Bloodwork after 10 weeks of 250mg Test Cyp

[Sicsemptyran]

?????

Sorry but i'm trying to understand if we're seeing the same bloodwork. The one in the first page says 34 AST and 57 ALT. If that's what you're seeing then you're totally wrong, these are pretty solid liver enzymes for someone who's just working out, not even mention taking steroids and more specific orals.

AST and ALT can go up to 2000+ before serious damage occur, usually it would be good to search further if both are above 100-130 for more than 2-3 months straight.

Best liver function indicator marker is γ-gt. If this is at normal levels and optimally below 30 then AST and ALT on 70's or 80's is not a reason to be stressed about.

there’s another set on the first page after he mentioned taking winstrol and anavar. AST in the low 100s, ALT in the high 200s.

 

[Eddie.]

there’s another set on the first page after he mentioned taking winstrol and anavar. AST in the low 100s, ALT in the high 200s.

Jeez, i'm fakking blind xD

Thanks. I still wonder though why many guys don't check their ggt. A 100 and 250 is high, no doubt, but usually after stopping them they drop down quickly.

Point is to take precaution and start NAC or/and some tudca along with the orals to prevent liver stress and not try to lower them after they gone up high. Makes no sense.

 

[Sicsemptyran]

Thanks. I still wonder though why many guys don't check their ggt. A 100 and 250 is high, no doubt, but usually after stopping them they drop down quickly.

Once you get outside of basic hormones, a CBC, CMP, and lipid panel, people seem to check jack shit.

GGT, cystatin-C, CRP, A1C, fasting insulin, Apo-B, lp(a), etc etc etc. There’s a bunch of “is this a problem?” or “can I do this?” type questions that could be answered by going one step deeper.

 

[Uncle Bub]

No offense man but when you’re rocking winstrol and anavar, it’s not the 40mg of telmisartan causing the problems here. You’ve now stimulated your bone marrow enough that it isn’t able to keep up with getting enough hemoglobin in each red blood cell hence why you have that additional additional item out of range.

You need to lose weight, like a lot of it. Your existing testosterone level for someone that overweight and who had lost that much weight already really wasn’t bad, you should’ve just kept dropping the weight and your bloodwork would almost assuredly look better.

If you don’t currently use a CPAP I’d bet a house that you have sleep apnea as well at that weight + the anabolics. I’d take @malfeasance’s advice and just drop the T to a completely normal level and just keep losing weight. Steroids aren’t great for health, so haphazardly throwing them around while you’re already not healthy is just a stupid idea. Your body is showing you multiple signals telling you to stop doing this.

Don't disagree with any of that. I do have sleep apnea and I do have a cpap but I don't use it. I tried but I just can't get used to it or comfortable enough to use it every night. I've tried all kinds of masks and just can't find one that will let me stick with it.

 

[HUGE McBIGLARGE]

I would donate blood. Keep losing fat so the E2 goes down. And maybe take an AI to get in it check till it does go down. If you wait for symptoms that means damage has already been done. I am more into preventative then reactive when dealing with life.

What would you suggest if someone has high e2, but after taking an AI and still having high (albeit not as high) E2, they now develop the side effects of AI use?

In other words, which is better?:
1: asymptomatic hyperestradiolemia
2: AI-induced euestradiolemia, with adverse symptoms

I am currently experimenting with AI use, and I am of the opinion that I feel better with unfettered e2

I am tempted to go with the “in range = good” doctrine, but I’m yet to see evidence suggesting hyperestradiolemia is causative rather than predictive of deleterious health. So without any evidence, I trust feels more than reference ranges.

 

[buck]

What would you suggest if someone has high e2, but after taking an AI and still having high (albeit not as high) E2, they now develop the side effects of AI use?

In other words, which is better?:
1: asymptomatic hyperestradiolemia
2: AI-induced euestradiolemia, with adverse symptoms

I am currently experimenting with AI use, and I am of the opinion that I feel better with unfettered e2

I am tempted to go with the “in range = good” doctrine, but I’m yet to see evidence suggesting hyperestradiolemia is causative rather than predictive of deleterious health. So without any evidence, I trust feels more than reference ranges.

Feeling and health do not necessarily go hand in hand. People can feel great with high blood pressure.

What side effects are you actually having from the AI.
Are you self diagnosed or did a professional do that for those conditions you mentioned?

In general to lower E2 getting leaner or dropping the dosage of T would be a way to lower E2

 

[HUGE McBIGLARGE]

Feeling and health do not necessarily go hand in hand. People can feel great with high blood pressure.

Yeah but do they feel better with hypertension compared to being normotensive?

What side effects are you actually having from the AI.

Based on my so-far-very-limited data, when I take an AI at a dose sufficient to get my e2 nearly in range I notice the following:

-skeletal tissue aches and pains. This happens very quickly, and goes very quickly after cessation; usually within a few days. I do the same workout every day, so I notice very quickly when things hurt more than usual. I also seem to have less energy, but that could be due to the pain. After stopping an AI completely I can do my workouts with absolutely zero pain, other than from injuries

-lower libido. This one is a little harder to gauge, as libido is very psychological, but based on the numbers I’ve gathered so far there seems to be a correlation here.

-more anxiety. Again, hard to gauge.

I’m going to try alternating between something like 3mg anastrozole PW and 1mg. I’ll switch between doses every few months and record the feels using a feels collection sheet I’ve made. It’s all numbers based, and recorded daily, so it should be easy to get some useful data from it.

Are you self diagnosed or did a professional do that for those conditions you mentioned?

Self diagnosed. If I told my doctor what I take their response would be to not take it and then boot me out the door.

 

[buck]

Yeah but do they feel better with hypertension compared to being normotensive?


Based on my so-far-very-limited data, when I take an AI at a dose sufficient to get my e2 nearly in range I notice the following:

-skeletal tissue aches and pains. This happens very quickly, and goes very quickly after cessation; usually within a few days. I do the same workout every day, so I notice very quickly when things hurt more than usual. I also seem to have less energy, but that could be due to the pain. After stopping an AI completely I can do my workouts with absolutely zero pain, other than from injuries

-lower libido. This one is a little harder to gauge, as libido is very psychological, but based on the numbers I’ve gathered so far there seems to be a correlation here.

-more anxiety. Again, hard to gauge.

I’m going to try alternating between something like 3mg anastrozole PW and 1mg. I’ll switch between doses every few months and record the feels using a feels collection sheet I’ve made. It’s all numbers based, and recorded daily, so it should be easy to get some useful data from it.


Self diagnosed. If I told my doctor what I take their response would be to not take it and then boot me out the door.

Is that 3mg/week?

25 year of dr prescribed TRT. My E2 started slowly going up after 15 years. Then a year or so ago took a big jump from 30's to around 100 on 100mg/week of Test. With every thing else the same. Now using .5mg 3x week my E2 is around 50. So 3 mg a week would be very high for most people.

Have you tried other AI's Other then Anastrozole. I have seen studies that show some women when using it for cancer treat build up a tolerance and need to change to another AI.and some times even use 2 different ones.

 

[HUGE McBIGLARGE]

Is that 3mg/week?

yeah

So 3 mg a week would be very high for most people.

Im a very high aromatiser, it seems.

Have you tried other AI's Other then Anastrozole. I have seen studies that show some women when using it for cancer treat build up a tolerance and need to change to another AI.and some times even use 2 different ones.

I’ve tried exemestane. 12.5mg exemestane a day was maybe 30% less effective than 0.5mg anastrozole a day.

Anastrozole and exemestane have never been particularly effective for me. I tested my e2 within a month of my first dose of both anastrozole and exemestane, and based on those historical measurements, it wasn’t more effective then than it is now.

AIs being ineffective at lowering my e2 is partly why I’d ideally prefer to not take them if I feel better off of them. Is mass and indiscriminate aromatase inhibition preferable to my e2 being 8x what’s normal? Not sure.

 

[buck]

yeah


Im a very high aromatiser, it seems.

I’ve tried exemestane. 12.5mg exemestane a day was maybe 30% less effective than 0.5mg anastrozole a day.

Anastrozole and exemestane have never been particularly effective for me. I tested my e2 within a month of my first dose of both anastrozole and exemestane, and based on those historical measurements, it wasn’t more effective then than it is now.

AIs being ineffective at lowering my e2 is partly why I’d ideally prefer to not take them if I feel better off of them. Is mass and indiscriminate aromatase inhibition preferable to my e2 being 8x what’s normal? Not sure.

I would guess you tried letrozole as well.

There are supplements like Naringin that have studies showing they lower aromatase activity. There are 2 other also as i remember. May want to research them.

The few small studies i have seen are not great but show E2 even at the upper end of the range or higher points to long term negative downsides health wise.

We all have our own comfort zones. I like to keep my E2 in range.

 

[HUGE McBIGLARGE]

I would guess you tried letrozole as well.

Nah. That’s next, though

There are supplements like Naringin that have studies showing they lower aromatase activity. There are 2 other also as i remember. May want to research them.

Wouldn’t they work the same as an AI though? Thus making them a bit pointless when I have an AI on hand.

Interestingly, Naringin is meant to be in grapefruit. And I drink loads of grapefruit juice. Very strange.

The few small studies i have seen are not great but show E2 even at the upper end of the range or higher points to long term negative downsides health wise.

Yeah I’ve seen loads, but they’re all correlative. Eugonadal men with high e2 have something wrong with them beyond just high e2.

Thanks for your input, man!