Blood Work results in, need help

[mixxin]

I was given a link to this site and have been reading threads for hours. Very good info from very knowledgeable people!

I just got my test results back and there were a few items I am concerned about. Below are the results of concern and then the normal range provided in parentheses.

DHEA-Sulfate 104 (120-520)
Estradiol 60 (0-53)
Lymphs 60 (14-46)
Neutrophils 29 (40-74)

My free testosterone is 22 (8.7-25.1) and testosterone serum is 708 (241-827).

My last cycle (test and GH) was 3 months ago. My nuts are definitely back and all seems pretty normal. BTW, I am 35.

I am really baffled as to how my test levels seem on the higher end yet my DHEA levels are very low. I thought DHEA is a precursor to Test.

I have just purchased Indolplex per my reading and it's on the way. I started to take 7-Keto DHEA (100mg/day) yesterday in hopes that it will bring my DHEA levels up w/o affecting my test and estrogen levels.

I would be grateful for any opinions on my results. If you need more results I'll be glad to provide it.

 

[cpeil2]

Lymphs 60 (14-46)
Neutrophils 29 (40-74)

The absolute counts would be more useful. Because these are relative values, the neutrophils probably appear low because the lymphocytes are high.

Your lymphocytes might be mildly elevated because of a viral infection, or you might have some sort of low-level inflammatory process going on.

 

[mixxin]

Thanks for the response. Here are the values:

Lymphs (Absolute) 3.5
Neutrophils (Absolute) 1.7

 

[cpeil2]

Lymphocytes are fine, neutrophils actually borderline low. Probably not low enough for any ill effect. I had mild neutropenia like you have for a couple of years after a serious illness. The doc told me not to worry about it, which I tried not to do. Eventually it went away; never had any problems as a result of it.

 

[mxim]

when was your last cycle? were you taking hcg or clomid when you had this blood test? if so,what dosages. if not,when did you stop all pct including supplements?

 

[mixxin]

Lymphocytes are fine, neutrophils actually borderline low. Probably not low enough for any ill effect. I had mild neutropenia like you have for a couple of years after a serious illness. The doc told me not to worry about it, which I tried not to do. Eventually it went away; never had any problems as a result of it.

I haven't been sick with a cold/flu or anything else (knocks on wood) for about a year.

I am taking a probiotic for healthy bacteria twice a day I wonder if that can be it? Other than that I take a multi vitamin everyday.

 

[mixxin]

when was your last cycle? were you taking hcg or clomid when you had this blood test? if so,what dosages. if not,when did you stop all pct including supplements?

PCT from last cycle was over and done 3 months ago. I took HCG during the cycle at low doses starting week 5 and then Nolv. and IGF-1 for PCT.

I am not take anything after PCT, no HCG or Clomid. Only a Multi Vitamin, Glutamine and a Probiotic.

 

[mixxin]

Which is better to normalize my DHEA levels, 7-Keto or DHEA? From reading various posts, seems like DHEA < 50mg/day is the recommended dose.

 

[pmgamer18]

Which is better to normalize my DHEA levels, 7-Keto or DHEA? From reading various posts, seems like DHEA < 50mg/day is the recommended dose.

I tryed 7-Keto did it for a yr. it was the same thinking you had to keep my T and E2 levels good but this did not work. I am not doing this.
http://www.myvitanet.com/dhea260capph.html
My Dr. said to take it just before you eat. Doing this brought my levels up in the middle of the range in 4 weeks. Did it make me feel any different no but keeping everthing in range can't hurt.
Phil

 

[mixxin]

Phil,

I read some of your posts in other threads, very informative. Are you still taking DHEA at 25mg/day? I just ordered a bottle from that link.

I also purchased Indolplex/DIM from Rite Care. It should arrive any day. I will follow what you recommended in another thread until I can find what dosage is good for me.

I also started GH at 2iu/day for anti-aging purposes. Do you see this hurting anything?

 

[pmgamer18]

Phil,

I read some of your posts in other threads, very informative. Are you still taking DHEA at 25mg/day? I just ordered a bottle from that link.

I also purchased Indolplex/DIM from Rite Care. It should arrive any day. I will follow what you recommended in another thread until I can find what dosage is good for me.

I also started GH at 2iu/day for anti-aging purposes. Do you see this hurting anything?

Sounds good I see no problem taking GH if you had a test and it showed you need it. You need to be care full you can read about something that one is doing and get it and try it and end up making yourself worse because you will be doing a ton of OTC carp. That in most cases is snake oil.
If a Dr. found your HGH low and gave you a scrip the go for it.
Phil
Phil

 

[SWALE]

My understanding os that 7-keto DHEA does not convert to DHEA-S in the body. Anyone know anything about this?

 

[robertin75]

Hi:

I found this reply from PhytoPharmica. It can be found at:

http://www.chronicfatigue.org/What's%20New.html

--------------------

A patient of ours recently sent a request to one of the makers of 7-Keto for a explanation of the difference between it and DHEA. We thought all our friends would like to read this explanation so we have included it here.

Heres that email I received (from PhytoPharmica).

Dear Sir:

Thank you for your recent inquiry regarding PhytoPharmica(r) products.
Although we can't comment on the potency differences between a competitor DHEA and our 7-keto DHEA product, we can discuss the difference between the two chemicals in our body.

Dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA) is a major adrenal hormone whose mechanism is subjected to investigation. In both animals and humans, low DHEA levels occur with the development of a number of the problem of aging:

increased incidence of several cancers, loss of sleep, decreased feeling of well-being, osteoporosis and atherosclerosis.(1) In human body, DHEA is converted into testosterone, dihydrotestosterone, oestrone, oestradiol,(2) and 7-keto DHEA.(3,4) The amount of DHEA that is converted into the above hormones or 7-keto DHEA varies with a person's medical condition, age and gender.(5)

7-keto DHEA is irreversibly metabolized from DHEA, and it will not convert to DHEA. Therefore, 7-Keto(tm) does not raise blood levels of DHEA in the body. Research has indicated that in healthy men, 7-keto DHEA did not increase levels of DHEA, estradiol, cortisol, total testosterone and free testosterone.(1) As 7 Keto(tm) does not raise blood levels of DHEA, decreasing blood levels of DHEA after stopping supplementation would not be an expected result.

Research has shown that 7-Keto(tm) is more potent than DHEA in strengthening the immune system, enhancing memory, and inducing the activity of various thermogenic enzymes.(6-13) Therefore, it is beneficial
for individuals desiring the benefits of DHEA without the associated problem of DHEA conversion into other hormones.

Again, thank you for your interest in our products. We wish both you and your wife continued good health.

Sincerely,
Brenda Van Goethem
PhytoPharmica (r) Medical Writer



1. Watson RR, Huls A, Araghinikuam M, et al. Dehydroepiandrosterone and disease of aging. Drugs Aging. 1996;9:274-291. Abstract.

2. Nippoldt TB, Nair KS. Is there a case for DHEA replacement? Baillieres Clin Endocrinol Metab. 1998;12:507-520. Abstract.

3. Parker LN. Adrenal androgens in clinical medicine. San Diego, Calif: Academic Press, Inc. 1989:15.

4. Marenich LP. Excretion of testosterone, epitestosterone, androstenedione and 7-ketodehydroepiandrosterone in healthy men of
different ages. Probl Endokrinol. 1979;25:28-31.

5. Sahelian R. DHEA: a practical guide. Garden City Park, NY: Avery Publishing Group; 1996:3-6.
6. DHEA (7-keto-DHEA). The FASEB J. 1998;12:764. Abstract.

7. Nelson R, Herron M, Weeks C, et al. Dehydroepiandrosterone and 7-keto-DHEA augment interleukin 2 (IL 2) production by human lymphocytes
in vitro. Presented at the 5th Conference on Retroviruses and Opportunistic Infections; February 1-5, 1998; Chicago, Illinois. Abstract (596):49.

8. Lardy H, Treatment of Alzheimer's disease and modulation of immune system with D5-androsternes. 1998. United States Patent: 5707983.

9. Shi J, Lardy H. 3b-hydroxyandrost-5-ene-7,17-dione (7-keto-DHEA) improves memory in mice. The FASEB J. 1998;12:764. Abstract.

10. Davison MH, Weeks C, Lardy H, et al. Safety and endocrine effects of 3-acetyl-7-oxo- Lardy H, Partridge B, Kneer N et al. Ergosteroids:
induction of thermogenic enzymes in liver of rats treated with steroids derived from dehydroepiandrosterone. Proc Natl Acad Sci USA. 1995;92:6617-6619.
Abstract.

11. Su CY. Lardy H. Induction of hepatic mitochondrial glycerophosphate dehydrogenase in rats by dehydroepiandrosterone. J Biochem.
1991;110:207-213.

12. Bobyleva V, Bellei M, Kneer N et al. The effects of ergosteroid 7-oxo-dehydroepiandrosterone on mitochondrial membrane potential:
possible relationship to thermogenesis. Arch Biochem Biophys. 1997:341:122-128.

13. Lardy H, Reich IL. 5-androsternes useful for promoting weight maintenance or weight loss and treatment process. 1996. United States Patent: 5506223.

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Hope it is helpful.

Roberto

 

[mixxin]

7-keto DHEA is irreversibly metabolized from DHEA, and it will not convert to DHEA

That leads me to believe that those who have low DHEA levels should supplement with DHEA not 7-Keto, or both can be taken together?

 

[pmgamer18]

7-keto DHEA is irreversibly metabolized from DHEA, and it will not convert to DHEA

That leads me to believe that those who have low DHEA levels should supplement with DHEA not 7-Keto, or both can be taken together?

Yep this is my feeling also. I still can't tell any difference in how I feel but then I feel the best now in all the 21 yrs. I have been on TRT.
Phil

 

[SWALE]

THAT was a great post.

I would interpret this reading the other way around: that we should supplement 7-keto instead. I believe that supplement is useful for weight loss as well.