pericles]

I stated this before, but it bears repeating: Pull the shoulders down and back, squeezing the scapula together. Lift the chest high (but do not arch your back).

 

[rlhall12]

^this guy knows what hes talking about

 

[hurricaneike]

Small package received. Good communication. Time to get to using it.

 

[GodChild1]

I can tell by your overpowering triceps and delts, in relation to your chest, that your current bench press form probably puts more stress on your triceps than chest. Don't tuck your elbows so much. Adjust your forum, sacrifice some weight on the bar for now, and soon you'll see the improvements.

 

[stomps]

When did this thread become tryout headquarters for the gym police.

 

[BigShadow]

I hardly ever chime in and hate know it all's but I have been training for a long time and have a pretty good chest if I can so so myself . And the advice you have given to mind muscle connection, pulling back of the scapula, chest always out front, dumbbell work over barbell....is spot on to building a big chest. Fuck the weight I've never benched very heavy on flat bench but I use to throw up 125lb db weighing only 175lbs because I learned these things. I also am certified and have trained many people as well. I rarely put anyone on a bb but if I do it's incline one click up bar to the neck using a fairly wide grip. Anyway mike take PC's advice or not. But I have to agree with him. But PC u do talk a lot of shit.

 

[Mike Oxbig]

I'm also a certified personal trainer and am plenty familiar with basic exercise kinesiology.

My shoulders sit too far forward so I'm going easy on chest exercises and concentrating more on training my rhomboids for the purpose of improving my posture.

For the most part the only time I train chest is when doing lat pullovers. When I do bench I keep my grip extremely close.

 

[dropdahammah]

eating clean always causes me to lose a ton of weight whilst gaining vascularity and definition (duh). Weight gainers and meat FTW.

 

[Pericles]

I'm also a certified personal trainer and am plenty familiar with basic exercise kinesiology.

My shoulders sit too far forward so I'm going easy on chest exercises and concentrating more on training my rhomboids for the purpose of improving my posture.

For the most part the only time I train chest is when doing lat pullovers. When I do bench I keep my grip extremely close.

The closer the grip on bench, the less you will rely on chest, and the more you rely triceps and shoulders.

I am not trying insult you, I am trying to help you. I took a zillion PT courses, but more importantly I have learned much in the 37 years I have been bodybuilding.

For some reason, you feel that I have made a personal attack on you, but that is untrue. You are not training correctly, and probably have a large amount of muscle imbalances. I see it every day, guys doing heavy bench (which does have its uses, especially during the first 5-10 years of training) all the while their chest never becomes fully developed.

I see the same guys doing many sets of upright should presses and other exercises that hit the front of the delts. They neglect the side and rear delts, and that is where many injuries start. It is as if they only train muscles they can see in the mirror.

Please, at least try the routine I posted earlier.

Please try the routine I laid out for you. It will perform wonders, trust me.

 

[Mike Oxbig]

The closer the grip on bench, the less you will rely on chest, and the more you rely triceps and shoulders.

...that was the entire point of my post. I take a very close grip in order isolate my triceps/delts.

In all fairness your chest advice is absolutely correct and much more effective than the form used by most in the gym. It is also basic common knowledge among those of us that are CPTs as well as many veteran weightlifters.

My problem was caused by poor posture and overtraining chest/undertraining rhomboids. Not quite sure why you take issue with me placing most of my concern on improving posture but I don't really care in all honesty. I don't train to appease a random 50 year old thong-wearing man from the internets.

 

[Gunrunner]

The closer the grip on bench, the less you will rely on chest, and the more you rely triceps and shoulders.

...that was the entire point of my post. I take a very close grip in order isolate my triceps/delts.

So what do you do for your chest? I'm not jumping on the PC bandwagon but he is making sense and appears to be offering construction comments. I don't mean to be all in your business so tell me to bug off and I will.

 

[Pericles]

...that was the entire point of my post. I take a very close grip in order isolate my triceps/delts.

In all fairness your chest advice is absolutely correct and much more effective than the form used by most in the gym. It is also basic common knowledge among those of us that are CPTs as well as many veteran weightlifters.

My problem was caused by poor posture and overtraining chest/undertraining rhomboids. Not quite sure why you take issue with me placing most of my concern on improving posture but I don't really care in all honesty. I don't train to appease a random 50 year old thong-wearing man from the internets.

Sigh. Some people are advice proof. I try and help you, you insult me. I have more training knowledge in my pinky, that you have in your whole body. Personal training courses are a joke, NCF also. 60% of the people I help train ARE pt's.

The guy I was coaching for nationals followed my advice (which was to run 1500 mgs of test, 800 tren and 800 mast). 11 days out w/ were going to gradually carb him back up, and run the diuretic program, but he decided to not run diuretics, to deplete and load and look 100% flat. He placed 12th. Had he followed my advice he would have been top 3.

I just can't understand why people do stupid shit. Insanity is doing the same thing and expecting different results.

I am always looking to learn even w/ 37 years of experience (most resent advice I took was from IFBB pro Frank Roberson). I remain teachable.

Do the dumbbell routine I posted for your chest. Since your chest is weak and your front delts and tris are overdeveloped relative to you chest, pour 100% into the chest part.

After training chest then do narrow grip bench. Then hit front delts, 3 sets are plenty. Finish w/ 3 sets only of tris 2 sets of tri press, and one set using a reverse grip.

 

[Pericles]

Oh, and eat huge after. Only hit a body part once every 6-7 days.