Coinbase may monitor who you send payments to up to 4 hops

Blockstream CEO Adam Back:

"Some of the exchanges and wallets are using tracing services, and [if there is a connection to illicit activity] up to four hops deep away from you, they will freeze your account."
This threatens fungibility. Possible solutions are anonymity services like JoinMarket, Tumblebit and MimbleWimble

What If One Bitcoin Isn’t Like the Others? Fungibility Debated At Scaling Conference | CoinDesk

This guy is so full of shit. All they can see is the public key and nothing else. Anything like Alpha Bay change the keys every few days so u can't track anything. All they have is a hexadecimal key which doesn't link to anything. RSA encryption cannot be broken because no computer can hash the prime numbers p and q so even if you have a public key without the corresponding private key u can't trace ur BTC to any website. If you're seriously paranoid u can tumble ur coins.
 
This guy is so full of shit. All they can see is the public key and nothing else. Anything like Alpha Bay change the keys every few days so u can't track anything. All they have is a hexadecimal key which doesn't link to anything. RSA encryption cannot be broken because no computer can hash the prime numbers p and q so even if you have a public key without the corresponding private key u can't trace ur BTC to any website. If you're seriously paranoid u can tumble ur coins.
No. He's 100% correct. Every single bitcoin transaction is public on the blockchain --> Bitcoin Block Explorer

You can follow a transaction as many hops as you have the time and patience (or computing power) to do.
 

ironhardempress

Member
AnabolicLab.com Supporter
i totally gave up on bitcoins. Because my ex husband was red-flagged by MG/WU, i was by extension and I can't use either service so i have to get others to make the transactions for me. i tried to set up bitcoins, and I managed to get a wallet on Mycelium, but can't figure out how to get bitcoins. I tried a small transaction with an online seller, but got ripped off (that's why i started small). My town is too small for there to be any face-to-face sellers. Idk what to do. I guess just keep getting friends to do my WU/MG transactions. That said, I got remarried so my last name is different. Idk if my driver's license number stayed the same. i'm just afraid to try again.
 
Last edited:

master.on

Member
This guy is so full of shit. All they can see is the public key and nothing else. Anything like Alpha Bay change the keys every few days so u can't track anything. All they have is a hexadecimal key which doesn't link to anything. RSA encryption cannot be broken because no computer can hash the prime numbers p and q so even if you have a public key without the corresponding private key u can't trace ur BTC to any website. If you're seriously paranoid u can tumble ur coins.
IMO you SHOULD always tumble your BTcoins

No. He's 100% correct. Every single bitcoin transaction is public on the blockchain --> Bitcoin Block Explorer

You can follow a transaction as many hops as you have the time and patience (or computing power) to do.
Are they still traceable after tumbling?

i totally gave up on bitcoins. Because my ex husband was red-flagged by MG/WU, i was by extension and I can't use either service so i have to get others to make the transactions for me. i tried to set up bitcoins, and I managed to get a wallet on Mycelium, but can't figure out how to get bitcoins. I tried a small transaction with an online seller, but got ripped off (that's why i started small). My town is too small for there to be any face-to-face sellers. Idk what to do. I guess just keep getting friends to do my WU/MG transactions. That said, I got remarried so my last name is different. Idk if my driver's license number stayed the same. i'm just afraid to try again.
Yep, either have friends to send WU/MG for you
or a long drive to another town.
 

master.on

Member
What's the major hang up as to why most labs won't accept cim? Concerned bills are marked by LE?
That's an interesting question. I've always wondered the same thing.

Drug cartels use cash. They seem to get away with marked bills.
Although they CIM wouldn't allow them to move enough of the massive amounts of money they make.
Maybe because juice it's a different animal? Maybe because gear it's legal in some countries?
 
That's an interesting question. I've always wondered the same thing.

Drug cartels use cash. They seem to get away with marked bills.
Although they CIM wouldn't allow them to move enough of the massive amounts of money they make.
Maybe because juice it's a different animal? Maybe because gear it's legal in some countries?

Perhaps it falls into the money laundering angle - what to do with piles of undocumented cash? Bitcoins you can withdraw overseas. WU et al payments to overseas accounts are hard to do anything about, it's not cartel size money.
 
Are they still traceable after tumbling?
Sometimes, yes...

"Address deanonymization using these methods can be thwarted by sending bitcoins through so-called mixers or tumblers, which take a set of bitcoins and returns another set of the same value (minus a processing fee) with different addresses and transaction histories, thus effectively “laundering” the coins. But these services come with serious caveats. Users must hand over control of their bitcoins and trust the service to return them. Transaction graph analysis can identify use of a mixing service and flag the user as potentially suspicious. Mixers do not work well for very large sums, unless others with similarly large sums happen to be mixing their bitcoins at the same time. Some mixing services do not work as advertised and can be reverse-engineered. Services that operate legally must keep detailed records of how the coins were mixed, which could later be hacked or subpoenaed. And the new bitcoins received might themselves be tainted by illegal activity."​

Source: How Anonymous is Bitcoin? | Coin Center

'But even mixing has weaknesses that forensic investigators can exploit. Soon after Silk Road shut down, someone with administrative access to one of the newly emerging black markets walked away with 90,000 Bitcoins from user escrow accounts. The thief tried to use a mixing service to launder the money, but wasn’t patient enough to hide the tracks, Meiklejohn says. “It’s difficult to push large amounts of Bitcoin through mixing services secretly. It’s extremely noticeable no matter how you do it.” Thomas Jiikovský, the man under investigation by Czech police, is suspected to be the thief in question.'​

Source: http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2016/03/why-criminals-cant-hide-behind-bitcoin

'Another technique known as ‘tumbling’ would allow the hackers to pool their ill-begotten bitcoins with other people's coins.

'In a bitcoin tumbling service, coins from different sources are mixed together and then re-disbursed. Conceivably, the hackers could repeatedly mix their coins until the coins were diluted enough to throw law officials off their path.

'But Ethan Heilman, the Boston University researcher behind TumbleBit, a proposed bitcoin tumbler, indicated that mixing bitcoin is risky business, especially when dealing with larger sums of money. As he pointed out, one of the problems the hackers may run into is finding a large enough number of bitcoins to adequately mix with.

'"Even if they mix the coins such that they will be hard to follow, if the WannaCry hackers make a mistake and join the coins back together, those coins could become vulnerable to clustering and other blockchain analysis techniques," he said.

'Further, it is unclear how effective most mixers actually are, Heilman added.'​

Source: The World Is Watching: Can WannaCry's Creators Cash Out Their Bitcoin Ransom? - CoinDesk
 

master.on

Member
Perhaps it falls into the money laundering angle - what to do with piles of undocumented cash? Bitcoins you can withdraw overseas. WU et al payments to overseas accounts are hard to do anything about, it's not cartel size money.

LE following the money - giving up geographic location?
I still don't get why they accept WU/MG that is totally traceable, while rejecting cash that's easier to disguise/dilute.

Maybe it actually has to do with rampant postal theft in their countries?
 
I still don't get why they accept WU/MG that is totally traceable, while rejecting cash that's easier to disguise/dilute.

Maybe it actually has to do with rampant postal theft in their countries?

If it goes overseas, the funds are in the bank already. Maybe hard to dispose of large amounts of foreign cash?
 
Not really
I've read that WU receivers are told to demand cash, then hand it over (minus their commission) to the launderer.

Your description makes sense for domestic distributors.

There's still the currency conversion aspect in regards to overseas recipients.
 

master.on

Member
Your description makes sense for domestic distributors.

There's still the currency conversion aspect in regards to overseas recipients.

U.S. citizens who use the Moldovan postal service have reported that international letters and package mail are sometimes opened or pilfered.
https://www.state.gov/safetravel/moldova/crime.htm


So it looks like widespread postal theft-in shitty countries is the main reason why most sources don't accept Cash In Mail.

Nothing to do with fear of marked bills or currency conversion issues, it seems.

Why they don't use Cash In Mail sent by private couriers?
Parcel cost? Need to constantly move as their receiving addresses get flagged?
 

master.on

Member
U.S. citizens who use the Moldovan postal service have reported that international letters and package mail are sometimes opened or pilfered.
https://www.state.gov/safetravel/moldova/crime.htm


So it looks like widespread postal theft-in shitty countries is the main reason why most sources don't accept Cash In Mail.

Nothing to do with fear of marked bills or currency conversion issues, it seems.

Why they don't use Cash In Mail sent by private couriers?
Parcel cost? Need to constantly move as their receiving addresses get flagged?
This may well happen in a relatively distant future is Btc ever gets regulated:
A few Benjamins tightly packed inside a Xmas card mailed through DHL to "your aunt in Moldova"
Totally feasible IMO

Actually, millions of people send SMALL AMOUNTS of Cash In Mail worldwide
nothing illegal there: they're just old-school seniors, technologically illiterate, or illegal immigrants fearing deportation.
 

MindlessWork

Member
AnabolicLab.com Supporter
This may well happen in a relatively distant future is Btc ever gets regulated:
A few Benjamins tightly packed inside a Xmas card mailed through DHL to "your aunt in Moldova"
Totally feasible IMO

Actually, millions of people send SMALL AMOUNTS of Cash In Mail worldwide
nothing illegal there: they're just old-school seniors, technologically illiterate, or illegal immigrants fearing deportation.
But sending thousands of dollars in cash thru the mail is crazy for sure.
 

master.on

Member
But sending thousands of dollars in cash thru the mail is crazy for sure.
A grand may get some attraction. CIM probably won't work for GH.

but $300 (typical order amount) won't. Especially if sent along a BS Xmas card.
A BS "love letter" would add to it. Just make sure someone else handwrites the letter for you.
 
Top