FR0Z3N_B0MB3RRR
New Member
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What are your thoughts on this?
@mands would be appreciated and answer expecially from you
MESO-Rx
Anabolic Steroids
Confused on this lecture on HGH... Very knowledgeable People please, no fake natties no China middlemen
- Thread starter FR0Z3N_B0MB3RRR
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View: https://ar-ar.facebook.com/taeianthetalkingcamel/photos/a.1547856728833742/1855505098068902/?type=3&locale2=ar_AR
What are your thoughts on this?
@mands would be appreciated and answer expecially from you
I haven't read this entire article but in short yes HGH can cause insulin resistance at higher doses. At lower doses not very much.
His statements are a little overdramatic.
I would agree that insulin is a big factor for muscle growth, it can increase protein synthesis and decrease protein breakdown. But, if you try running insulin alone without AAS/HGH and peptides you usually don't get very far.
I personally haven't ran any insulin but I don't go over 5-6 iu's a day. If you are getting over 6 iu's I would run metformin. With that said if you are a competitor I believe for most insulin would be needed.
The run of the mill gym rat doesn't even need to consider insulin.
I will try and dive into this post later.
mands
His statements are a little overdramatic.
I would agree that insulin is a big factor for muscle growth, it can increase protein synthesis and decrease protein breakdown. But, if you try running insulin alone without AAS/HGH and peptides you usually don't get very far.
I personally haven't ran any insulin but I don't go over 5-6 iu's a day. If you are getting over 6 iu's I would run metformin. With that said if you are a competitor I believe for most insulin would be needed.
The run of the mill gym rat doesn't even need to consider insulin.
I will try and dive into this post later.
mands
Cumminstech
Member
very curious to read your breakdown of the article sir
FR0Z3N_B0MB3RRR
New Member
Very thanks Mands <3
FR0Z3N_B0MB3RRR
New Member
@MisterSuperGod yiu said you never ran HGH... so nor insulin?
i m starting thinking insulin is overhyped since Mands that’s really big said never used and maybe nor MSG, that’s really big too
my coach that’s on 212 said I don’t need insulin and that he worked with Chris Aceto and for years didn’t use insulin, just in last times...
he said “you ll get fluffy and couldn’t train properly for back pump at least”
I had experience with insulin 2 years ago on My first real cycle and I used humalog humulin and even Lantus... I didn’t turn into a freak, now at 1/2 of those Kcals and without insulin and at 1/3 of gear I m bigger and leaner...
I can’t understand who needs insulin since he said “you don’t need” and he knows I wanna compete or at least having a competetive body and have 10-15kg lean tissue more ... so, who the fuck needs insulin other than diabetics?
what the fuck did Ronnie Coleman to add 40kg of lean tissue? He was very cool at 90kg too... so what the fuck have they done? Coleman, Yates, Ruhl, Kevin Levrone...
Ok Coleman genetic freak what do you wanna but in the past he was stable at 90kg and was very aesthetic... so he changed everything and became a monster
i m starting thinking insulin is overhyped since Mands that’s really big said never used and maybe nor MSG, that’s really big too
my coach that’s on 212 said I don’t need insulin and that he worked with Chris Aceto and for years didn’t use insulin, just in last times...
he said “you ll get fluffy and couldn’t train properly for back pump at least”
I had experience with insulin 2 years ago on My first real cycle and I used humalog humulin and even Lantus... I didn’t turn into a freak, now at 1/2 of those Kcals and without insulin and at 1/3 of gear I m bigger and leaner...
I can’t understand who needs insulin since he said “you don’t need” and he knows I wanna compete or at least having a competetive body and have 10-15kg lean tissue more ... so, who the fuck needs insulin other than diabetics?
what the fuck did Ronnie Coleman to add 40kg of lean tissue? He was very cool at 90kg too... so what the fuck have they done? Coleman, Yates, Ruhl, Kevin Levrone...
Ok Coleman genetic freak what do you wanna but in the past he was stable at 90kg and was very aesthetic... so he changed everything and became a monster
Cumminstech
Member
I agree with some points that he makes in the article, however after running GH for a significant time I have noticed total changes in the shape and definition of muscle bellies, as well as it is easier to stay lean on a bulk with it.
I don’t really run GH for the muscle growth, I do it because I like the aesthetics that come with it. However I do hope that over a more significant amount of time it equates to SOME new muscle hyperplasia, that I can then hypertrophy with the use of anabolics.
as far it effecting your insulin resistance, I’ve recently been bad at checking my BG throughout the day, but I will get back into the habit. I use berberine (roughly 3x a day, split) to control BG on GH and found it very effective. I was waking up in the mornings fasted between 4.4 to 4.7 and about 2 hours after meals I was back to around 5.0 (which means the body is ready to start accepting food and nutrients again). I never used very high amounts of GH. I use 4iu pre workout, but just recently have increased to 6iu pre workout.
I try and keep the diet low fat until the end of the day for 2 reasons, one is to not slow digestion so that in 2 hours when it’s time for the next meal, my body is ready (BG wise) to except and transport the nutrients again. Otherwise your just compounding meals and spiking BG and not delivering nutrients into the muscle like he points e other reason is because if I eat too fatty of meals, then with the slower digestion I am also not hungry enough by the time the next meal comes around. Having a meal with some fat before bed though I don’t see the issue, as your next meal isn’t for hours and your body should be ready to accept nutrients again.
I think there’s no doubt that GH can cause some level of insulin resistance, we all talk about it open board before. As long as your aware the effect it has on your blood glucose and are able to manage it, I don’t see it being an issue that will cause any atrophy like he says in the article.
that’s just my thoughts tho and @mands would know better than I and I look forward to his breakdown and thoughts of the article when he has time to get around to it.
TLDR... I think he makes true points, but really stretches them. I believe you should be able to keep BG in check simply with berberine and a well planned diet. I don’t think there’s any doubt that exogenous insulin will increase your bodies ability to transport nutrients and lead to growth though.
I don’t really run GH for the muscle growth, I do it because I like the aesthetics that come with it. However I do hope that over a more significant amount of time it equates to SOME new muscle hyperplasia, that I can then hypertrophy with the use of anabolics.
as far it effecting your insulin resistance, I’ve recently been bad at checking my BG throughout the day, but I will get back into the habit. I use berberine (roughly 3x a day, split) to control BG on GH and found it very effective. I was waking up in the mornings fasted between 4.4 to 4.7 and about 2 hours after meals I was back to around 5.0 (which means the body is ready to start accepting food and nutrients again). I never used very high amounts of GH. I use 4iu pre workout, but just recently have increased to 6iu pre workout.
I try and keep the diet low fat until the end of the day for 2 reasons, one is to not slow digestion so that in 2 hours when it’s time for the next meal, my body is ready (BG wise) to except and transport the nutrients again. Otherwise your just compounding meals and spiking BG and not delivering nutrients into the muscle like he points e other reason is because if I eat too fatty of meals, then with the slower digestion I am also not hungry enough by the time the next meal comes around. Having a meal with some fat before bed though I don’t see the issue, as your next meal isn’t for hours and your body should be ready to accept nutrients again.
I think there’s no doubt that GH can cause some level of insulin resistance, we all talk about it open board before. As long as your aware the effect it has on your blood glucose and are able to manage it, I don’t see it being an issue that will cause any atrophy like he says in the article.
that’s just my thoughts tho and @mands would know better than I and I look forward to his breakdown and thoughts of the article when he has time to get around to it.
TLDR... I think he makes true points, but really stretches them. I believe you should be able to keep BG in check simply with berberine and a well planned diet. I don’t think there’s any doubt that exogenous insulin will increase your bodies ability to transport nutrients and lead to growth though.
MisterSuperGod
New Member
No, never used GH nor Insulin. i can't see myself ever using the latter. i'm still closer to a beginner than anything else in my eyes and have a long way to go before Insulin would ever be anything beyond daydreaming, but again, i don't ever see it happening.
As for Ronnie, he was just a freak. i'm sure he used GH and Insulin and it probably made a hell of a difference. He also had some out of this world genetics. There's a lot of big, BIG guys out there, but there's only one king.
As for Ronnie, he was just a freak. i'm sure he used GH and Insulin and it probably made a hell of a difference. He also had some out of this world genetics. There's a lot of big, BIG guys out there, but there's only one king.
Ferenor
Member
A little bit ot: taeian is also known as "the deca only guy" and "six weeks only cycles"
138casanova
Member
Only problem with berberine is that it can lower your IGF-1 fairly significantly. I've been reading about ALA and it appears to be a possible substitute for berberine. I ordered some yesterday and will start tomorrow. I'll keep you posted.
LittleD90
Member
Make sure it’s na-r-ala
Plain ass ala does nothing something to do with it containing s-ala and r-ala the s ruins the other one
And the na-r one is even more stable I think it’s something like 10-30times more potent than plain r-ala
I have tried both
Cumminstech
Member
“Berberine improves physiological stimulation of glucose via cascade reaction of insulin-like growth factor-1 (IGF-1), thus inducing secretion of insulin in the body, reducing insulin resistance, and improving sensitivity of liver, muscle tissues and fat to insulin (16).”
The scientific terminology of a cascade reaction in biology is 2 things working in conjunction with eachother.
If I’m reading this study correct, it doesn’t actually reduce your IGF-1 but makes your body respond differently in conjunction with IGF-1 by releasing more endogenous insulin, and elevated BG attaching to the attached IGF-1 acts as the switching mechanism.
am I the only one interpreting it that way? I’m not trying to argue, I could be interpreting it wrong. These fucking studies I swear they have to use the most confusing terminology possible lol. Here’s the link to the study.
Effects of berberine on glucose-lipid metabolism, inflammatory factors and insulin resistance in patients with metabolic syndrome - PMC
Effects of berberine on glucose-lipid metabolism, inflammatory factors and insulin resistance in patients with metabolic syndrome were investigated. Eighty patients with metabolic syndrome treated in Linyi Central Hospital from January 2017 to ...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
138casanova
Member
I'm not sure. Maybe someone smarter can weigh in.? I did read this:“Berberine improves physiological stimulation of glucose via cascade reaction of insulin-like growth factor-1 (IGF-1), thus inducing secretion of insulin in the body, reducing insulin resistance, and improving sensitivity of liver, muscle tissues and fat to insulin (16).”
The scientific terminology of a cascade reaction in biology is 2 things working in conjunction with eachother.
If I’m reading this study correct, it doesn’t actually reduce your IGF-1 but makes your body respond differently in conjunction with IGF-1 by releasing more endogenous insulin, and elevated BG attaching to the attached IGF-1 acts as the switching mechanism.
am I the only one interpreting it that way? I’m not trying to argue, I could be interpreting it wrong. These fucking studies I swear they have to use the most confusing terminology possible lol. Here’s the link to the study.
Effects of berberine on glucose-lipid metabolism, inflammatory factors and insulin resistance in patients with metabolic syndrome - PMC
Effects of berberine on glucose-lipid metabolism, inflammatory factors and insulin resistance in patients with metabolic syndrome were investigated. Eighty patients with metabolic syndrome treated in Linyi Central Hospital from January 2017 to ...
The effects of Berberis vulgaris consumption on plasma levels of IGF-1, IGFBPs, PPAR-γ and the expression of angiogenic genes in women with benign breast disease: a randomized controlled clinical trial - BMC Complementary Medicine and Therapies
Background The present study was designed to investigate the effects of Berberis vulgaris (BV) juice consumption on plasma levels of insulin-like growth factor (IGF-1), IGF-binding proteins (IGFBPs), and the expression of PPAR-γ, VEGF and HIF in women with benign breast disease. Methods This...
bmccomplementmedtherapies.biomedcentral.com
There's a meso berberine thread that was started a couple of days ago as well. Check it out when you get a chance.
I don't think a lot of people truly understand, or want to believe the amount of drugs that are used by these guys. How did guys like Coleman, Yates, etc get that big? Massive doses of GH, and Insulin along with massive doses of anabolics. Yates was the first one to really push the envelope with GH, and it showed because he had thickness and density that not many if any had at that time. I know a top level amateur guy that no longer competes, and he said just the base dose of testosterone is 5 grams per week, and when cruising he used a vial(18iu) of Serostim per day. Insulin use was what deterred him from continuing to compete, as he said it would require over 100iu per day of a combo of Lantus, and Humalog. My brother competed at junior nationals as a heavyweight about 6 years ago, and most everyone was open about their drug use, and it was mind boggling the amount of GH and insulin that these guys were using. 15-20iu of GH was common, along with around 100iu of different insulins per day. These were guys at junior nationals taking this much shit. Any pro, or top level amateur that says they only use 4iu of GH per day is full of shit, plain and simple. A 'friend' of mine, that was a top level supplier in the late 90s/early 2000's had an uncle that lived in England that was a chemist that supplied for one of the biggest labs, and also had access to anything and everything in Europe, was close with Yates, and he used astronomical amounts of GH, far, far more than the 4iu he claimed he used when asked in interviews.
malfeasance
Member
Well, seriously, how do broke bodybuilders trying to compete and get big buy all of this growth hormone? Sure, after you are at the Olympia level, you probably have several hundred thousand dollars a year in endorsement contracts, but new pros, and amateurs, do not make any money from bodybuilding. Many of them are working full time and trying to bodybuild and make that into a living. They can't do 18 iu of serostim a day. How did your top level amateur acquaintance afford that?
FR0Z3N_B0MB3RRR
New Member
i think there are some (lot) that don’t run those dosages... because we all saw that More isn’t always More ... My 2 cents
TrennedOutLunatic
Banned
If you are really into a thing....like,really into a thing and it's pretty expensive...
You will find "ways" to "fund" it.
I am not talking about an 9-5 job.
I am not even talking about legal or ordinary stuff.
But fuck me,18iu of serostim is a fuckload of money.
It would require quite some non-legal shit to fund it.
I don't really know. Just my thoughts.
I don't know if my English makes sense?
FR0Z3N_B0MB3RRR
New Member
No comprendo tu idioma Cabron
People with shit genetics will ALWAYS be using more PEDS it's as simple as that and gifted guys will use the least amount necessary. Look at Platz, he combined his amazing genetics with MASSIVE amounts of hard work and most likely moderate PED use and the guy had the best legs of anyone ever lol and I highly doubt he was using a shit ton of hgh/slin back then. It's genetics combined with hard work/will power and PED use is dead fucking last imho 
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