Blood work with Stanford's Test C/Primo

[malfeasance]

Help me out here with the blue circles red circles, two weeks, etc.

It looks like you had estradiol of 24pg/ml two weeks after starting 300mg of testosterone and 300mg of primobolan, both at unknown esters.

Is there any further information available?

I don't see a follow up test. I don't see a baseline test.

You indicate that you increased the testosterone, and it looks like you have increased it again, and added "Ethinyl estradiol. 35 mcg"

Still no further blood tests.


Am I missing any information?


If I am not, how did you conclude that you "crashed" your estradiol with primobolan?

Please take your time to explain clearly so that we can follow exactly what your did.

I tried my best to put your story together with what you posted.

 

[Rido]

Help me out here with the blue circles red circles, two weeks, etc.

It looks like you had estradiol of 24pg/ml two weeks after starting 300mg of testosterone and 300mg of primobolan, both at unknown esters.

Is there any further information available?

I don't see a follow up test. I don't see a baseline test.

Sorry, I have 2 threads. this one was mainly done to show stan's blood work of his product .
I should have disclosed that test is test C and Primo E

1st Cycle. Test/HGH/Primo +possible var? Then return to TRT. 16-20 week cycle

I know I will get heat for running multiple substances but I am ok with my decision. I am open for input and whats done and initated. I will keep this as a log to see how my body reacts, responds, any mood swings. My wife is in full support of this and knows I am doing my research to minimize...

thinksteroids.com

 

[paddy_juan]

But as I have asked and seems no one can answer. Dossnt it turn into a non measurable form of estrogen?

I mean, I decided to start shbg for estrogen support as well to keep something a little more consistent. I have a large range to increase right now to see how it affects me.

Dbol makes my e2 go crazy, it levels out pretty quickly after stopping

And even if it does convert somewhat to a non measurable form of estrogen, it's still estrogen and would give you all the benefits your looking for.

 

[Rido]

Dbol makes my e2 go crazy, it levels out pretty quickly after stopping

And even if it does convert somewhat to a non measurable form of estrogen, it's still estrogen and would give you all the benefits your looking for.

I guess I am a little iffy on it as I would rather take a pure form. I cannot find any studies that state if methylestradiol will help produce SHBG? I guess I cannot justify to take another anabolic to control the primo. Especially something that isnt measurable for me. It looks like anadrol would atleast turn into straight e2, but I am not touching that either.

 

[paddy_juan]

I guess I am a little iffy on it as I would rather take a pure form. I cannot find any studies that state if methylestradiol will help produce SHBG? I guess I cannot justify to take another anabolic to control the primo. Especially something that isnt measurable for me. It looks like anadrol would atleast turn into straight e2, but I am not touching that either.

I don't think anadrol aromatizes at all, but it directly stimulates estrogen receptors

I've never heard what your saying about dbol, but from pulling bloods on myself, it absolutely aromatizes to e2 which is measurable and controlled with an ai.

I would never take birth control or e2, even if I wasn't a heavy aromatizer.

 

[Rido]

I would never take birth control or e2, even if I wasn't a heavy aromatizer.

thats fine if you dont. it didnt do anything to my estradiol levels anyways. It was a last ditch effort to try to increase my estrogen/shbg.
There are actually a few posters here that utilize estradiol pills to assist with estrogen increase. It is very safe.

The main reason is to metabolize it into SHBG as it is not a systemic therapy.

Even there this one has studies.

Effects of ethinyloestradiol on plasma levels of pituitary gonadotrophins, testicular steroids and sex hormone binding globulin in normal men - PubMed

Daily measurements of plasma FSH, LH, prolactin, testosterone, 17 beta-oestradiol and sex hormone binding globulin (SHBG) activity were made in eight healthy, normal men during treatment with oral ethinyloestradiol (EE2) in a dose of 30 micrograms/day for 5 days following a 5-day control period...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/full/10.1161/hy1101.095006

in regards to DBOL that is good you can detect it. if you look at other people here its very controversial about the molecule that it converts to. There is a bunch of random talks here on the search, I cant find any hard evidence so that is why I didnt opt to go that route.

methylestradiol mesorx site:thinksteroids.com - Google Search

 

[Para_33]

thats fine if you dont. it didnt do anything to my estradiol levels anyways. It was a last ditch effort to try to increase my estrogen/shbg.
There are actually a few posters here that utilize estradiol pills to assist with estrogen increase. It is very safe.

The main reason is to metabolize it into SHBG as it is not a systemic therapy.

Even there this one has studies.

Effects of ethinyloestradiol on plasma levels of pituitary gonadotrophins, testicular steroids and sex hormone binding globulin in normal men - PubMed

Daily measurements of plasma FSH, LH, prolactin, testosterone, 17 beta-oestradiol and sex hormone binding globulin (SHBG) activity were made in eight healthy, normal men during treatment with oral ethinyloestradiol (EE2) in a dose of 30 micrograms/day for 5 days following a 5-day control period...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/full/10.1161/hy1101.095006

in regards to DBOL that is good you can detect it. if you look at other people here its very controversial about the molecule that it converts to. There is a bunch of random talks here on the search, I cant find any hard evidence so that is why I didnt opt to go that route.

methylestradiol mesorx site:thinksteroids.com - Google Search

I’m looking to do the exact same thing for the same reason.

Essentially, similar doses of test/Primo had the same effect on my E2 and SHBG, though just not to as significant a degree because my primo dose was lower, and that might be why.

I was also doing 350mg testE per week and 210mg Primo per week. Split into daily dosages

I have test results, but I will be repeating them because I stopped dosing primo all together for 7 days prior to blood draw. I also skipped 4 days in a row of Test E injections and then resumed Test E but at 100mg for the 3 days leading to the blood draw.

Long story short, i would need to redo this to see exactly how significantly my fairly low e2 -25pg/ml and fairly low SHBG 20.9 nm/L (down from 45)

But I also would want you to have estradiol valerate or cypionate on hand before continuing with it.

For now I just haven’t added the primo back in.

I also aromatize low and have experience high platelets instead of high HCT/HBG.

Curious to know how this went for you.

 

[Rido]

I’m looking to do the exact same thing for the same reason.

Essentially, similar doses of test/Primo had the same effect on my E2 and SHBG, though just not to as significant a degree because my primo dose was lower, and that might be why.

I was also doing 350mg testE per week and 210mg Primo per week. Split into daily dosages

I have test results, but I will be repeating them because I stopped dosing primo all together for 7 days prior to blood draw. I also skipped 4 days in a row of Test E injections and then resumed Test E but at 100mg for the 3 days leading to the blood draw.

Long story short, i would need to redo this to see exactly how significantly my fairly low e2 -25pg/ml and fairly low SHBG 20.9 nm/L (down from 45)

But I also would want you to have estradiol valerate or cypionate on hand before continuing with it.

For now I just haven’t added the primo back in.

I also aromatize low and have experience high platelets instead of high HCT/HBG.

Curious to know how this went for you.

I hate to say all these efforts failed me.

I switched from primo to mast. negative effects went away
poor libido. irritability. jealousy.



but oily skin started building up. I didnt have as clean of a look. even at a higher BF I noticed a difference between mast and primo. Might be because of the lower e2.

Threesomes picked up with the wife as I have been less irritable.

If I use Primo again, I may use it for the AI effects rather than the muscle building effects.

Thats funny. I have been looking for someone else that had a high PLT. after 6 months my HGB did finally jump to 16. it was 14 one month ago.(crazy)

 

[Para_33]

I hate to say all these efforts failed me.

I switched from primo to mast. negative effects went away
poor libido. irritability. jealousy.



but oily skin started building up. I didnt have as clean of a look. even at a higher BF I noticed a difference between mast and primo. Might be because of the lower e2.

Threesomes picked up with the wife as I have been less irritable.

If I use Primo again, I may use it for the AI effects rather than the muscle building effects.

Thats funny. I have been looking for someone else that had a high PLT. after 6 months my HGB did finally jump to 16. it was 14 one month ago.(crazy)

Ok thanks for that.

I got some injectable estradiol cypionate. I might try adding in .25-0.5mg per week.

I’m on 525ish test E/ 630mg nandrolone Decanoate and my E2 still feels like middle of the range at best even with no Ai or primo.

So if I were to add a DHT, I think I’m one who would for sure need to have exogenous e2 in the picture.

Depending on my test, I know it’s rediculious to say, but I might even benefit from adding it in now lol. Interested to see my exact sensitive e2 in a few days on 525/630mg test/Deca per week. Split daily. I add in a week at a time sometimes 2 weeks at a time Tren A 200-600mg as well. I like to see how it affects metformin.

I have oily skin and had shoulder acne the first 3-4 weeks but that’s gotten better now. My skin is still oily but the acne has gone away by maybe 50%.

 

[Rido]

Ok thanks for that.

I got some injectable estradiol cypionate. I might try adding in .25-0.5mg per week.

I’m on 525ish test E/ 630mg nandrolone Decanoate and my E2 still feels like middle of the range at best even with no Ai or primo.

So if I were to add a DHT, I think I’m one who would for sure need to have exogenous e2 in the picture.

Depending on my test, I know it’s rediculious to say, but I might even benefit from adding it in now lol. Interested to see my exact sensitive e2 in a few days on 525/630mg test/Deca per week. Split daily. I add in a week at a time sometimes 2 weeks at a time Tren A 200-600mg as well. I like to see how it affects metformin.

I have oily skin and had shoulder acne the first 3-4 weeks but that’s gotten better now. My skin is still oily but the acne has gone away by maybe 50%.

Not all dht wouldnt cause that need of estrogen supplementation. Mast is does seem to reduce some of the estrogenic receptors on the body. That what it's original intentions were. And supposively based off of an old study, it affected prolactin secretion. I am still new and speaking based off of the science part of it but I have yet to incorporate nandrolone into my regimen.


primo has the ai-like response.
EQ(not dht) concerts more to e1.
I think dhb might act like a mild AI(unsure.
Mast can dry you out as it affects e2 receptors as well. They did a study and it affected healthy breast tissue. Kind of why people anectodally stated it helped with gyno.

What is your e2 at?

 

[Para_33]

Not all dht wouldnt cause that need of estrogen supplementation. Mast is does seem to reduce some of the estrogenic receptors on the body. That what it's original intentions were. And supposively based off of an old study, it affected prolactin secretion. I am still new and speaking based off of the science part of it but I have yet to incorporate nandrolone into my regimen.


primo has the ai-like response.
EQ(not dht) concerts more to e1.
I think dhb might act like a mild AI(unsure.
Mast can dry you out as it affects e2 receptors as well. They did a study and it affected healthy breast tissue. Kind of why people anectodally stated it helped with gyno.

What is your e2 at?

I’m getting another e2 test and should have the results in a few days.

But when I was running 340mg test per week and 210 mg primo per week, My e2 was 24pg/ml.

So very low e2 for that dose of test I would think. Primo was the only Ai control I had. Wasn’t using any AI pills.

I think it was daily dosing that caused this.

My next results I’ll post in a few days when they get sent to me and that will be results while on the current 500mg + test and 630mg nandrolone.

Nandrolone increases conversion of testosterone to e2. So I’m expecting to have higher levels this time. But I have no symptoms of it.

 

[malfeasance]

Nandrolone increases conversion of testosterone to e2.

Interesting, how does that work?

 

[Para_33]

Interesting, how does that work?

More could be known possibly about the subject. But here is my pitch and understanding:

-All I know off the top of my head is based on all anecdotal reporting with essentially everybody who gets LC/MS high sensitivity testing of E2 and Total Testosterone . But In this case It’s like the strongest of anecdotes I’ve seen with everyone seeming to agree this is the case and good theory behind it.

- The theory is Nandrolone, while it doesn’t aromatize itself, Nandrolone acts as a cofactor that aids Aromatization of Test into Estrogen.

-Nandrolone is actually technically Bioidentical like testosterone and Estradiol. When Testosterone undergoes aromatization to estradiol, nandrolone is actually an intermediary compound that’s created during the process.
- while there is no accepted or published reference range for an amount of natural nandrolone in the body, it is scientifically certain that nandrolone is present in the body at some level just due to it being an intermediary hormone during the aromatization of Testosterone to Estradiol.

Exactly how nandrolone works as a cofactor to increase testosterone’s aromatization I’m not sure.

Me personally, I have a weird problem it seems, that I’ve never seen anyone else have, but I have extremely low E2 no matter what I do. I’m getting tested again with high sensitivity, but even on 340mg testosterone enanthate per week, I only had a 24pg/ml estradiol. Range (8-35 pg/ml).

My hope is to add nandrolone and see my e2 rise, so this will be my first time experiencing this for my own body. And I will report back either way if your curious.

 

[Rido]

More could be known possibly about the subject. But here is my pitch and understanding:

-All I know off the top of my head is based on all anecdotal reporting with essentially everybody who gets LC/MS high sensitivity testing of E2 and Total Testosterone . But In this case It’s like the strongest of anecdotes I’ve seen with everyone seeming to agree this is the case and good theory behind it.

- The theory is Nandrolone, while it doesn’t aromatize itself, Nandrolone acts as a cofactor that aids Aromatization of Test into Estrogen.

-Nandrolone is actually technically Bioidentical like testosterone and Estradiol. When Testosterone undergoes aromatization to estradiol, nandrolone is actually an intermediary compound that’s created during the process.
- while there is no accepted or published reference range for an amount of natural nandrolone in the body, it is scientifically certain that nandrolone is present in the body at some level just due to it being an intermediary hormone during the aromatization of Testosterone to Estradiol.

Exactly how nandrolone works as a cofactor to increase testosterone’s aromatization I’m not sure.

Me personally, I have a weird problem it seems, that I’ve never seen anyone else have, but I have extremely low E2 no matter what I do. I’m getting tested again with high sensitivity, but even on 340mg testosterone enanthate per week, I only had a 24pg/ml estradiol. Range (8-35 pg/ml).

My hope is to add nandrolone and see my e2 rise, so this will be my first time experiencing this for my own body. And I will report back either way if your curious.

I believe that it rises on sensitive but doing w 19nor you should be doing an ultrasensitive e2 test

 

[Trapjunky]

Could have supplemented dhea and pregnelone for higher estradiol.. or even added some hcg

 

[Rido]

Could have supplemented dhea and pregnelone for higher estradiol.. or even added some hcg

I did all 3. I took e2 pills sublingually. No budge

 

[Trapjunky]

I did all 3. I took e2 pills sublingually. No budge

and if u were to run primo in the future how would u run it?? 2:1 Ratio maybe? Jus curious

 

[Para_33]

I believe that it rises on sensitive but doing w 19nor you should be doing an ultrasensitive e2 test

Hm. I think that is what I took, I could be wrong. It is the test given to me by my trt doctor who’s prescribed the nandrolone. It’s the ultra sensitive test.

Is there multiple types of LC/MS? I got the most sensitive test labcorp offers.

It’s weird man. Low e2 was actually why I got on trt and tried a hormone of any kind. I got trt because of low e2 oddly despite having a close to 500 total T naturally. And my e2 was only 4.5pg/ml then.

Even my dad when he got on trt had a 261 total T and his estrogen was still higher than mine lol.

I wonder if it’s possible to have a legit aromatase deficiency or something because I’ve never heard of anyone else having this issue.

Forget about adding a DHT derivative, I can’t even drop my test dose down to 250mg per week or below without my estrogen dropping below the reference range. Even when my total T is at 1000+

And I am aware how fucked Up that sounds lol.

I’m still waiting on my most recent test, it should be sent to me any day now. It’s been 11 days. So shouldn’t be much longer.

This result comming in a few days is the test I took to confirm this issue.

like assuming I did indeed take the right test, which I’m almost certain I did, having that low of e2 with the ammount of gear I’m on, that would be super messed up right? Lol

 

[Para_33]

Could have supplemented dhea and pregnelone for higher estradiol.. or even added some hcg

I’m on 1500 IU hcg. I even take 75 IU HMG every month or so. and I’m also 30mg Dhea and Pregnenolone daily actually.

 

[Para_33]

I did all 3. I took e2 pills sublingually. No budge

Damn, the e2 sublingual didn’t work? That’s crazy.

Do you know what kind of estrogen ?
Was it ethinyl estradiol or estradiol valerate ?

Because if ethinyl estradiol, the dose on that is in the microgram range and a bit lower than valerate.

I want to get estradiol cypionate/enanthate or estradiol valerate injectable and use that.

Probably start at .5 mg per week