Boosting estrogen

[Ricci]

Can progesterone cream up ur e2 ?

 

[cmK9s33]

Is this thread for real?? You could always turn on Hallmark, have a wine spritzer and pop a clomid for surety... I would not recommend Lifetime as it may spike test even higher, but should you choose to go that route add a pinch of Caber just to be on the safe side...

A POINT I AM MAKING is that that USED TO BE A RULE AROUND HERE. That a person must provide personal body stats, drugs they take, drug/diagnosis history, diet, exercise habits (or not)... Based on the first post this person could be from Venus or Mars and upon his arrival to Earth, found that they love to eat marshmallows while manipulating their genitalia progressively on the couch... Specifically a futon. AND yet you all sit here offering advice...

So let me take a crack at it. Yer 31, 6'tall, all of 150lbs, you run ALOT, and you like a vegan diet high in cumquat... HOWEVER, you appear to think the details of your like are quite inconsequential... Guessing further, your father was a relentlessly self-improving boulangerie owner from Belgium with low grade narcolepsy and a penchant for buggery and your mother was a 15 year old prostitute named Chloe with webbed feet. Your father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius posses and the insane lament. Your childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon. Luge lessons...In the springtime you would make meat helmets.. When you were insolent you were placed in burlap bag and beaten with reeds as standard. At the age of 12 you received your first scribe and at 14 a Zoroastrian named Vilma ritualistically shaved your testicles. You are a professional dancer as well as a part time E.R. MD....

Just a friendly REALITY CHECK. I don't recall his name but he ran around this board citing all kinds of hormonal insanity all to find out he was a psyche diagnosed anorexic with chicken stix legs that knocked together as he ran around the mall all day...

Come on...

How remarkably helpful. Although I did learn what a boulangerie is. So, I guess that's not zero.

If it helps appease you at all, 37 yo, 5'8", 207 lbs, despise running but weight train 5 days and throw in a cardio session 4-5 ttimes a week after weights. Now please continue being unhelpful.

 

[cmK9s33]

Damn you have like no aromataze activity....i havent heard of anything to do for that except getting some estrified e2. The only reason thats a high cruise dose is because of your blood work. Everybody metabolises estrified test at different rates. You could probably get away with 150mg. I wonder if throwing in a little dbol or deca would help with the e2. I heard a few different things but the consensus is deca can increase your e2 through different means.

I'm sure you're correct that a lower dose of test would suffice if I had anything approaching normal aromatase activity. I'm really reluctant to go down the path of esterfied E2. I'm looking for a long term solution so not interested in the dbol.

Deca? Well, I suppose it's not completely out the realm of possibility. It was/is prescribed for HRT. I believe I've read that nand is technically an intermediate between test and E2. May be mistaking it for something else though.

 

[cmK9s33]

Can progesterone cream up ur e2 ?

Umm, I'm not sure. Not directly but indirectly I don't know. No harm in a little reading though. Thank you.

 

[Deleted member 59947]

Can progesterone cream up ur e2 ?

Progesterone is an antagonistic hormone to e2. It depletes estrogens in tissues.
People have associated progesterone to e2 because of progestins and progestogens which have absolutely nothing to do with bio identical progesterone.

Progesterone Summaries - Progesterone Deceptions - Progesterone Supplementation - Dosage of Progesterone

Ray Peat

raypeat.com

 

[BBC3]

How remarkably helpful. Although I did learn what a boulangerie is. So, I guess that's not zero.

If it helps appease you at all, 37 yo, 5'8", 207 lbs, despise running but weight train 5 days and throw in a cardio session 4-5 times a week after weights. Now please continue being unhelpful.

Better...
That was a quote from and Austin Powers Flick FYI....
Now back on the meat, so to speak. Yer a stout fella but what is it comprised of..?

That's some pretty intensive training depending on your definition of cardio. Especially for a 37 year old. But relax. That will pass with just 3 more years on this planet...
1. We all Despise running, therefore you are proving psychologically sound.. But define "Cardio", are you talking a 20 minute cruise on an elliptical, or 30-40 mins of a stepper.
2. What is your body fat %? Best guess will do. You can add in your bench and squat #'s to help interpolate conditions.
3. Define "Train 5 days"?, what are you doing and in what ways.? Do you settle into a bench press on "chest day", and not leave or deviate till you have rocked 6 sets and then move on? Or are you running round supersetting all kindz a shit?
4. Just how "Lean-to-strong" are you?
5. And this is the big one. What is your DIET. How many calories per day. How many times are you eating them. And WHAT ARE YOU EATING...?
6. Where are you getting your bloodz done? Thru doc or internet mail-ins?

At this point you could be one of two things...:
(a) a fat boy running round the gym like a lunatic never staying focused on one muscle group long enough to develop it and then followed up with minimal cardio posing on the tread next to the hottest puss you can spot, OR....
(b) a fairly lean bastard under 18% body fat with some strength and the ass to still do serious cardio too. Possibly job driven. Maybe even a COP at your age. Have you ever stopped working out your whole life? What is it that drives you to train??

I doubt you are (a) cause you would be plenty fat to drive some estrogen production.

It you ARE indeed case (b), then you must understand, you just cant do all that short of serious competitive training for something specific and you are missing something. When we are young and between 18-25 we can get away with that and have hormones to spare. At your age you are would be fuking with the machine in ways that 99.5% of the population DO NOT. The short on that is you wont generate the estrogens younger fit guys still manage if you work that intensively.

Genetics are a bitch. Look to your elder family and determine if they stay lean with minimal work? Anyone got thyroid issues/ doe their eyes bugg?/ Anyone have diabetes too young and inappropriate?

Again, if you are case (b) and working your ballz off the simplest fix is TO DRINK MORE BEER.... You may just be too intense for too long.

I would not put too much stock in all this talk of Aromasin causing long term low e2 issues...

You MUST Understand. Testosterone is a Joker Card. It will produce EITHER Androgens OR estrogens depending on your physical conditions. The PROBLEM with this is that if you become too lean, the androgens will take precedence at the cellular level and overwhelm the system thus slamming the door shut on estrogen factors.. You would be a little rare in your particular circumstance in that case, but you present unusually rare symptoms. So if you don't want the shoe to fit, change your foot size...

(you can actually shut yer nutz down from too much androgens just the same as you would from too much estrogen from a big fatty bloated cycle. The nuts also make estrogen as well as are a controlling factor feeding back to the brain)

You conditions will most likely hinge around your DIET. Personally I get my e2 just fine and off the charts with plenty of bread and sugars. Sugar is underrated FYI. Especially when you are meeting you caloric base goals. Understand that "protein synthesis" from steroid use requires primarily CALORIES. And that is it. Fat helps too. I sometimes feel protein supplementation may fall at the bottom of the food chain when anabolically supplemented and once baseline feeding is met..

You HGH use is on interest as well. I believe I have read that it will change E and Prolactin relations. It may be the center of your condition. That's pretty progressive for someone as young as you are.

I am attempting to determine if you are real is all. And trying to help via food for thought and not just plugging suggested fixes. YOU know what is wrong and you and are just blind to it because it is YOU which is the issue. So only you can fix. And I most certainly empathize with your low E issues pertaining to joints and all the ugly that comes with this. I cant take a damn Adex more than 2wice a week for 2 weeks and my joints start falling apart.

So I am interested ... Helpfully respectful. CONSIDER ALL OF MY POINTS honestly with yourself.

I'M not looking for you to publish point specific answers to questions. Thats for you. I'm Just giving thought process and if you ping anything you can ask and I can offer what I may have stumbled on over the years.

 

[BBC3]

If this low e2 issue doesn't concern you, you may as well participate in threads that do and deliver your sarcasm over there.

As far as we are concerned, some of us put ourselves in a permanently low estrogen condition resulting from excessive AI intake.

Clomid? Worst advice. The estrogen antagonism in certain tissues such as the brain make this drug a poison, and is certainly not what made me feel better in the past.

I'm not a fan of clomid THAT WAS A JOKE. I'm not a real fan of AI's either as I believe all hormones must rise proportionately for successful growth.

So guys, perhaps you, get so freakin lean and gain so much damn muscle neural axon activation with so many years of training, that estrogens are harder to come by. Personally I have never been that devoted.

But most certainly, I have never heard of in all my years, nor seen in studies long term changes elicited by Exemestane. Contrary to to mental mind fukkery, it turns out that Aromasin/exmstn may be the better of the 2 AI choices in that while it is touted as a "Suicide Inhibitor", this actually makes controlling the action of said medication MORE PREDICTABLE (as opposed to ADEX). And that is perhaps the greatest difference. Neither are great choices for micro-dosing as they are designed to function at blood plasma levels which are baseline to their nature, which is the min dosage (1 or 25mgs) Short of that its an unmanageable crapshoot...

I can not say if Estane is "fat soluble" and there is any change it could saturate deeply into adipose tissue creating a longer term issue. But certainly not probably with guys turning over calories in the gym as we are discussing.

More times than not it will boil down to muscle composition, body fat, and genetics. Its a simple as this many times unfortunately. I cant even touch the stuff and I am 25%BF...

But the POINT that you could run AI's aggressively in the past and not suffer serious side effects AT THAT TIME, only points more to the possibility that your current physical composition so high is muscle density could be the cause. You would be rare but yes I could see it. Cancha take a damn day off already??? Its just a potential implication that if you have become so dense and stout with muscle, that your body is going to gobble up any estrogen in sight to make for growth, or even status quo.. The only cure I see in that case is diet... Gotta take some time and live like the fat folks do for a while. Dbol maybe. Deca I wouldn't say. But def not androgen derivatives.

 

[Deleted member 59947]

Better...
That was a quote from and Austin Powers Flick FYI....
Now back on the meat, so to speak. Yer a stout fella but what is it comprised of..?

That's some pretty intensive training depending on your definition of cardio. Especially for a 37 year old. But relax. That will pass with just 3 more years on this planet...
1. We all Despise running, therefore you are proving psychologically sound.. But define "Cardio", are you talking a 20 minute cruise on an elliptical, or 30-40 mins of a stepper.
2. What is your body fat %? Best guess will do. You can add in your bench and squat #'s to help interpolate conditions.
3. Define "Train 5 days"?, what are you doing and in what ways.? Do you settle into a bench press on "chest day", and not leave or deviate till you have rocked 6 sets and then move on? Or are you running round supersetting all kindz a shit?
4. Just how "Lean-to-strong" are you?
5. And this is the big one. What is your DIET. How many calories per day. How many times are you eating them. And WHAT ARE YOU EATING...?
6. Where are you getting your bloodz done? Thru doc or internet mail-ins?

At this point you could be one of two things...:
(a) a fat boy running round the gym like a lunatic never staying focused on one muscle group long enough to develop it and then followed up with minimal cardio posing on the tread next to the hottest puss you can spot, OR....
(b) a fairly lean bastard under 18% body fat with some strength and the ass to still do serious cardio too. Possibly job driven. Maybe even a COP at your age. Have you ever stopped working out your whole life? What is it that drives you to train??

I doubt you are (a) cause you would be plenty fat to drive some estrogen production.

It you ARE indeed case (b), then you must understand, you just cant do all that short of serious competitive training for something specific and you are missing something. When we are young and between 18-25 we can get away with that and have hormones to spare. At your age you are would be fuking with the machine in ways that 99.5% of the population DO NOT. The short on that is you wont generate the estrogens younger fit guys still manage if you work that intensively.

Genetics are a bitch. Look to your elder family and determine if they stay lean with minimal work? Anyone got thyroid issues/ doe their eyes bugg?/ Anyone have diabetes too young and inappropriate?

Again, if you are case (b) and working your ballz off the simplest fix is TO DRINK MORE BEER.... You may just be too intense for too long.

I would not put too much stock in all this talk of Aromasin causing long term low e2 issues...

You MUST Understand. Testosterone is a Joker Card. It will produce EITHER Androgens OR estrogens depending on your physical conditions. The PROBLEM with this is that if you become too lean, the androgens will take precedence at the cellular level and overwhelm the system thus slamming the door shut on estrogen factors.. You would be a little rare in your particular circumstance in that case, but you present unusually rare symptoms. So if you don't want the shoe to fit, change your foot size...

(you can actually shut yer nutz down from too much androgens just the same as you would from too much estrogen from a big fatty bloated cycle. The nuts also make estrogen as well as are a controlling factor feeding back to the brain)

You conditions will most likely hinge around your DIET. Personally I get my e2 just fine and off the charts with plenty of bread and sugars. Sugar is underrated FYI. Especially when you are meeting you caloric base goals. Understand that "protein synthesis" from steroid use requires primarily CALORIES. And that is it. Fat helps too. I sometimes feel protein supplementation may fall at the bottom of the food chain when anabolically supplemented and once baseline feeding is met..

You HGH use is on interest as well. I believe I have read that it will change E and Prolactin relations. It may be the center of your condition. That's pretty progressive for someone as young as you are.

I am attempting to determine if you are real is all. And trying to help via food for thought and not just plugging suggested fixes. YOU know what is wrong and you and are just blind to it because it is YOU which is the issue. So only you can fix. And I most certainly empathize with your low E issues pertaining to joints and all the ugly that comes with this. I cant take a damn Adex more than 2wice a week for 2 weeks and my joints start falling apart.

So I am interested ... Helpfully respectful. CONSIDER ALL OF MY POINTS honestly with yourself.

I'M not looking for you to publish point specific answers to questions. Thats for you. I'm Just giving thought process and if you ping anything you can ask and I can offer what I may have stumbled on over the years.

You are unwanted in this thread, you may as well stop losing your time now.

Back to serious things @cmK9s33 and @Ridethelightningbarefoot , I'm going to start experimenting with oral test base to see if it's metabolized differently and yields good results.

It's pretty effective:

Oral free/base (unesterified) testosterone is more effective and safer than synthetic AAS – To Extract Knowledge from Matter

 

[Ridethelightningbarefoot]

Why are there studies that the bioavailability is so low its pointless? Thats interesting. That contradicts everyhting. I guess im just gonna start drinking my drugs instead of pinning! No but seriously im interested on what you find. Let us know

 

[Deleted member 59947]

Why are there studies that the bioavailability is so low its pointless? Thats interesting. That contradicts everyhting. I guess im just gonna start drinking my drugs instead of pinning! No but seriously im interested on what you find. Let us know

Those studies have to explain to me by what magic esterless DHEA and esterless Pregnenolone would be perfectly bioavailable orally, but somehow esterless Testosterone isn't...that just doesn't add up, and the study in the link I posted above proves it.

To prove it myself, I will run bloods on 100mg test base powder orally and let everyone know. I should receive my batch from PPL in two weeks.

 

[Ridethelightningbarefoot]

Those studies have to explain to me by what magic esterless DHEA and esterless Pregnenolone would be perfectly bioavailable orally, but somehow esterless Testosterone isn't...that just doesn't add up, and the study in the link I posted above proves it.

To prove it myself, I will run bloods on 100mg test base powder orally and let everyone know. I should receive my batch from PPL in two weeks.

Awesome thanks for sharing. Yea man i read it. Its crazy how fucked up the fda is

 

[TheGreasyPickle]

To be honest I've been playing a lot with the cream and my homemade DMSO solutions recently, I must say scrotal application does cause me low e2 symptoms.
The best remains application on the belly area where I can get the most conversion to e2.
I switch between my compounded cream and Testosterone base in DMSO. I apply around 75mg of pure testosterone to get good e2 effects.

Do you keep using HCG?
Have you tried stopping to know which was giving you benefits between Testosterone and HCG?

Im going to have to try test cream on my belly to see if that can get some more E2 in my system. I've never tried it there. I've actually been out of hcg the last couple weeks, and can't even tell I'm not taking it at this point. I might stay off for a while and see how my body rebalances after the blast, I'm blasting some prop right now.

Im very curious how your experiment with oral test base will work for you. I've debated the exact same thing, but never tried. Please post your results, I'll be following closely. Have you ever read this thread? This sounds interesting as well.

Cyclodextrin encapsulation of testosterone base - any help?

So i got hydroxypropyl beta cyclodextrin, and testosterone base powder. Today i tried to encapsulate the testosterone. I dont think it worked. I followed exactly this procedure Homebrewing with beta cyclodextrins | JuicedMuscle.com Using 10g of HPBCD for 1g of test base. When i initially...

thinksteroids.com

You seem like you enjoy brewing and experimenting, as do I. Have you ever made prop from Synovex H back in the day? There's estradiol benzoate in it. I wonder if we can brew it without stripping the e2 out of it to get some real e2 in us. I wish somebody out there had estradiol raws. I havnt seen any.

 

[cmK9s33]

Better...
That was a quote from and Austin Powers Flick FYI....
Now back on the meat, so to speak. Yer a stout fella but what is it comprised of..?

Oh my mistake. Been years since I've seen it.

That's some pretty intensive training depending on your definition of cardio. Especially for a 37 year old. But relax. That will pass with just 3 more years on this planet...
1. We all Despise running, therefore you are proving psychologically sound.. But define "Cardio", are you talking a 20 minute cruise on an elliptical, or 30-40 mins of a stepper.

Varies between LISS and HIIT depending on how sore I feel that particular day/week. LISS is 30-40 min and I usually rotate every 6 or 7 minutes between machines at the gym (rower, fan bike, run up the stairs and around the indoor track). I'm too ADHD to sit on one machine for 40 minutes. HIIT sessions are usually 10-15 minutes and usually involves a fan bike or sled depending on how much I wanna make myself suffer that day lol.

2. What is your body fat %? Best guess will do. You can add in your bench and squat #'s to help interpolate conditions.

I had a dexa scan about a 9 months ago and it came back at 10.6% but I don't think that's accurate. I just don't feel like I'm that lean. My Monday "self check-in" pic attached if it helps (Sorry for my dog in the background. She was needier than usual that day lol) 385 bench and 565 back squat.

3. Define "Train 5 days"?, what are you doing and in what ways.? Do you settle into a bench press on "chest day", and not leave or deviate till you have rocked 6 sets and then move on? Or are you running round supersetting all kindz a shit?

Currently, 4 days rotating upper/lower and 1 beach day because well you know. On my U/L days I'll do 5-6 sets of the compound movement of choice that day (bench, squat, DL, ohp), another 4-5 sets of an accessory compound movement I feel would be beneficial (pin presses, zercher squats, RDLs, etc) and then finish with an accessory circuit of exercises that further work the area for the day (GHR for example) and some daily assistance work (pullaparts for instance). Beach day is several cirucuits of arm work and side/ rear laterals. Almost always follow this up with one of the HIIT workouts since I have plenty left in the tank compared to the other 4 days.

4. Just how "Lean-to-strong" are you?
5. And this is the big one. What is your DIET. How many calories per day. How many times are you eating them. And WHAT ARE YOU EATING...?

Maintenance-ish calories with 250g protein and fluctuating carbs and fats right now. I know, I know. I can definitely do better here.

6. Where are you getting your bloodz done? Thru doc or internet mail-ins?

Both. I have my semi-annuals done at my doc's request and review, and I get a 3rd and 4th done on my own with more details than my insurance covers.

At this point you could be one of two things...:
(a) a fat boy running round the gym like a lunatic never staying focused on one muscle group long enough to develop it and then followed up with minimal cardio posing on the tread next to the hottest puss you can spot, OR....
(b) a fairly lean bastard under 18% body fat with some strength and the ass to still do serious cardio too. Possibly job driven. Maybe even a COP at your age. Have you ever stopped working out your whole life? What is it that drives you to train??

Definitely a former fat boy (fat kid and teen). Not shredded by any means but I'm pretty damn confident I'm under 18%.

I doubt you are (a) cause you would be plenty fat to drive some estrogen production.

It you ARE indeed case (b), then you must understand, you just cant do all that short of serious competitive training for something specific and you are missing something. When we are young and between 18-25 we can get away with that and have hormones to spare. At your age you are would be fuking with the machine in ways that 99.5% of the population DO NOT. The short on that is you wont generate the estrogens younger fit guys still manage if you work that intensively.

Genetics are a bitch. Look to your elder family and determine if they stay lean with minimal work? Anyone got thyroid issues/ doe their eyes bugg?/ Anyone have diabetes too young and inappropriate?

Genetics and family history are all over the place. Mom's side had several instances of diabetes. Dad's side has multiple instances of cancer. Both had instances of heart disease. Never had diagnosed thyroid problems but both I and my sister have been on thyroid replacement meds for nearly a decade. Different endo's diagnosed us both at nearly the same time. Both of us have goiters (just enlarged glands). Blood work looks good there but my bout with COVID did screw with the blood values pretty significantly for several months.

Again, if you are case (b) and working your ballz off the simplest fix is TO DRINK MORE BEER.... You may just be too intense for too long.

I would not put too much stock in all this talk of Aromasin causing long term low e2 issues...

You MUST Understand. Testosterone is a Joker Card. It will produce EITHER Androgens OR estrogens depending on your physical conditions. The PROBLEM with this is that if you become too lean, the androgens will take precedence at the cellular level and overwhelm the system thus slamming the door shut on estrogen factors.. You would be a little rare in your particular circumstance in that case, but you present unusually rare symptoms. So if you don't want the shoe to fit, change your foot size...

(you can actually shut yer nutz down from too much androgens just the same as you would from too much estrogen from a big fatty bloated cycle. The nuts also make estrogen as well as are a controlling factor feeding back to the brain)

You conditions will most likely hinge around your DIET. Personally I get my e2 just fine and off the charts with plenty of bread and sugars. Sugar is underrated FYI. Especially when you are meeting you caloric base goals. Understand that "protein synthesis" from steroid use requires primarily CALORIES. And that is it. Fat helps too. I sometimes feel protein supplementation may fall at the bottom of the food chain when anabolically supplemented and once baseline feeding is met..

You HGH use is on interest as well. I believe I have read that it will change E and Prolactin relations. It may be the center of your condition. That's pretty progressive for someone as young as you are.

The 3-4iu is not my normal use. It was something I decided to increase for 5 months, but my normal use is 2iu before bed.

I am attempting to determine if you are real is all. And trying to help via food for thought and not just plugging suggested fixes. YOU know what is wrong and you and are just blind to it because it is YOU which is the issue. So only you can fix. And I most certainly empathize with your low E issues pertaining to joints and all the ugly that comes with this. I cant take a damn Adex more than 2wice a week for 2 weeks and my joints start falling apart.

So I am interested ... Helpfully respectful. CONSIDER ALL OF MY POINTS honestly with yourself.

I'M not looking for you to publish point specific answers to questions. Thats for you. I'm Just giving thought process and if you ping anything you can ask and I can offer what I may have stumbled on over the years.

Sorry for getting off on the wrong foot. I do appreciate you taking the time to post.

 

[Deleted member 59947]

Im going to have to try test cream on my belly to see if that can get some more E2 in my system. I've never tried it there. I've actually been out of hcg the last couple weeks, and can't even tell I'm not taking it at this point. I might stay off for a while and see how my body rebalances after the blast, I'm blasting some prop right now.

Im very curious how your experiment with oral test base will work for you. I've debated the exact same thing, but never tried. Please post your results, I'll be following closely. Have you ever read this thread? This sounds interesting as well.

Cyclodextrin encapsulation of testosterone base - any help?

So i got hydroxypropyl beta cyclodextrin, and testosterone base powder. Today i tried to encapsulate the testosterone. I dont think it worked. I followed exactly this procedure Homebrewing with beta cyclodextrins | JuicedMuscle.com Using 10g of HPBCD for 1g of test base. When i initially...

thinksteroids.com

You seem like you enjoy brewing and experimenting, as do I. Have you ever made prop from Synovex H back in the day? There's estradiol benzoate in it. I wonder if we can brew it without stripping the e2 out of it to get some real e2 in us. I wish somebody out there had estradiol raws. I havnt seen any.

If you want straight up estrogen amazon has plenty:

https://www.amazon.com/s?k=estradiol&ref=nb_sb_noss

 

[Deleted member 59947]

Im going to have to try test cream on my belly to see if that can get some more E2 in my system. I've never tried it there. I've actually been out of hcg the last couple weeks, and can't even tell I'm not taking it at this point. I might stay off for a while and see how my body rebalances after the blast, I'm blasting some prop right now.

Im very curious how your experiment with oral test base will work for you. I've debated the exact same thing, but never tried. Please post your results, I'll be following closely. Have you ever read this thread? This sounds interesting as well.

Cyclodextrin encapsulation of testosterone base - any help?

So i got hydroxypropyl beta cyclodextrin, and testosterone base powder. Today i tried to encapsulate the testosterone. I dont think it worked. I followed exactly this procedure Homebrewing with beta cyclodextrins | JuicedMuscle.com Using 10g of HPBCD for 1g of test base. When i initially...

thinksteroids.com

You seem like you enjoy brewing and experimenting, as do I. Have you ever made prop from Synovex H back in the day? There's estradiol benzoate in it. I wonder if we can brew it without stripping the e2 out of it to get some real e2 in us. I wish somebody out there had estradiol raws. I havnt seen any.

To my great amazement PPL has some stock in Europe now so my test base should be here next week.
Will take 50mg am and 50mg pm.
Will draw blood one week after starting, 12h after last dose to measure trough levels.
Never been that excited to try something out.

 

[BBC3]

Oh my mistake. Been years since I've seen it.

Varies between LISS and HIIT depending on how sore I feel that particular day/week. LISS is 30-40 min and I usually rotate every 6 or 7 minutes between machines at the gym (rower, fan bike, run up the stairs and around the indoor track). I'm too ADHD to sit on one machine for 40 minutes. HIIT sessions are usually 10-15 minutes and usually involves a fan bike or sled depending on how much I wanna make myself suffer that day lol.

I had a dexa scan about a 9 months ago and it came back at 10.6% but I don't think that's accurate. I just don't feel like I'm that lean. My Monday "self check-in" pic attached if it helps (Sorry for my dog in the background. She was needier than usual that day lol) 385 bench and 565 back squat.

Currently, 4 days rotating upper/lower and 1 beach day because well you know. On my U/L days I'll do 5-6 sets of the compound movement of choice that day (bench, squat, DL, ohp), another 4-5 sets of an accessory compound movement I feel would be beneficial (pin presses, zercher squats, RDLs, etc) and then finish with an accessory circuit of exercises that further work the area for the day (GHR for example) and some daily assistance work (pullaparts for instance). Beach day is several cirucuits of arm work and side/ rear laterals. Almost always follow this up with one of the HIIT workouts since I have plenty left in the tank compared to the other 4 days.

Maintenance-ish calories with 250g protein and fluctuating carbs and fats right now. I know, I know. I can definitely do better here.

Both. I have my semi-annuals done at my doc's request and review, and I get a 3rd and 4th done on my own with more details than my insurance covers.

Definitely a former fat boy (fat kid and teen). Not shredded by any means but I'm pretty damn confident I'm under 18%.

Genetics and family history are all over the place. Mom's side had several instances of diabetes. Dad's side has multiple instances of cancer. Both had instances of heart disease. Never had diagnosed thyroid problems but both I and my sister have been on thyroid replacement meds for nearly a decade. Different endo's diagnosed us both at nearly the same time. Both of us have goiters (just enlarged glands). Blood work looks good there but my bout with COVID did screw with the blood values pretty significantly for several months.

The 3-4iu is not my normal use. It was something I decided to increase for 5 months, but my normal use is 2iu before bed.

Sorry for getting off on the wrong foot. I do appreciate you taking the time to post.

No issues on the "right foot thing" - I like to help and just get a bit dramatic all in fun.

On yer pic.. YOU ARE LEAN AS SHIT. And while sporting some muscle at the same time. I mean you are in the top 0.25% of the population in terms of fitness at ANY age... You got decent gunz to go with and ABs that go all the way down. If you got glutes and quadz too / Throw in some extra-dense skeletal and then there ya go. I'd estimate your estrogen is about where it should be for that physique. Cautiously yea I would guess 12-14%. Which is real low.

But its all about metabolism isnt it. You clearly eat right. I stand by my position that you need a couple of beers a day, and maybe toss down a TacoBell Cruchwrap Supreme a couple times a week.

E and fat metabolism is a funny thing. They really dont know how it all plays out. How long aromatized E's last in the system,, Whether or not they build up in blood circulation and hog SHBG etc,, Whether or not STORING fat or METABOLIZING fat generates more E activity,, And my personal suspicion is that when you do a good job of holding "metabolic status-quo"/ meaning store fat at the same rate you burn it what that means exactly in terms of the E manifest... Point is actual metabolization of hormones at the local cell remains at mystery to "science... etc..

The one thing that is certain is that once you establish a "metabolic profile" within your physical parameters it is damn hard to change... I have just read back to the start of the thread to see what your actual complaints are other than contemplating the hormonal anomalies. So here goes.

SO I AM ASSUMING your inquiry is with regard to the gyno you experienced as everything else looks pretty good.. Estrogens will make any man's tittles burn and stang, but in my experience it is always the progesterone path, the prolactin ESPECIALLY from nandrolone that empowers the formation of the gyno. Just a surety almost it seems it generate "the dreaded BB" every time.. And many times high estrogen alone will simply give some nice sensitive tits perhaps even puffy - but with minimal long term hang time. It took a round a deca that birthed my BB behind my nip for sure..

I don't know if you were saying you ran Tren and Deca simultaneously. Kinda overlap/overkill if so based on my reads (not experience)... Personally I would like to add in some Deca to my high level TRT but it scares me to death now the long term mind breaker it brings... I'm still getting lost in it all and will ground myself back to Earth simply citing that YES if E is low it may cause Progesterone lines to act unusually.

To best qualify the question (as complaints) which I see.is you are...
(1) Complaining of low E related Joint pain, and
(2) Wanting to address this whole conundrum and mitigate a tad..

Thank you first for being a sport and giving me some feedback. I'm here to learn too. On the Joint pain related to low E - YES I can understand that one and yes the solution is to raise it. As far as what is going on as a whole I would next suggest you post a weeks worth of your diet and let us get a look and what you are eating. Earlier in the thread a made a joke about past "knee-knockers" complaining about being thin and having thin issues and everyone sitting round trying to help them all to find out they ate 2 salads a day and walked 20 miles a day. LOL. So the point was to try to find out what yer eating. Not to accuse. You got that tho.

Personally, I just think yer too fukkin Jakked.. You've got yer self in a real androgenic condition, and diet tweaking may be the best solution. I mean you could toss more T-Cyp on that thing you got goign there and wind up with your scalp on fire. L......O.......L.............. I'm just saying I dont think hormones are the quick fix.

All that mojo SuperStongerNeckcameljockey is preaching about oral DHEA and PREGNENOLONE is pointless, and the reason they are not controlled by dea is because it takes the liver about 3-7 days to get a lazer lock on them and obliterate them on first sight of swallow. Preg almost blasted immediately. You might get a good headache out of DHEA for 40hrs, and boost for another couple days, and then its rendered useless as well...

The pickle talking creams and gels and body locations. All been done and tried. Regardless of the studies that suggest that creams dermally applied actually make MORE androgens. However, the skin just stops picking them up properly in fairly short order, so its all mute there. they just dont wok. There is a reason no real TRT is done with topicals. I agree to some point in that IT SEEMS like creams directly applied to skin should make E's but I don't know. May have to do with all the cholesterol in the skin which is probably the reason they stop working. The cholesterol being a key player in the whole hormone metabolism in terms of dermal hormone absorption efficacy.

I would caution to look up the definition the the regular and sensitive E2 testing parameters with Labcorp and Quest. It does seem like my past investigation into the matter yielded the sensitive E2 testing in men is not recommended. I could have that wrong but...

Also be aware that I read recently that the trens and decas (Nor 19's I think) will whack-out an estrogen test result. Don't know how true that is or how long it is an actor if true. I do know that both of those roids will remain detectable and therefore active on the body for up to a year.

HCG is documented to have a nice estrogenic effect should you want to consider looking into doing one of those 250iu EOD dosing protocols. I'm personally scared of the long term effects from that there's an age old argument as to whether Leydig desensitization does occur from that stuff. I fear it may.

Again, Yer pretty lean and I am guessing there is some real muscle neural axon activity going on with you too and you been doing this for more than a week. One slab of muscle on one guy can vary greatly to the next...

The thyroid tweaking undoubted is a big player I suspect. Don't know it you are talking the old Armour, or straight up medical T3 (is my guess), So you got a jakked up metabolism. Thats pretty progressive address of goiter. My wife my need to address her enlarged thryroid. I suspect her adderall use as exacerbated the issue over time. But you are really stoking the fire with that stuff. Was you TSH really ever high?? Cause its not going to leave much behind when all that burning is done at the cell if increased thyroid supply locally. And the lower component (so your low E2 will suffer first) - of course...

Sorry I cant help more and without seeing your diet I would only speculate you need to eat more fat, or lower the thyroid dosage. Thanx for dail'n in with me on this one... I may have some GH questions for you one day as being mid life I realize there is no way I am not going to test this water to drop some body fat.

I'm rusty as shit but I think you get what my points are and that I'm trying to help... I get it if I was as fit as you I would sure as shit not want my wrist tarpleus-larpleluss pinging my brain when trying to bench or work some guns... LOL...

Correct me anywhere a made large error please.

 

[TheGreasyPickle]

To my great amazement PPL has some stock in Europe now so my test base should be here next week.
Will take 50mg am and 50mg pm.
Will draw blood one week after starting, 12h after last dose to measure trough levels.
Never been that excited to try something out.

Hello brother. Did you ever try this?

 

[Deleted member 59947]

Title is not a typo lol. I've been getting incredibly low estradiol results on bloodwork for almost two years now and it shows no signs of improving. I never use AI's. Last time I used an AI was probaly 3 years ago and it was 12.5mg of aromasin twice/wk for 2 weeks. Nothing since. My cruise dose (which I'm currently on) is 200mg of test enanthate, which is kind of high I realize. My latest round of bloodwork put me at
1484 ng/dl total test
407 pg/ml free test
6 pg/ml of estradiol (ultrasensitive LC/MS test)

I realize everyone's level of estradiol is going to be slightly different but this seems at an unhealthy level. It affects my joints to a degree (knees usually ache way more than they should), HDL is still ok at 41 but I've had it as high at 66 in the past while on cruise. My IGF is 75 after using 3-4iu HGH/day for 5 months. So something is amiss.

Any suggestions on normalizing it or things to investigate as to why it's so low? Some others have suggested just using more test but I would think there has to be a realistic limit as to what should be used on a cruise.

On a weird side note, I'm apparently super sensitive to prolactin/progesterone as I started to develop a bit of gyno behind my left nipple while using tren and deca earlier this year. I tested estrogen a week later and it was 14 pg/ml. So, pretty damn sure that was prolactin related.

Have you tried transdermal DHEA ?

How does it make you feel ?

 

[cmK9s33]

Have you tried transdermal DHEA ?

How does it make you feel ?

I have not tried any transdermals.

I used DHEA tablets but to no avail. I thought it was helping but bloodwork showed to difference in estradiol. So placebo effect there.

 

[Deleted member 59947]

I have not tried any transdermals.

I used DHEA tablets but to no avail. I thought it was helping but bloodwork showed to difference in estradiol. So placebo effect there.

Blood work means nothing when it comes to DHEA, its conversion to androgens and estrogens happens in tissues.

Trust how you feel.