Carrier oils, esters, and injection frequency

[AllGoodThings]

I've searched a bit and couldn't find this directly addressed, but apologies if it has been.

Starting at 13:36 in this video;




I know Vigorous Steve is not a realible source of accurate information, but I still want to try and understand why he's making this claim. He's saying that if you use MCT oil, you have to inject daily, regardless of the ester. His claim is that because the depot is so rapidly dispersed with MCT, it all enters the blood stream immediately. I can understand this causing a higher serum concentration level, and more of the injection is metabolized at one time, but how can this essentially negate the ester entirely? Is this complete nonsense, or is there a shrivel of truth?

 

[BigDadd7]

Nonsense

 

[AllGoodThings]

Nonsense

Thank you, I assumed as much. I can't even understand his reasoning, as he doesn't say anything beyond the oil depot breaking down faster. Some of his guest speakers seem knowledgeable, but he strikes me more of a product shill, trying to get people to use his discount codes with his affiliates

 

[lukiss96]

I think he's a bit paranoid and trying too hard to justify his "pharma" choices over ugl.

I used to like him in like 2022, but then he quickly became anti steroid guy and supplement pusher.

You gotta realize those people do it for the money at the end of the day. They will say or do what benefits them more. Most of their viewers and potential buyers are teens or early twenties (same shit) trying to get jacked as fast as possible cuz they think by the age of 30 they will be old and not get any women...

 

[narta]

His reasoning has merit. Personally I treat carrier oils like this

MCT for anything esterless or short acting
GSO/CSO for longer esters on a blast
Castor oil for TRT or long haul blasts aka 20+ weeks with long esters

 

[Sampei]

I've searched a bit and couldn't find this directly addressed, but apologies if it has been.

Starting at 13:36 in this video;




I know Vigorous Steve is not a realible source of accurate information, but I still want to try and understand why he's making this claim. He's saying that if you use MCT oil, you have to inject daily, regardless of the ester. His claim is that because the depot is so rapidly dispersed with MCT, it all enters the blood stream immediately. I can understand this causing a higher serum concentration level, and more of the injection is metabolized at one time, but how can this essentially negate the ester entirely? Is this complete nonsense, or is there a shrivel of truth?

Because he is a retard imho. If if was true then all the ppl using test C and E in MCT for TRT would have crazy shit levels and they don't.

 

[ThinBulk]

I use test u in mct. Dosing weekly works well for me. I've gone on vacation for two weeks and been fine. I can easily see how carrier oil effects dispersion time, but it's not nearly to the extent you just described. I cant bother to watch the video...

 

[bob357sig]

Why would there any esters at all if all that was needed to delay absorption was the carrier oil. This notion is rediculous.

 

[ThinBulk]

Why would there any esters at all if all that was needed to delay absorption was the carrier oil. This notion is rediculous.

There's a middle ground to this though. Castor oil is shown in studies to have a longer half life than grape seed. It's just not the only factor. This is a good conversation if anyone has more data on mct. I love how thin mct is.

 

[AllGoodThings]

There's a middle ground to this though. Castor oil is shown in studies to have a longer half life than grape seed. It's just not the only factor. This is a good conversation if anyone has more data on mct. I love how thin mct is.

After some further reading, this is my take as well. He (Vigorous Steve) dramatically overstates the effect by saying all esters need every day injections if they're in MCT. It does seem, however, that the carrier oil viscosity does play some role, even if a small one, in how quickly any given drug is metabolized.

 

[IndividualMan]

The only important thing is that you like the oils you are working with and aren't allergic to the ones you inject.

 

[AlexDavis43]

I think he's a bit paranoid and trying too hard to justify his "pharma" choices over ugl.

I used to like him in like 2022, but then he quickly became anti steroid guy and supplement pusher.

You gotta realize those people do it for the money at the end of the day. They will say or do what benefits them more. Most of their viewers and potential buyers are teens or early twenties (same shit) trying to get jacked as fast as possible cuz they think by the age of 30 they will be old and not get any women...

It's not paranoia. It's him doing anything for content. This is his main source of income.

Maybe paranoid that he'll go broke if he doesn't have spicy content in which case it's justified.

 

[cousinmuscles]

The esters have to be cleaved regardless of how thin the oil is. You could brew your gear in castor oil and get nice depots every injection, but then you can't inject with a slin pin and need large injections and by conseqence less frequent injection.

If you want more stable blood levels, why would you inject less frequently? That makes the whole point moot.

The best advice I have is inject daily with slin pins, whether its TRT, HRT, health phase, cycle, blast, whatever. And use long esters for main compounds and short esters for compounds with higher toxiticy like tren ace, ment ace. In order to inject with slin pins with ease, you need thin oils. I use EO only as a carrier oil, MCT oil could do the job but I can't tolerate it, too much PIP regardless of compound in it. Much less scar tissue, perfectly stable blood levels and easy to do.

 

[ThinBulk]

As im about to order more Test U in MCT, this got me thinking a lot. I had been assuming I'm overly sensitive to test fluctuations now that I'm older (while my gear is now all in MCT). It's been many years since I've been on a big blast in grape seed. Before jamming a bunch of opinions in, I found a few good bits from studies that tested some of the questions brought up here.

Chemistry:Pharmacokinetics of testosterone - HandWiki

The pharmacology of testosterone, an androgen and anabolic steroid (AAS) medication and naturally occurring steroid hormone, concerns its pharmacodynamics, pharmacokinetics, and various routes of administration.

handwiki.org

This is the half life of blood levels.
"4.5 days for testosterone enanthate, 20.9 days (in tea seed oil) and 33.9 days (in caster oil) for testosterone undecanoate."

I've never seen tea seed in UGL, but the viscosity is similar to grape seed. Viscosity seems to be the major factor in release from the muscle into the blood stream. Once the testosterone hits your blood stream, it doesn't just uselessly circulate with the attached ester. From the previous link under IV injection tab, "Testosterone esters like testosterone enanthate are hydrolyzed into testosterone so rapidly in the blood that testosterone and testosterone enanthate have nearly identical pharmacokinetics when administered via intravenous injection." Your body immediately cleaves the ester in the blood stream so fast, test E acts like test base!


A 62% half life increase by going up in viscosity to castor oil is no small amount and should be seen again in the opposite direction when going to MCT. I couldn't find any data on AAS in MCT or even EO. If the jump from MCT is the same 62%, that would mean test U in MCT has a half life of 12.9 days.

Obviously the podcast isn't correct, but if you told me test U in MCT has a half life of even 7-10 days, I would think that lines up well with my experience. 12.9 sounds like an easy guess to have confidence in though. Does anyone have testing data on themselves for any ester in MCT?

 

[Photon]

As im about to order more Test U in MCT, this got me thinking a lot. I had been assuming I'm overly sensitive to test fluctuations now that I'm older (while my gear is now all in MCT). It's been many years since I've been on a big blast in grape seed. Before jamming a bunch of opinions in, I found a few good bits from studies that tested some of the questions brought up here.

Chemistry:Pharmacokinetics of testosterone - HandWiki

The pharmacology of testosterone, an androgen and anabolic steroid (AAS) medication and naturally occurring steroid hormone, concerns its pharmacodynamics, pharmacokinetics, and various routes of administration.

handwiki.org

This is the half life of blood levels.
"4.5 days for testosterone enanthate, 20.9 days (in tea seed oil) and 33.9 days (in caster oil) for testosterone undecanoate."

I've never seen tea seed in UGL, but the viscosity is similar to grape seed. Viscosity seems to be the major factor in release from the muscle into the blood stream. Once the testosterone hits your blood stream, it doesn't just uselessly circulate with the attached ester. From the previous link under IV injection tab, "Testosterone esters like testosterone enanthate are hydrolyzed into testosterone so rapidly in the blood that testosterone and testosterone enanthate have nearly identical pharmacokinetics when administered via intravenous injection." Your body immediately cleaves the ester in the blood stream so fast, test E acts like test base!


A 62% half life increase by going up in viscosity to castor oil is no small amount and should be seen again in the opposite direction when going to MCT. I couldn't find any data on AAS in MCT or even EO. If the jump from MCT is the same 62%, that would mean test U in MCT has a half life of 12.9 days.

Obviously the podcast isn't correct, but if you told me test U in MCT has a half life of even 7-10 days, I would think that lines up well with my experience. 12.9 sounds like an easy guess to have confidence in though. Does anyone have testing data on themselves for any ester in MCT?

One key fact to take note is that they injected 4ml in the glutes(250 mg/ml) of the test subjects. 4ml of castor is going to take significantly longer to breakdown than most of us doing weekly or biweekly injections of small amounts on TRT.

 

[Sampei]

As im about to order more Test U in MCT, this got me thinking a lot. I had been assuming I'm overly sensitive to test fluctuations now that I'm older (while my gear is now all in MCT). It's been many years since I've been on a big blast in grape seed. Before jamming a bunch of opinions in, I found a few good bits from studies that tested some of the questions brought up here.

Chemistry:Pharmacokinetics of testosterone - HandWiki

The pharmacology of testosterone, an androgen and anabolic steroid (AAS) medication and naturally occurring steroid hormone, concerns its pharmacodynamics, pharmacokinetics, and various routes of administration.

handwiki.org

This is the half life of blood levels.
"4.5 days for testosterone enanthate, 20.9 days (in tea seed oil) and 33.9 days (in caster oil) for testosterone undecanoate."

I've never seen tea seed in UGL, but the viscosity is similar to grape seed. Viscosity seems to be the major factor in release from the muscle into the blood stream. Once the testosterone hits your blood stream, it doesn't just uselessly circulate with the attached ester. From the previous link under IV injection tab, "Testosterone esters like testosterone enanthate are hydrolyzed into testosterone so rapidly in the blood that testosterone and testosterone enanthate have nearly identical pharmacokinetics when administered via intravenous injection." Your body immediately cleaves the ester in the blood stream so fast, test E acts like test base!


A 62% half life increase by going up in viscosity to castor oil is no small amount and should be seen again in the opposite direction when going to MCT. I couldn't find any data on AAS in MCT or even EO. If the jump from MCT is the same 62%, that would mean test U in MCT has a half life of 12.9 days.

Obviously the podcast isn't correct, but if you told me test U in MCT has a half life of even 7-10 days, I would think that lines up well with my experience. 12.9 sounds like an easy guess to have confidence in though. Does anyone have testing data on themselves for any ester in MCT?

If you wanna pin test U once every two or three week you can't use MCT. Simple as that.

For once a week or twice a week MCT is perfectly fine.

 

[ThinBulk]

If you wanna pin test U once every two or three week you can't use MCT. Simple as that.

For once a week or twice a week MCT is perfectly fine.

I have been doing once per week. I attempted two weeks, but it feels way too long. It just didn't all click together until this thread.

 

[ThinBulk]

One key fact to take note is that they injected 4ml in the glutes(250 mg/ml) of the test subjects. 4ml of castor is going to take significantly longer to breakdown than most of us doing weekly or biweekly injections of small amounts on TRT.

The tea seed oil comparison i believe was also 4ml, but 125mg/ml.

 

[Photon]

The tea seed oil comparison i believe was also 4ml, but 125mg/ml.

Teaseed 8ml 2 glutes 125mg/ml.
Castor 4ml, 1 glute, 250mg/ml

You can see immediately that its not an apples to apples comparison.

 

[ThinBulk]

Teaseed 8ml 2 glutes 125mg/ml.
Castor 4ml, 1 glute, 250mg/ml

You can see immediately that its not an apples to apples comparison.

You're saying high concentration gear of the same ester and shot size has a longer half life?