CARPAL TUNNEL-TRIGGER FINGER-PAIN & SWELLING

[mcs1959]

For those with experience with GH, GH secretagogue peptides, IGF-1...

Some quick background:

• First signs of trigger finger, carpal/cubital tunnel (numbness) started in early 2019.
• Had TF surgery (percutaneous release) in June, 2020 - successful outcome.
• Slow progression in a few other digits since, but no pain
• Started GH-promoting peptides (CJC-1295/ipamorelin 200mcg/200mcg; tesamorelin 1-2mg) in July, 2022
• IGF-1 went from a baseline of 250 to over 500 within weeks (see labs below).
• Joint pain, muscle aches, pitting edema in ankles started around March, 2023.
• Edema dissipated, but CTS/TF worsened.
• Spread to my other digits and even thumbs which I never had a problem with before.
• Stiffness and now pain has spread to all fingers except for the finger that was previously released from surgery.
• Discontinued all GH-promoting peptides 4 days ago.

So the CTS/TF issues were there before starting the peptides, but the peptides seems to have made them worse. This is where I'm frustrated because these peptides are supposed to be for healing, NOT to make the joint issues worse!

I like the recomp effects thus far and want to keep using these peptides but am concerned with the carpal tunnel + joint pain/trigger finger worsening. and am worried about the increased IGF-1 and cancer risk. Diet and training is on point not much more I can do in those department. Appetite is strong. Tesamorelin, in particular, is the strongest and quickest in terms of seeing visible results. But it also has the most pronounced side effects.
Latest labs showed a significant elevation in IGF-1 and Z score but not GH or GRH since starting the peptides. You can see in my previous post.

I like the recomp effects thus far and want to keep using these peptides but am concerned if the carpal tunnel + joint pain/trigger finger don't taper off + am worried about chronically-increased IGF-1 and cancer risk. Diet and training are on point, not much more I can do in that department. Appetite is strong. Tesamorelin in particular is the strongest and quickest in terms of seeing visible results. But it also spikes IGF-1 big time.

Questions/concerns:

1. Is elevated IGF-1 to blame for the pain, swelling, edema - or GH (though my GH is not elevated?
2. Does anyone know if the carpal tunnel and joint stiffness dissipates over time (the edema around my ankles seems to have subsided even before stopping)?
3. Is IGF-1 is the main marker that is responsible for lipolysis and muscle hyperplasia from increasing GH?
4. The CT numbness is most prevalent when on the elliptical machine after about 15 minutes. I have to rest my hands for about 30 secs to alleviate the numbness. I had that slightly before taking the peptides, but now it's much worse.
5. Even with gloves and doing lifts that don't require a strong grip (like pushing on a bar), Imy fingers get completely inflamed, stiff, and cannot move them within hours post workout. I can also feel it in my shoulders.
6. My surgeon said bilateral TF is not common which is concerning. He suggested to have a nerve conduction test to see the extent of the CTS. As to the TF, I am scheduled for release surgery at the of the month. I hope stopping the GH peptides for now will reverse the crippling effects of pain and swelling.

Latest labs:

 

[tuffie]

Very detailed post. A quick search of the keywords you posted shows a clear correlation between UGL GH, GH secretagogue peptides, IGF-1... and these side effects.

The difference is UGL v Pharmacy (quality/ingredients). Please anyone else enlighten more on this subject and remove bias because if any user has consumed/experimented with the 2 (ugl/pharmacy), 96.1% agree the side effects correlate with origin (UGL/Pharma) and dose. You could MAYBE get away with lower doses of UGL so side effects dont arise (as quickly). And also remove other inflammatory PEDS (Carrier oils ex: MCT).

If you do fall into that ~4% of users who experience sides with pharmacy grade peptides, use a different brand or just drop them. Otherwise the answer is UGL = edema/trigger finger/inflammation, etcetc.

Worse would be your knee joints getting pain. Thx for your post.

 

[mcs1959]

Very detailed post. A quick search of the keywords you posted shows a clear correlation between UGL GH, GH secretagogue peptides, IGF-1... and these side effects.

The difference is UGL v Pharmacy (quality/ingredients). Please anyone else enlighten more on this subject and remove bias because if any user has consumed/experimented with the 2 (ugl/pharmacy), 96.1% agree the side effects correlate with origin (UGL/Pharma) and dose. You could MAYBE get away with lower doses of UGL so side effects dont arise (as quickly). And also remove other inflammatory PEDS (Carrier oils ex: MCT).

If you do fall into that ~4% of users who experience sides with pharmacy grade peptides, use a different brand or just drop them. Otherwise the answer is UGL = edema/trigger finger/inflammation, etcetc.

Worse would be your knee joints getting pain. Thx for your post.

I have had the peptides tested for purity by an independent 3rd party lab and they are all minimum 99% pure so this is not the case.

 

[tuffie]

I have had the peptides tested for purity by an independent 3rd party lab and they are all minimum 99% pure so this is not the case.

Proof? Otherwise I can remove my bais perform further research on the case point questions you made above.

Because fact remains if you search just on this forum the keywords "edema" and "carpal tunnel" and "water retention" all points to UGL rHgh or MCT carrier oil

inb4 edited/censored 3rd party "testing"

You didn't state UGL or pharma, just some made up purity wtf ??

 

[mcs1959]

Proof? Otherwise I can remove my bais perform further research on the case point questions you made above.

Samples I sent in under my company. The peptide purveyor was Peptide Sciences. As far as I'm concerned, they have a solid reputation, but I needed to analyze them before injecting this stuff in my body.

 

[girthquake]

I ran to maybe topsat 3iu per day, and also experienced trigger thumb. It went away several months after stopping hgh

 

[mcs1959]

I ran to maybe topsat 3iu per day, and also experienced trigger thumb. It went away several months after stopping hgh

Wow. It took that long it to go away?

 

[potter1345]

I literally ran 2 iu for two weeks and my hands swelled up like balloons so I aborted mission. It's been over a month and it still hasn't gone away.

 

[mcs1959]

I literally ran 2 iu for two weeks and my hands swelled up like balloons so I aborted mission. It's been over a month and it still hasn't gone away.

2iu is not even a huge dose either. Any other symptoms (muscle pain, swelling around ankles, etc.)?

 

[potter1345]

2iu is not even a huge dose either. Any other symptoms (muscle pain, swelling around ankles, etc.)?

Nope just my hands and that's it. When I wake up in the morning they are super stiff almost hard to grip things. As the day goes on they seem to loosen up a bit.

 

[Squaresky2]

Unfortunately it can take months. Currently having CTs from HGH right now. I’m on week 6. Left hand continues to be numb throughout the day. Right somewhat better. Thinking of making the appt to see if I qualify for release surgery.

 

[mcs1959]

Does anyone know if PEG-MGF causes CTS since it's a derivative of GH?

 

[mcs1959]

Since GH/IGF-1 protects against nerve damage as in this study, then why wouldn't the CTS symptoms be cancelled out?

 

[clearheaded]

no offence but mz labs is not super accurate due to how they test the peptides and folks use them just so can get big #s IMO as offer cheaper test. often get 100% pure which of course is not likely regardless of source. but ya, next time use a lab that can test both purity AND dosage as they will offer a more accurate result. no hate on peptide sciences but IIRC they say they don't use fillers yet very obviously do. fillers in my opinion are fine as makes them more stable and likely more accurately dosed, but its when they lie about it its an issue. folks were brining it up somewhere else and could be shills but could tell by picks of ghk-cu it obv had filler by color and volume.

that being said at least MZ labs will confirm legit product even if off a few % purity...

 

[mcs1959]

no offence but mz labs is not super accurate due to how they test the peptides and folks use them just so can get big #s IMO as offer cheaper test. often get 100% pure which of course is not likely regardless of source. but ya, next time use a lab that can test both purity AND dosage as they will offer a more accurate result. no hate on peptide sciences but IIRC they say they don't use fillers yet very obviously do. fillers in my opinion are fine as makes them more stable and likely more accurately dosed, but its when they lie about it its an issue. folks were brining it up somewhere else and could be shills but could tell by picks of ghk-cu it obv had filler by color and volume.

that being said at least MZ labs will confirm legit product even if off a few % purity...

I searched far and wide, over 30 different labs and MZ was the only one that would analyze peptides. They can test for potency for an extra fee. If you know anyone else in the states that tests peptides, please advise.

 

[clearheaded]

can send to jano or real peptide places offer testing too although may need to open an account with them... there is another aswell but overseas. I mean its not worth testing again unless concerned about dosage. as likely won't be more than 5% difference, likely less.

 

[mcs1959]

can send to jano or real peptide places offer testing too although may need to open an account with them... there is another aswell but overseas. I mean its not worth testing again unless concerned about dosage. as likely won't be more than 5% difference, likely less.

I looked into Janoshik but was not comfortable with a non-US regulated analysis lab that has nothing more than an email for contact. And yes, potency was not as important as purity.
My focus needs to go back on the concerns in my original post.

 

[girthquake]

Wow. It took that long it to go away?

Yea, it sucked. I was considering seeing a hand specialist about it but it eventually went away. I was expecting it to go away after month 1 but it was closer to month 3

 

[serkan]

@mcs1959 I would also like to improve my health with these peptides. Some joint problems. Reading this makes me scared to be honest. Are these the side effects of the peptides?

 

[clearheaded]

yes GH based peptides will cause edema of joints.. a little "edema" can help depending on issue. I think GH secretagogues are really only ones that will heal per say.

BPC 157 IMO helps pain, however does not "heal" although can reduce pain which helps heal as less inflammation. BPC studies that show healing are modeled after studies that have already shown with antidepressants ie ulcer bone tendon healing have all been shown in antidepressants in rodents like BPC, but researches think the reason for bone healing and tendon healing is because of less stress on the animal and less movement.. not replicated in humans by the way as "fracture healing" from antidepressants is from the rodents moving less and under less stress so eat and drink etc. remember you can scare many rodents to death pretty easily. for example the lady was doing a survey of shrews and if did not do it quickly and easily they would just die just from the stress of handling them too long. point being no "healing" with BPC has been found in humans other than ulcers as we know stress is a major cause of ulcers

BPC acts as an antidepressant studies show this, aswell as anecdotes of "flat mood" stimulants loose effectiveness which are both side effects of antidepressants. ie when people say "I healed my 4 year injury in 1 week with BPC 157" one should think logically how its not possible, it is possible to reduce pain quickly though.

I think some injuries won't cause further damage from overuse, however its very possible to cause MORE damage even though it doesn't hurt at the time. really important folks know what is causing the pain and even talk to physical therapist about if "pushing through the pain" is an ok thing and won't cause more damage. ie not rip a torn tendon because bps made it not hurt. or if its just an inflammation that if just didn't hurt would not let u hurt yourself more, and less nerve signals less over reactive inflammatory response by the body... if that makes sense..

goes for thyma or TB like peptides aswell..sometimes u don't want your body to produce too much cytokines or antibodies as over stimulation can be a bad thing(like we see with covid the overstimulation of immune response/cytokins). autoimmune issues are already way to common so poking it more with those types of peptides has potential to lead to more autoimmune issues. although for some people with poor responses its very possibly a good thing..remember corticosteroids are used for covid and folks who are sick and have inflammation to reduce cytokines/histaimine/antibody responses, TB does the opposite of that so may not be wise to be taking it chronically or while have covid or recently recovered as theoretically will bolster the negative long term damaging antibodies and immune response that causes heart/stroke/clot/inflamation of gut/causing or worsening diabetes issues associated with covid...

long and short of it is MORE antibodies and MORE cytokins aren't always a good thing even though they are important to be healthy... and remember blogs from "health clinics" often draw conclusions that studies really didn't show and alot of IFs and potentially and never mention that too much immune response can be a bad thing aswell(re diabetes alopecia arthritis colitis). the worst is when naturopaths tell people the peptide(or whatever substance) is "detoxing" them, when in actual fact they are having allergic side effects that may or may not go away as build tolerance, 100% not detoxing.. if someone tells u that run far away unless can tell u specifically what toxins are leaving your body and measure them or point to some actual science that shows this...ie massages I think can help drain/move lymph, but Chiro just gives adrenaline/endorphin dump that can make u feel shitty afterword, but will say its toxins leaving your body even though there is 0 logic or science behind that..

lol im BACK with blocks of text!!!