Bodybuilding training: HIT vs Volume training with and without AAS

[GoldenJ77]

Hey everyone ive been researching training methods a lot and sifting through all the information can become a little confusing at times. I was just wondering about some of your opinions on volume training versus Dorian Yates style HIT training. Which do you prefer and what kind of results have you seen with the different methods? Is one better than the other paired with the use of AAS? I know a lot of this is personal preference and "whatever works for you" but just wanted to see some other opinions. Thanks guys.

 

[Switcher]

People who have been lifting a long while have to do both. It's all about the principle of muscle confusion. Everything is a tool in the box to be used to stimulate growth and improvement.

 

[gr8whitetrukker]

I found volume training to be completely and utterly useless as a natural.

 

[GoldenJ77]

I found volume training to be completely and utterly useless as a natural.

Thats kind of what I have found. Still natural at the moment and want to dial everything in before hopping on my first cycle. But with anabolics which would I find more beneficial? whih would i put on the most mass and appearence with? In a bodybuilding setting. I want to achieve a big physique. Strength is not my main concern.

 

[gr8whitetrukker]

Thats kind of what I have found. Still natural at the moment and want to dial everything in before hopping on my first cycle. But with anabolics which would I find more beneficial? whih would i put on the most mass and appearence with? In a bodybuilding setting. I want to achieve a big physique. Strength is not my main concern.

Everything works on AAS

 

[Docd187123]

People who have been lifting a long while have to do both. It's all about the principle of muscle confusion. Everything is a tool in the box to be used to stimulate growth and improvement.

It's really nothing to do with muscle confusion.

 

[Docd187123]

HIT is a misnomer. It's really not high intensity as intensity is a percentage of your 1RM and when you're doing as many reps as HIT calls for it's really low to medium intensity.

What are your goals?

 

[GoldenJ77]

HIT is a misnomer. It's really not high intensity as intensity is a percentage of your 1RM and when you're doing as many reps as HIT calls for it's really low to medium intensity.

What are your goals?

My goals are to pack on muscle mass. Im not so concerned with strength. Love bodybuilding and want to up my weight and muscle size.

 

[MrRippedZilla]

If by HIT training your referring to the classic 1 set to failure stuff then no - that is a waste of time as a natural.

Volume training is best way to get far if you remember that volume is actually weight x reps x sets.
I've yet to meet a single successful natural bodybuilder who doesn't progressively increase volume as the years go by.

 

[gr8whitetrukker]

If by HIT training your referring to the classic 1 set to failure stuff then no - that is a waste of time as a natural.

Volume training is best way to get far if you remember that volume is actually weight x reps x sets.
I've yet to meet a single successful natural bodybuilder who doesn't progressively increase volume as the years go by.

The classic heavy duty is perfect for a natural because its emphasis on recovery. That is the biggest down fall of natural lifting. In fact I owe so much to heavy duty and it's principles. It wasn't until I got away from 4-6 day a week splits of training every muscle group (volume approach) that I made my best gains. Hell during heavy duty I was only working out every 3rd day

 

[Switcher]

It's really nothing to do with muscle confusion.

With such a statement, one should provide a much more clear explanation of the disagreement.

 

[MrRippedZilla]

The classic heavy duty is perfect for a natural because its emphasis on recovery. That is the biggest down fall of natural lifting. In fact I owe so much to heavy duty and it's principles. It wasn't until I got away from 4-6 day a week splits of training every muscle group (volume approach) that I made my best gains. Hell during heavy duty I was only working out every 3rd day

I think the word "perfect" is wrong.

As I said before, I coach natural bbers for a living and I've yet to meet a single successful competitor who does that sort of training.
Then you have the fact that the scientific evidence as a whole pretty much shits all over HIT (search for James Krieger's meta-analysis for more info).

Focusing on recovery is fine, but not if it means sacrificing growth ESPECIALLY when it comes to the highest levels.
The biggest down fall of natural lifting isn't a lack of recovery, its a lack of programming. That is why most top coaches are now learning from OL & PLers in order to develop better programmes utilizing the latest periodization methods.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it doesn't work - any form of training that focuses on progressive overload will work.
I'm saying its not optimal for naturals.

 

[Docd187123]

With such a statement, one should provide a much more clear explanation of the disagreement.

Muscle's don't become "confused". There is a level of stress they're adapted up to and a level beyond they're not. You provide too little stress and homeostasis isn't disrupted enough to cause adaptation or progress. You provide the right amount of stress and the muscles respond by adapting to it. You provide too much stress and the muscle's and your body's recovery abilities are not able to keep up. Stress can be added through weight on the bar, reps, sets, TUT, etc. You don't keep mixing things up for the hell of it to "confuse" a non-conscious piece of tissue. Doing so ensures you'll stop doing things that work or could possibly work better even.

 

[evarthecaveman]

Muscle's don't become "confused".

Are you trying to say my muscles don't have a brain?

 

[Ahmad90]

Ive tried both and it really is different for everyone. The bigger thing is mind muscle
Connection. I guess i could gain more strength using dorians style but the chance of injury is also much higher! I enjoy volume training and making my muscles swell with blood so i do that. Do whatever makes you happy. The problem is that ppl think high volume is less intense. It is less intense than low volume style, but it should still be intense. If i could put it on a scale low volume/Dorians style intensity should be a 9.9.5/10 while high volume Arnold style should be a 7-8/10. Both will work. Just do the one that motivates you the most!

 

[Switcher]

Muscle's don't become "confused". There is a level of stress they're adapted up to and a level beyond they're not. You provide too little stress and homeostasis isn't disrupted enough to cause adaptation or progress. You provide the right amount of stress and the muscles respond by adapting to it. You provide too much stress and the muscle's and your body's recovery abilities are not able to keep up. Stress can be added through weight on the bar, reps, sets, TUT, etc. You don't keep mixing things up for the hell of it to "confuse" a non-conscious piece of tissue. Doing so ensures you'll stop doing things that work or could possibly work better even.

Your discussion of stress and changing the stress the muscle experiences is what some of us call confusion. Granted, as you said, you cannot confuse a muscle, you can change the stress it is experiencing or how it is experiencing that stress, depending on one's interpretations.

Changing from a higher volume lower intensity to a lower volume higher intensity is changing TUT, changing reps, and changing sets as well as changing weight being used. I would add that changing exercises or even how exercises are being performed is also beneficial.

Beyond that, I am fine with my word choice even if others disagree or do not like it. We all explain things the way we believe we best express ourselves.

 

[Ahmad90]

I found volume training to be completely and utterly useless as a natural.

From day one of lifting i started off with volume training. No 5x5s or anything. I occasionaly switches over to HIT training but was met with injuries. I built my base almost completely with volume training. I wasnt strong af but i was bigger than most people with the same amount of weightlifting experience as me. I can still only squat 315 like 3-5 times and deadlift 405 only once but my legs and back look like they can squat/dead 400-500lbs. My arms react so damn well to high volume training vs hit training, i have been doing supersets for arms now for months and the gains are good.

 

[weighted chinup]

I don't like referring to certain programs as 'volume' training. Volume is just a variable, not a training style, and neglecting this variable out of some misguided belief is not ideal, neither is neglecting other variables like frequency or intensity / percentage of 1rm.

That being said, volume is a very important variable for drug free lifters. Drug free lifters need to be lifting with as much weekly volume as they can and ideally they should take a dual factor approach to recovery to manage the fatigue accumulated from the high weekly volume. This is assuming the lifter is at a stage in their development where linear progression is not ideal.

The absence of periodization in their training is probably why some drug free lifters have shitty results with high volume routines. I think when most guys refer to volume training they refer to a typical bro-split routine. The volume isn't what makes these routines ineffective, it's the low frequency, lack of periodization, low intensity, etc. They are just shitty routines in general. Guys have success with these programs on AAS but that's because AAS will make anything viable.

The solution to the recovery issue from such high weekly volume isn't an extreme single-factor approach to recovery. Taking a dual factor approach to recovery solves this problem, there is no need to use extremely low volume or low frequency when periodization techniques are included in training to manage fatigue.

Drug free lifters should also be increasing their total volume as their capacity to do work increases. Example if you are lifting with a 10RM and you do 50 total reps for a certain movement using this intensity, you should try an add an extra 10 reps to your total tonnage for that movement after a year or so. Increasing total volume as needed is ideal to making optimal progress drug free.

 

[Switcher]

I agree regarding the need for some amount of volume for drug free bodybuilders but there has to be an upper limit less the 30 year lifter be doing 50 sets just for forearms, etc...

In fact, as I have aged, and moved into being middle-aged, my volume has dropped some simply because old guys do not recover like young ones do. I do suppose though that volume could remain higher but the rest period between workouts would need to be increased. Change one variable as you change the other to remain in balance and all-the dual factor approach. I do believe you could do that though as long as ceilings and floors were maintained.