MESO-Rx Exclusive Cardarine (GW501516)

[MESO-Rx Administrator]

MESO-Rx has a new original article on Cardarine (GW501516) written by @PeterBond :

"To date, however, there’s not a single approved drug that selectively acts on PPARδ. That’s not to say that the pharmaceutical industry hasn’t been interested in this receptor subtype: a tremendous amount of research has been done in this area. In this article I will focus on a candidate drug that acts on this receptor and made it into clinical trials: cardarine (GW501516). While the clinical trials showed promising results, two rodent studies that screened for carcinogenicity of the compound casted a dark shadow on it."

The Rise and Fall of Cardarine (GW501516)

Estimated reading time: 12 minutes Table of contentsIntroductionCardarine (GW501516) is a PPARδ agonist developed by GlaxoSmithKline (GSK)Cardarine

thinksteroids.com

 

[Regular Joe]

The placebo group saw a 36 increase and 2.5mg group saw a 15 decrease and it's not significant?

 

[PeterBond]

The placebo group saw a 36 increase and 2.5mg group saw a 15 decrease and it's not significant?

Correct:

 

[Type-IIx]

Excellent article, I have been looking forward to a demystifying of cardarine. It just seems like guys have been putting a very carcinogenic compound in their bodies that merely counteracts the decreased HDL from switching to a sedentary lifestyle and likely improves insulin sensitivity (at least in dyslipidemia or abdominal obesity) via improved skeletal muscle fatty acid oxidation. This is a shockingly useless compound to risk a painful death IMO. As if guys understand "cholesterol efflux," which would have been the sole unique attribute of this versus any approved and commonplace thiazolidinedione (sp?) for improved insulin sensitivity. It's been given a mystical allure by its grey market status or something. Not worth it!!!

 

[Regular Joe]

Correct:
View attachment 153820

I'm guessing I'm a moron but how is a %36 increase and a %15 decrease not statistically significant?

 

[PeterBond]

I'm guessing I'm a moron but how is a %36 increase and a %15 decrease not statistically significant?

Lack of statistical power. Combination of a relatively large standard error of the difference and small sample size.

 

[grey]

Nice backgrounder sir... much appreciated!

 

[Bumpygooch]

Excellent article, I have been looking forward to a demystifying of cardarine. It just seems like guys have been putting a very carcinogenic compound in their bodies that merely counteracts the decreased HDL from switching to a sedentary lifestyle and likely improves insulin sensitivity (at least in dyslipidemia or abdominal obesity) via improved skeletal muscle fatty acid oxidation. This is a shockingly useless compound to risk a painful death IMO. As if guys understand "cholesterol efflux," which would have been the sole unique attribute of this versus any approved and commonplace thiazolidinedione (sp?) for improved insulin sensitivity. It's been given a mystical allure by its grey market status or something. Not worth it!!!

Agreed. I’ve shared this personal anecdote in every cardarine thread I’ve come across here. Took 25mg/day for about a month. LDL increased dramatically and liver enzymes were elevated, so, 2 reasons I took it were to decrease both those numbers. This was science.bio. Again, just a personal anecdote, but, that result in and of itself should be alarming. @Demondosage loves the stuff. Like to get his reaction.

 

[Regular Joe]

Lack of statistical power. Combination of a relatively large standard error of the difference and small sample size.

The size is the same between the 2.5mg and the 10mg group but it was considered statistically significant so the size shouldn't be the reason to disqualify one result over the other. Is it saying that the results were so good something must be wrong?

 

[PeterBond]

The size is the same between the 2.5mg and the 10mg group but it was considered statistically significant so the size shouldn't be the reason to disqualify one result over the other. Is it saying that the results were so good something must be wrong?

The effect size was larger in the 10 mg group, hence it did reach statistical significance with an unpaired t test.

 

[juicebro]

Agreed. I’ve shared this personal anecdote in every cardarine thread I’ve come across here. Took 25mg/day for about a month. LDL increased dramatically and liver enzymes were elevated, so, 2 reasons I took it were to decrease both those numbers. This was science.bio. Again, just a personal anecdote, but, that result in and of itself should be alarming. @Demondosage loves the stuff. Like to get his reaction.

It was not cardarine then. When I start 20mg cardarine it halves my ldl and triglycerides within a week. I've been using it almost consistently for the last 2 years. I must have done bloodwork more than 15 times during that time.

I have also tried rosuvastatin, ezetimibe, 3g niacin etc and nothing has had that kind of effect on my lipids.

 

[Bumpygooch]

It was not cardarine then. When I start 20mg cardarine it halves my ldl and triglycerides within a week. I've been using it almost consistently for the last 2 years. I must have done bloodwork more than 15 times during that time.

I have also tried rosuvastatin, ezetimibe, 3g niacin etc and nothing has had that kind of effect on my lipids.

And that’s YOUR anecdote. If what I used wasn’t cardarine, then science.bio is a shit source. My LDL shot up to 275, 20mg/day rosuvastatin brought it down to 75, so, that’s MY anecdote about statins.

 

[MFAAS]

It was not cardarine then. When I start 20mg cardarine it halves my ldl and triglycerides within a week. I've been using it almost consistently for the last 2 years. I must have done bloodwork more than 15 times during that time.

I have also tried rosuvastatin, ezetimibe, 3g niacin etc and nothing has had that kind of effect on my lipids.

If you care to share your blood test results before and after cardarine, that would be HUGELY appreciated. Obviously redact and personal info. It would be really nice to see some of the results of the cardarine though

 

[juicebro]

If you care to share your blood test results before and after cardarine, that would be HUGELY appreciated. Obviously redact and personal info. It would be really nice to see some of the results of the cardarine though

All of my blood tests were on cycle. At least 350-500mg tren ace + up to a gram of masteron and some test. I mostly did not bother testing HDL since it was chronically low and absolutely nothing brought it up on gear.

06/03/19 - the highest LDL I've had. I was taking nothing for lipid support
LDL 4,3 mmol/l
Triglycerides 1.07 mmol/l (< 1.7 mmol/l)


24/04/19 - I believe I was on 3g niacin only here
LDL 3.7 mmol/l (< 3 mmol/l)


18.06.2020 25mg cardarine + 3g niacin
LDL 1.9 mmol/l
Triglycerides 0.89 mmol/l < 1.7 mmol/l


08.02.2021 - 20mg cardarine and 3g niacin only + a lot of gear....
HDL - 0.2 mmol/l
LDL - 1.6 mmol/l
Triglycerides - 1.05 mmol/l


24.05.2021 - lowest LDL ever. 20mg cardarine, 2.5mg rosuvastatin EOD, 3g niacin, citrus bergamon, 12 caps of fish oil, 10mg ezetimibe

HDL 0.50 mmol/l
LDL 1.4 mmol/l
Triglycerides 0.83 mmol/l
Lipoprotein a 56.90 nmol/ (< 75 nmol/l)
CRP 0.15 mg/l (10 mg/l)

03.08.2021 - no cardarine, no niacin, 2.5mg rosuvastatin EOD, 10mg ezetimibe
LDL 3.6 mmol/l
Triglycerides 1.07 mmol/l

That was 3rd August. I went back on cardarine and dropped rosuvastatin after that.

Cardarine and niacin seem to lower LDL dramatically. Fish oil seems to have the biggest effect on triglycerides. Rosuvastatin was great at keeping CRP very low and lowered LDL even further but I experienced muscle pain and had to come off. Even now I have not gained my full strength back after stopping it. Ezetimibe seems almost useless but im still taking it since it has no side effects. I stopped niacin because my liver enzymes were constantly over 100 and it seemed to lighten my skin.

Edit. removed the screenshots because they're not in English and I don't wanna get doxxed.

 

[MFAAS]

All of my blood tests were on cycle. At least 350-500mg tren ace + up to a gram of masteron and some test. I mostly did not bother testing HDL since it was chronically low and absolutely nothing brought it up on gear.

06/03/19 - the highest LDL I've had. I was taking nothing for lipid support
LDL 4,3 mmol/l
Triglycerides 1.07 mmol/l (< 1.7 mmol/l)


24/04/19 - I believe I was on 3g niacin only here
LDL 3.7 mmol/l (< 3 mmol/l)


18.06.2020 25mg cardarine + 3g niacin
LDL 1.9 mmol/l
Triglycerides 0.89 mmol/l < 1.7 mmol/l


08.02.2021 - 20mg cardarine and 3g niacin only + a lot of gear....
HDL - 0.2 mmol/l
LDL - 1.6 mmol/l
Triglycerides - 1.05 mmol/l


24.05.2021 - lowest LDL ever. 20mg cardarine, 2.5mg rosuvastatin EOD, 3g niacin, citrus bergamon, 12 caps of fish oil, 10mg ezetimibe

HDL 0.50 mmol/l
LDL 1.4 mmol/l
Triglycerides 0.83 mmol/l
Lipoprotein a 56.90 nmol/ (< 75 nmol/l)
CRP 0.15 mg/l (10 mg/l)

03.08.2021 - no cardarine, no niacin, 2.5mg rosuvastatin EOD, 10mg ezetimibe
LDL 3.6 mmol/l
Triglycerides 1.07 mmol/l

That was 3rd August. I went back on cardarine and dropped rosuvastatin after that.

Cardarine and niacin seem to lower LDL dramatically. Fish oil seems to have the biggest effect on triglycerides. Rosuvastatin was great at keeping CRP very low and lowered LDL even further but I experienced muscle pain and had to come off. Even now I have not gained my full strength back after stopping it. Ezetimibe seems almost useless but im still taking it since it has no side effects. I stopped niacin because my liver enzymes were constantly over 100 and it seemed to lighten my skin.

Edit. removed the screenshots because they're not in English and I don't wanna get doxxed.

Thanks for sharing! Those are some seriously impressive results

I waa taking Red Yeast Rice extract which basically levostatin and that was extremely effective. Too much so actually, I crashed my cholesterol overall while on a 500 mg test 350 NPP 350 anavar cycle. Never had any muscle pain at al but I know some people get it bad :/

 

[MFAAS]

@PeterBond The last line of the article says it would be unwise to use chronically. I realize you are not in the business of giving medical advice here, but do you think there is ANY level of cardarine use that is safe?

For example, 8 week cycles of 10 mg or even 5mg taken alongside certain AAS to counteract some of the negative effects on lipids?

Is there any merit to the claim that Cardarine can benefit the heart and reduce left ventricle hypertrophy??

 

[grey]

For example, 8 week cycles of 10 mg or even 5mg taken alongside certain AAS to counteract some of the negative effects on lipids?

Since the studies were regarding large and continuous use on the rats it is certainly possible that lower (read: SANE) dose levels in cycles are quite unlikely to have anything like the effect they hat on the rats.

Can't say for sure though since they stopped studying it.

In the end the risk level is somewhat comparable to Tren in my mind as both simply don't have a ton of human studies or ongoing research to show either safety or actual risk for humans.

 

[PeterBond]

@PeterBond The last line of the article says it would be unwise to use chronically. I realize you are not in the business of giving medical advice here, but do you think there is ANY level of cardarine use that is safe?

For example, 8 week cycles of 10 mg or even 5mg taken alongside certain AAS to counteract some of the negative effects on lipids?

Is there any merit to the claim that Cardarine can benefit the heart and reduce left ventricle hypertrophy??

If you want it to negate negative effects on lipids to such an extent that it matters in terms of cardiovascular disease risk, you'd need to take it chronically (albeit over multiple cycles), so no. You're better off taking drugs which have proven efficacy on clinical endpoints (e.g. statins or PCSK9 inhibitors) and safety.

 

[Regular Joe]

Do you know what the equivalent rat dose would be in humans? I've seen people say numbers from low 40s mg to over 100mg. Also do you know if the rats are put on the drugs at birth or do they wait till they're considered mature? Lastly MPMD said(I haven't looked it up so he could be wrong) that the normal life expectancy of the rats is only 3 years and that cancer is the reason they usually die even in control groups. While going from 3 years to 2 years to die from cancer is concerning, if the rats normally die from cancer they seem like a poor choice to determine how carcinogenic a drug is

 

[grey]

Do you know what the equivalent rat dose would be in humans? I've seen people say numbers from low 40s mg to over 100mg. Also do you know if the rats are put on the drugs at birth or do they wait till they're considered mature? Lastly MPMD said(I haven't looked it up so he could be wrong) that the normal life expectancy of the rats is only 3 years and that cancer is the reason they usually die even in control groups. While going from 3 years to 2 years to die from cancer is concerning, if the rats normally die from cancer they seem like a poor choice to determine how carcinogenic a drug is

Whoever quoted you those numbers was either giving you the per kg number or was innumerate.


Doses are in TFA:

"male rats were given 0, 5, 20, or 40 mg/kg/day, whereas female rats were given 0, 3, 10 or 20 mg/kg/day."


So to match the third rat group's dose by bodyweight a 200 lb (90kg) human would be taking:
20 mg * 90 or 1.8 GRAMS of Cardarine a day for 2 years.

Even the "low" dose group was taking the BW equivalent of more than 400mg a day for 2 years. The high dose group was getting the BW equiv of 3.6 fucking GRAMS of GW1516 a day for 2 days.

For comparison the injectable Cardarine I was using in 3 week cycles was dose at 50mg per ml with a single recommended daily dose averaging 25mg a day or 1/20th the dose of the LOWEST rat dosing in the study.

The rats were receiving ULTRAMEGA overdose loads for incredible durations.


Companies have to do this for liability reasons due to tort law insanity, not sane world risk assessment reasons.