Could Hillary run on an Independent Ticket??

Dennis couldn't be more correct! Away from the amazing but orchestrated speeches, Obama has nothing to offer the American people. Unless you count legalized murder, infanticide, and gay marriage! Religion is not the issue. When we as a country define abortion as a "woman's right", we are just opening the door to more erosion of morality and decency. Gay marriage is the same. Everything immorale and dirty is now just an "expression" of one's self. This is a farse and the very people involved know that it is wrong.

I see abortion as a woman's right because until the fetus develops a brain there is no definative way in which it is more alive than an egg or sperm (are you calling every nocturnal emmission murder?). I agree late stage abortions (3rd trimester unless the mother is in danger, maybe the 2nd trimester unless it was absolutely unknown, but in the 1st trimester there is no brain, and no thought even in the 2nd). If you have religious views that it is alive thats fine, but scientifically since it is not yet sentient it is no more alive than the sperm was (and most of those died even in a successful pregnency). That is not to say I think abortions are good, but they should not be illegal. And they have gone up under Bush since he does believe in teaching sex ed, and McCain will be more of the same. And even if you make it illegal you just put it into the back alley.

As far as gays go, do you believe divorce should be legal? Because Christ mentions divorce many times more often than homosexuality. And how do homosexuals hurt you? If they try to force themselves on you that would be a crime, but rape and peodophilia are actually more common in heterosexuals. The vast majority of evidence points to people being born more or less gay (everyone has some degree of attraction to the same sex weither they acknowledge it or not, and it has been shown that people who are homophobic often have repressed homosexual tendencies and can't cope with them; there is a scale showing level of attraction that was made by I believe Kinsey). Do you believe you have a right to use AAS? I do because it is my personal choice and I don't want the government telling me what to do. Homophobia is just more uneducated bigotry that is morally ghoulish (also one study showed that in bodybuilding 30% of participants were gay (it is actually big in the gay community) and from having a sister who is a lesbian with gay male friends would tell you the gay community has actually given alot of support to bodybuilding).
 
I see abortion as a woman's right because until the fetus develops a brain there is no definative way in which it is more alive than an egg or sperm (are you calling every nocturnal emmission murder?). I agree late stage abortions (3rd trimester unless the mother is in danger, maybe the 2nd trimester unless it was absolutely unknown, but in the 1st trimester there is no brain, and no thought even in the 2nd). If you have religious views that it is alive thats fine, but scientifically since it is not yet sentient it is no more alive than the sperm was (and most of those died even in a successful pregnency). That is not to say I think abortions are good, but they should not be illegal. And they have gone up under Bush since he does believe in teaching sex ed, and McCain will be more of the same. And even if you make it illegal you just put it into the back alley.

As far as gays go, do you believe divorce should be legal? Because Christ mentions divorce many times more often than homosexuality. And how do homosexuals hurt you? If they try to force themselves on you that would be a crime, but rape and peodophilia are actually more common in heterosexuals. The vast majority of evidence points to people being born more or less gay (everyone has some degree of attraction to the same sex weither they acknowledge it or not, and it has been shown that people who are homophobic often have repressed homosexual tendencies and can't cope with them; there is a scale showing level of attraction that was made by I believe Kinsey). Do you believe you have a right to use AAS? I do because it is my personal choice and I don't want the government telling me what to do. Homophobia is just more uneducated bigotry that is morally ghoulish (also one study showed that in bodybuilding 30% of participants were gay (it is actually big in the gay community) and from having a sister who is a lesbian with gay male friends would tell you the gay community has actually given alot of support to bodybuilding).
Life happens at conception bro.Divorce is rampant in our nation,a serious problem further showing the decay of our society.The bible is very clear on abortion,homosexuality,and divorce.God hates all three.The bible teaches that divorce is permissable if unfaithfullness/adultery is commited.You asking if gays hurt me is like me asking you if divorced people hurt you..pretty silly question.Sin is is in Gods eyes,I sin every day and am not perfect.Can gays and divorced people go to church ? Of course they can,just like I can after lying,cheating or stealing something..as the sin is commited by a believer the holy spirit convicts us,we pray,confess, and hopefully repent from the sin.Do I have a right to use aas..actually no..not in this country unless I have a prescription for it.It is against the law,if it were readily availible along with other powerfull drugs there would be widespread abuse and much dammage done.A gay can promote/support bodybuilding all he wants to,so can a divorced person,a thief,a liar and etc....back to Obama..he does not have the experience to lead this country,and he has ties to muslims,hate filled extremist,terror organizations,..he has never acomplished anything but pretty speeches.
 
Life happens at conception bro.Divorce is rampant in our nation,a serious problem further showing the decay of our society.The bible is very clear on abortion,homosexuality,and divorce.God hates all three.The bible teaches that divorce is permissable if unfaithfullness/adultery is commited.You asking if gays hurt me is like me asking you if divorced people hurt you..pretty silly question.Sin is is in Gods eyes,I sin every day and am not perfect.Can gays and divorced people go to church ? Of course they can,just like I can after lying,cheating or stealing something..as the sin is commited by a believer the holy spirit convicts us,we pray,confess, and hopefully repent from the sin.Do I have a right to use aas..actually no..not in this country unless I have a prescription for it.It is against the law,if it were readily availible along with other powerfull drugs there would be widespread abuse and much dammage done.A gay can promote/support bodybuilding all he wants to,so can a divorced person,a thief,a liar and etc....back to Obama..he does not have the experience to lead this country,and he has ties to muslims,hate filled extremist,terror organizations,..he has never acomplished anything but pretty speeches.

Dennis, you keep mentioning ties to extremist muslims and obama. Do you have any evidence other than his name and his old pastor? You have a lot of claims about obama but nothing to back them up. And bill o'reilly doesn't count as a credible source. You keep spouting the same lines about obama but aren't really saying much.

i dont recall ever reading or hearing that jesus christ "hated" anything. Divorce, homosexuals, and abortion are not the cause of decay in our country. Its lack of education which leads to poor decisions and inaccurate ways of thinking about others. Mccain may be an old experience fossil, but he has old tired ways of thinking too. Very much like bush. Obama doesn't have the years of experience but he has a new perspective, way of thinking that is what this country needs.
 
Life happens at conception bro.Divorce is rampant in our nation,a serious problem further showing the decay of our society.The bible is very clear on abortion,homosexuality,and divorce.God hates all three.The bible teaches that divorce is permissable if unfaithfullness/adultery is commited.You asking if gays hurt me is like me asking you if divorced people hurt you..pretty silly question.Sin is is in Gods eyes,I sin every day and am not perfect.Can gays and divorced people go to church ? Of course they can,just like I can after lying,cheating or stealing something..as the sin is commited by a believer the holy spirit convicts us,we pray,confess, and hopefully repent from the sin.Do I have a right to use aas..actually no..not in this country unless I have a prescription for it.It is against the law,if it were readily availible along with other powerfull drugs there would be widespread abuse and much dammage done.A gay can promote/support bodybuilding all he wants to,so can a divorced person,a thief,a liar and etc....back to Obama..he does not have the experience to lead this country,and he has ties to muslims,hate filled extremist,terror organizations,..he has never acomplished anything but pretty speeches.

I'm not saying the Bible does not say Homosexuality is wrong, I happen to disagree with it on this point (it was put to the paper by men, not directly by God or Jesus). But as a nation of laws we cannot discriminate against them.
 
I'm not saying the Bible does not say Homosexuality is wrong, I happen to disagree with it on this point (it was put to the paper by men, not directly by God or Jesus). But as a nation of laws we cannot discriminate against them.

How about Khalid al Monsour,Farakan sp? just to name a few..plus several of his tribe/family..excuse me.You disagree with the Bible ???/I guess most liberals do come to think of it.I said God hated divorce/homosexuality/abortion..when you understand the bible you will see that.The bible say's homosexuality is wrong..that is enough for me.
 
How about Khalid al Monsour,Farakan sp? just to name a few..plus several of his tribe/family..excuse me.You disagree with the Bible ???/I guess most liberals do come to think of it.I said God hated divorce/homosexuality/abortion..when you understand the bible you will see that.The bible say's homosexuality is wrong..that is enough for me.

Everyone disagrees with some parts of the Bible, because the Bible contradicts itself at some point. And the Bible has nothing to do wth making laws, if it did why wouldn't you use the Koran, the Baghvad Gita (which I believe is the Hindu text), etc in addition. I'm a christian but realize not everyone is.

Another thing is some parts of the Bible were meant to just be practical and applied to the time instead of really being a moral issues. For example, pork was forbidden at the time because they could not protect themselves from trichinosis, homosexuality was a problem because at that time the mortality rate was so high we needed all the reproduction we could to help the species survive.

And there are many points on which conservatives disagree with the Bible, for one you are supposed to love everyone and hate no one. The death penalty would definately be out because we know Jesus was against it (remember when he stopped by a stoning (execution) and said "let he who is without sin cast the first stone" ?). War would be out, because if someone hits you you should turn the other cheek.

Also Jesus seemed to support communism/socialism (you could argue he would not have gotten involved at a government level due to him saying "render on to ceaser's what is ceaser's and to god what is god's", but that would not support making laws against homosexuals):

16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? 17 And he said unto him, Why do you ask me about what is good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. 18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, 19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 20 The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet? 21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me. 22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions. 23 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven. 24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

If a rich man can't go to heaven, that would be a view endorsing distribution of wealth in my book.

31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory; 32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats; 33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. 34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world; 35 For I was hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in; 36 Naked, and ye clothed me; I was sick, and ye visited me; I was in prison, and ye came unto me. 37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? 38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? 39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? 40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me. 41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels; 42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat; I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink; 43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in; naked, and ye clothed me not; sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. 44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee hungered, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? 45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. 46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment; but the righteous into life eternal.

- that says we should provide for those in need.

Leviticus 25:35-38: "If one [...] becomes poor [...] help him [...] so he can continue to live among you. Do not take interest of any kind from him, but fear your God [...] You must not lend him money at interest or sell him food at a profit. I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt to give you the land of Canaan and to be your God." and Acts 4:32-35, "All the believers were one in heart and mind. No one claimed that any of his possessions was his own, but they shared everything they had [...] there were no needy persons among them [...] the money [...] was distributed to anyone as he had need." As well as Acts 2:42-47, "They devoted themselves to the apostles' teaching [...] to the breaking of bread [...] everyone was filled with awe [...] all the believers were together and had everything in common [...] they gave to anyone as he had need. Every day they [...] ate together with glad and sincere hearts [...] "

- I don't think I even need to explain that one.

In my mind Jesus was much closer to a liberal than a conservative.
 
Everyone disagrees with some parts of the Bible, because the Bible contradicts itself at some point. And the Bible has nothing to do wth making laws, if it did why wouldn't you use the Koran, the Baghvad Gita (which I believe is the Hindu text), etc in addition. I'm a christian but realize not everyone is.

Another thing is some parts of the Bible were meant to just be practical and applied to the time instead of really being a moral issues. For example, pork was forbidden at the time because they could not protect themselves from trichinosis, homosexuality was a problem because at that time the mortality rate was so high we needed all the reproduction we could to help the species survive.

And there are many points on which conservatives disagree with the Bible, for one you are supposed to love everyone and hate no one. The death penalty would definately be out because we know Jesus was against it (remember when he stopped by a stoning (execution) and said "let he who is without sin cast the first stone" ?). War would be out, because if someone hits you you should turn the other cheek.

Also Jesus seemed to support communism/socialism (you could argue he would not have gotten involved at a government level due to him saying "render on to ceaser's what is ceaser's and to god what is god's", but that would not support making laws against homosexuals):

16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? 17 And he said unto him, Why do you ask me about what is good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. 18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, 19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 20 The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet? 21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me. 22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions. 23 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven. 24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

If a rich man can't go to heaven, that would be a view endorsing distribution of wealth in my book.

31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory; 32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats; 33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. 34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world; 35 For I was hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in; 36 Naked, and ye clothed me; I was sick, and ye visited me; I was in prison, and ye came unto me. 37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? 38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? 39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? 40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me. 41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels; 42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat; I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink; 43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in; naked, and ye clothed me not; sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. 44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee hungered, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? 45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. 46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment; but the righteous into life eternal.

- that says we should provide for those in need.

Leviticus 25:35-38: "If one [...] becomes poor [...] help him [...] so he can continue to live among you. Do not take interest of any kind from him, but fear your God [...] You must not lend him money at interest or sell him food at a profit. I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt to give you the land of Canaan and to be your God." and Acts 4:32-35, "All the believers were one in heart and mind. No one claimed that any of his possessions was his own, but they shared everything they had [...] there were no needy persons among them [...] the money [...] was distributed to anyone as he had need." As well as Acts 2:42-47, "They devoted themselves to the apostles' teaching [...] to the breaking of bread [...] everyone was filled with awe [...] all the believers were together and had everything in common [...] they gave to anyone as he had need. Every day they [...] ate together with glad and sincere hearts [...] "

- I don't think I even need to explain that one.

In my mind Jesus was much closer to a liberal than a conservative.
I can see that you have chosen to misinterpret the bible to suit your specific beliefs.Not everyone disagrees with some parts of the bible..and the bible never contradicts itself.The old testament deals with the "law"..the new testament deals with the ''gospel".Homosexuality is wrong because god said one man one woman should come together.You ever read the verse about "an eye for an eye".You saying Jesus supported socialism/communism is ridiculous..he supported love and peace.I think what you are trying to say is this ..."Jesus supported socialism and communism so it is ok if Barrack takes us in that direction".And " being homo is cool these days because the world is already over populated".The verse about the eye of a needle and a camel does not say a rich man cannot go to heaven..it is just harder to get there for him..can't you read?If you are such a well versed christian then why support a candidate the goes against christian values????Yes..we should help the needy but the bible says.."If a man shall not work a man shall not eat"let me guess..the liberal thoughts on this are.." momma's baby has three more babies ,she does not work,we should keep sending her welfare/benefits etc...???We should take care of illegals,and scum of the earth leeches before ourselves?Acts;32-35 I guess you are comparing this to a hippy compound or Woodstock ,or even a goverment run by communism?You and i do not think alike at all..I definately am a conservative.
 
For the few members on here that think we should have Obama for president go read my 2 threads!

E
 
Bridger and Novice....you two cannot seriously be considering voting for Barrack can you ? And about my religion(Christian) I am concerned about Obama having ties with many terrorist organizations,his muslim roots,his reverand,ties to marxism/socialism etc..yes,this worries me.The definition of an enemy for me is anyone who we are at war with.........

Yes i will be voting for barack hussien obama this november. Muslim or not we need a change of direction in this country. All this bullshit rhetoric about religion and terrorism aside, which you have nothing to back it up with. John macain is not capable of taking america in a new direction, he is too much like george bush no matter how much he is trying to distance himself lately. The country is going nowhere fast. do we want to trust someone who is like the guy who got us into this poor state, cutting taxes and spending like crazy( as a proud republican does), awful foreign policy(none), no social awareness, Do you really think more of the same will make america better?

I know this won't matter because you've already made up your mind. But im sure even you know that if you are getting poor results with a workout routine, do you keep at it or change it? If you could get past your racisim and fear of change you would know that john mcain is not what america needs.
 
For the few members on here that think we should have Obama for president go read my 2 threads!

E


I did and wasn't impressed. If you asked another person who was in that same situation they would say something different. eyewitness testimony is usually not the most reliable thing. Im sure people wold even say the same thing about a visit from mccain or bush. perception is too variable from person to person.
 
Our current president has a higher aproval rating than the democratic controlled congress.Americans voting for a muslim shows the current state of decay our society suffers from.I am not saying I would never vote for a democrat but will not vote for one as shady as barrack/barry.......I am not in favor of a muslim infilterating our society from within to destroy it.
 
Bridger's mind set is that of a Dem or liberal! You believe that it is perfectly ok and normal to tax the businesses ( maybe more taxes will encourage them to keep jobs here in the US), tax the wealthy people...who got that way because when 90% of their peers where going to work and doing the bare minimum, the absolute least that they can do to keep a job, they were working 80-90 hours a week, taking on incredible amounts of student loans to get their education to separate themselves, or taking on the norm and starting their own company and again, taking on huge amounts of risk and debt! What a novel idea, lets take from the hard working 20%, and give to the appathetic, fat and lazy 80%!

Whos gonna pay for the government funded health care? What is the national obesity rate in this country? You want to pay for their lack of planning to take care of themselves? Look at the people who are whinning about not having health care...the cake eating, cigareete smoking non-working out americans! Wake up my friend. Don't you want to live in a society that rewards hard work, as opposed to rewarding laziness? Why punish success in this country?
 
Why punish success in this country ? Because that is the democratic process.True liberals prove that the US war on drugs is not working.[:o)]
 
Makes me sick that this do nothing guy barrack has worked 123 days,never acomplished anything and now has spent half his time running for president ! Wonder who is paying for this ?
 
I do love the bias. All these unsubstantiated crap about Barrack but all the other politicians just get a pass huh?

Barack is supposedly such a threat to this country yet the greed on wallstreet and major business collapse under this Bush Administration just gets a pass.

AIG, Lehman Bros, Washington Mutual, Freddie and Fannie, countless small banks, Enron, highest unemployment rate in 7 years, Stock market loss over a $1trillion dollars in value this year alone, $10billion dollars a month spent in Iraq per month despite Iraq sitting on over $80billion in oil revenue, Afghanistan in absolute turmoil, and a potential financial crisis that could put us in yet another depression and yet in this very thread you had a few who tried to suggest that President Bush was stymied by the Dems despite having majority in congress for 6 out of the pas 8 years, the majority in Governors for the past 6 years and equal members in the senate.

Laughable. But Barack is more of a threat.

Ron Paul is the answer. Go to youtube and see how many times he was right about everything from this current housing crisis and bank bailouts to the Iraq war.
 
Novicebb-
When was the last time you were here in Iraq? You cite all the companies that the current administration is bailing out, but you forget the true catalyst for these companies failing! You should educate yourself and get some facts about the 1977 CRA Act. There is no bias, just concerned Americans that deserve answers. I will not shy away from questions for the sake of affirmative action in the white house! Republicans and Dems are to blame, not just one party. And until we as Americans start looking at issues instead of maintaining some "party" loyalty, our country will get nowhere wouldn't you agree?
 
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