Bulk aftermath - complete failure!

[stormface]

BTW if you show up to your good coach with this sob story you will know they are good when they refund your money and say no thanks.

 

[RzSco]

Diet tracking for last 10 days eating "intuitively" to some degree. The most unhealthy thing I eat is probably cheese. I'm not into sweets, fast food, deep fried stuff, etc. These calories come from chicken, eggs, vegetables, beef, pasta, rice, bread, cheese, milk, etc etc. Weight is maintaining at 82kg.

Mean averages:
Total calories 2740
Fat 38% of calories
Carbs 34% of calories
Protein 28% of calories

Standard deviations:
9% on all the macros
580 on the total calories

So based on this:

1. I need to reduce fat and increase carbs to compensate, for sure. No question here. Protein averaging at 192 grams, which is fine for my weight of 180 lbs.

2. Macros are spread randomly through the day, usually in three meals plus snacks; how much am I leaving on the table by not controlling this more strictly and timing my meals around macros and carb GI's?

3. Although the averages are fairly good, day-to-day deviation is high but random. Again, how much am I leaving on the table by not being more consistent every day?

 

[eery]

Diet tracking for last 10 days eating "intuitively" to some degree. The most unhealthy thing I eat is probably cheese. I'm not into sweets, fast food, deep fried stuff, etc. These calories come from chicken, eggs, vegetables, beef, pasta, rice, bread, cheese, milk, etc etc. Weight is maintaining at 82kg.

Mean averages:
Total calories 2740
Fat 38% of calories
Carbs 34% of calories
Protein 28% of calories

Standard deviations:
9% on all the macros
580 on the total calories

So based on this:

1. I need to reduce fat and increase carbs to compensate, for sure. No question here. Protein averaging at 192 grams, which is fine for my weight of 180 lbs.

2. Macros are spread randomly through the day, usually in three meals plus snacks; how much am I leaving on the table by not controlling this more strictly and timing my meals around macros and carb GI's?

3. Although the averages are fairly good, day-to-day deviation is high but random. Again, how much am I leaving on the table by not being more consistent every day?

What about actual food choices and amounts and # of meals?

fat sounds high. Calories sound very low. protein could alway be higher.

eat meals, not snacks. GI isnt very relevant unless you are eaating it in isolation, which you are not in a meal.

 

[Habib]

My 2nd cycle, 500 test + 250 deca, I blew up, went from 220 to 250 lbs at 6'6. Massive strength gains. Was benching 335 for 10 reps with ease.

Moved to a TRT dose after 3 months and lost everything very quickly. Ended up right where I started.

My theory is you actually don't build much muscle at all on roids. It's all mostly water. That you need to blast for years or at least most of the year to be able to keep any muscle at a TRT dose, and even then, it still eventually goes away. On top of that, most pros are assumed to "cruise" at 500mg test for a few months, then go back to blasting.

You shouldn't be losing anything really on a TRT dose assuming it's 150-200mg of test. You should be able to maintain a dam good physique

 

[RzSco]

Here is an example from my tracking. I don't eat breakfast, it makes me feel sick.

Lunch: Tuna Salad
112g tuna
100g couscous (dry weight)
15g light mayo
80g onion
150g tomatoes
100g cucumber

Afternoon snack: sardines 100g milk 300ml

Dinner: Pasta
100g ham slices
100g whole wheat pasta (dry weight)
250g tomato sauce
240g beans

Late snack: 60g whey and 500ml milk (should have had this earlier, I know)

2540 calories, 24% fat 44% carb 32% protein
203 grams of protein. Calories were a bit low but I just need to eat an extra 250 tomorrow to make up for it.

I don't eat the same thing every day but hopefully this gives enough of an insight into my food choices and meal timing for you guys?

When I bulked it was the same basic diet but I added a couple liters skim milk to the snacks because it has carbs and protein but no fat so it seemed to make sense as a way to add another 1000 calories.

 

[stormface]

What are your SBD numbers?

 

[crtx]

sorry bud.
your training is fucked can't even lift your own body weight on bench. Why the are you on the juice? You dont have the fundamentals down and blame your genes?

All i'm seeing is lack of training, scared to see a bit of fluff not holding your new body weight post bulk and running over to a cut ASAP to loose your scale weight.

everyone wants to be big no one wants to eat all go smash the juice first....

Least your honest in posting good luck!

 

[RzSco]

sorry bud.
your training is fucked can't even lift your own body weight on bench. Why the are you on the juice? You dont have the fundamentals down and blame your genes?

True, I should have been able to lift my own body weight on bench years ago just following 5x5 routines but that wasn't how it went for me.

The only times I've ever made anything resembling solid gains are:

1. My noob gains, 15kg bench to 50kg 5RM, doing 5x5s. After that I just repeatedly deloaded at the same weight.

2. My first cycle gains (600 test), 50kg to 70kg 5RM, doing 5x5 on pretty much maintenance calories. Again, ended up repeatedly deloading at the same weight.

3. The cutting cycle last spring (300 test 400 tren) I put on a small amount of lean mass in a deficit doing various bodyweight exercises (gyms closed due to covid) from 5x12 to 5x30 reps. Hitting every muscle three times a week.

I tried doing the dogcrapp style training during my bulk but with no positive result.

I think based on recent experience I need to go with high volume moderate intensity work to make progress. Probably in a re-comp or very tiny surplus.

 

[BCBuilder]

True, I should have been able to lift my own body weight on bench years ago just following 5x5 routines but that wasn't how it went for me.

The only times I've ever made anything resembling solid gains are:

1. My noob gains, 15kg bench to 50kg 5RM, doing 5x5s. After that I just repeatedly deloaded at the same weight.

2. My first cycle gains (600 test), 50kg to 70kg 5RM, doing 5x5 on pretty much maintenance calories. Again, ended up repeatedly deloading at the same weight.

3. The cutting cycle last spring (300 test 400 tren) I put on a small amount of lean mass in a deficit doing various bodyweight exercises (gyms closed due to covid) from 5x12 to 5x30 reps. Hitting every muscle three times a week.

I tried doing the dogcrapp style training during my bulk but with no positive result.

I think based on recent experience I need to go with high volume moderate intensity work to make progress. Probably in a re-comp or very tiny surplus.

Sounds like you aren't eating as much as you think you are, and you aren't lifting with the intensity you should be, because that is below natty levels of progression in that time frame. I have been on for 2 months first cycle and my bench went from 225x 3 to 225 X 10 and I hit 315 for the first time the other day. My prior 1rm was like 255. Time to hit the drawing board on your diet and training.

 

[bigtdawgwassupbro]

lol dude its simple just do back biceps one day chest triceps another legs another and shoulders with one of those , take ur fucking shots, sleep well, and eat at least .8g protein per lb of bw..not that god damn hard

 

[BCBuilder]

Get a scale, write out your macros of protein carbs and fat, ex I'm eating 300g white rice and 300g chicken every meal 3x a day landing me right around 300 net carbs and 300 net g of protein. I add 50g of spinach for digestion, and barbecue sauce for taste, but I weight every single meal and I sit my ass down until it's all gone, or I lower my macros slightly if I physically cannot finish the food. No shakes, no shortcuts, just a lot of cooking and a lot of eating the difference will blow your mind

Edit; not including breakfast but with breakfast I clear 300g carbs and protein by an average of about 20 net carbs and protein

 

[malfeasance]

Here is an example from my tracking. I don't eat breakfast, it makes me feel sick.

Lunch: Tuna Salad
112g tuna
100g couscous (dry weight)
15g light mayo
80g onion
150g tomatoes
100g cucumber

Afternoon snack: sardines 100g milk 300ml

Dinner: Pasta
100g ham slices
100g whole wheat pasta (dry weight)
250g tomato sauce
240g beans

Late snack: 60g whey and 500ml milk (should have had this earlier, I know)

2540 calories, 24% fat 44% carb 32% protein
203 grams of protein. Calories were a bit low but I just need to eat an extra 250 tomorrow to make up for it.

I don't eat the same thing every day but hopefully this gives enough of an insight into my food choices and meal timing for you guys?

When I bulked it was the same basic diet but I added a couple liters skim milk to the snacks because it has carbs and protein but no fat so it seemed to make sense as a way to add another 1000 calories.

Ok, one more time, let's try this again.

So you ought to be able to lean up around or just under 2800.

But it should not be coffee, milk, and whey for the day.

Get up, eat 5 eggs and a cup of oats.

Later in the morning 6-8 ounces of meat and rice or potatoes.

Repeat later in the day three or four more times, adding os subtracting some carbs as needed.

Veggies with several of the meals.

All prepared at home.

Questions?

Point out the pasta, mayo, ham slices, and blah, blah, blah . . .

Wake up in the morning and eat 5 eggs and a cup of oats. This is not difficult.

 

[BCBuilder]

Ok, one more time, let's try this again.



Point out the pasta, mayo, ham slices, and blah, blah, blah . . .

Wake up in the morning and eat 5 eggs and a cup of oats. This is not difficult.

I haven't spoken to you directly but reading a lot of your diet advice is why I'm eating like this now, so thanks for your contributions brother. A couple days in and my pumps and recovery speaks for itself.

Side note, eating more purely from clean carbs has fixed my sleep issues too, after my third meal of 300g rice 300g chicken, I can't keep my eyes open. Makes me slightly worry about my insulin response though. Idk how normal that is when pushing calories

 

[RzSco]

Apparently it's still too soon after having covid to work out. Tried to do one set of everything and ended up with my head spinning afterwards. Hopefully I'll get back to where I was quickly.

I'm weighing and macro-counting everything I eat and I don't plan on stopping, ever. I'll find my TDEE post-covid then I'll add 200 calories, or whatever it takes, to very slowly increase my weight without fat gain.

I can't get rid of pasta and bread as Carb sources, it's already hard enough getting my girlfriend to accept this diet (lunch and dinner are common meals) and if she dumps me I'm homeless so gotta keep this in mind and keep the meals vaguely palatable.

Is there a reason for 5 eggs for breakfast rather than just having a couple with each meal?

 

[crtx]

True, I should have been able to lift my own body weight on bench years ago just following 5x5 routines but that wasn't how it went for me.

The only times I've ever made anything resembling solid gains are:

1. My noob gains, 15kg bench to 50kg 5RM, doing 5x5s. After that I just repeatedly deloaded at the same weight.

2. My first cycle gains (600 test), 50kg to 70kg 5RM, doing 5x5 on pretty much maintenance calories. Again, ended up repeatedly deloading at the same weight.

3. The cutting cycle last spring (300 test 400 tren) I put on a small amount of lean mass in a deficit doing various bodyweight exercises (gyms closed due to covid) from 5x12 to 5x30 reps. Hitting every muscle three times a week.

I tried doing the dogcrapp style training during my bulk but with no positive result.

I think based on recent experience I need to go with high volume moderate intensity work to make progress. Probably in a re-comp or very tiny surplus.

all good mate at least you can outline your issues and make a change going forward.

 

[Rido]

Apparently it's still too soon after having covid to work out. Tried to do one set of everything and ended up with my head spinning afterwards. Hopefully I'll get back to where I was quickly.

I'm weighing and macro-counting everything I eat and I don't plan on stopping, ever. I'll find my TDEE post-covid then I'll add 200 calories, or whatever it takes, to very slowly increase my weight without fat gain.

I can't get rid of pasta and bread as Carb sources, it's already hard enough getting my girlfriend to accept this diet (lunch and dinner are common meals) and if she dumps me I'm homeless so gotta keep this in mind and keep the meals vaguely palatable.

Is there a reason for 5 eggs for breakfast rather than just having a couple with each meal?

I'm not a fan of structure like this that can be detrimental to a relationship. However idk what is your limited gains. I'm sorry OP. I wish things were better for you.

Doing this stuff is easy if you are single.

Even people who eat "dirty" can have great gains. Lately I have been having some nature's grain cereal with chia seeds just for breakfast with a protein shake to grab those omega 3s/fiber

I think you just need to learn how to lift properly...

 

[RzSco]

So I'm now eating at maintenance so I can't blame a calorie deficit for this.

I'm still really struggling with work capacity, losing 2-3 reps on each successive set even with long rests of 3-5 minutes. All to failure.

In the past I'd normally only lose one rep per set, also to failure. But that was on tren, not just 700ng/DL TRT as I am now.

I feel like I'm possibly pushing the intensity too high at the expense of volume. Should I keep doing what I'm doing and hope for adaptation or try and do straight sets (with failure only on the last one) for higher overall volume?

 

[jJjburton]

So I'm now eating at maintenance so I can't blame a calorie deficit for this.

I'm still really struggling with work capacity, losing 2-3 reps on each successive set even with long rests of 3-5 minutes. All to failure.

In the past I'd normally only lose one rep per set, also to failure. But that was on tren, not just 700ng/DL TRT as I am now.

I feel like I'm possibly pushing the intensity too high at the expense of volume. Should I keep doing what I'm doing and hope for adaptation or try and do straight sets (with failure only on the last one) for higher overall volume?

For hypertrophy you only want 90 second rest periods at most.

 

[RzSco]

90 second rests and it's gonna be over by the third set unless I do sub-maximal work. Is that what you recommend?

 

[Ironman 580]

If u rest for 94 seconds u can do it