Crashed E2 Question

[fike]

Is my E2 really considered crashed if I’m not experiencing any negative low E2 symptoms and my SHBG is also very low to match where my E2 levels are?

I want to preface before going further into my post. I am currently on 250 test cyp, 100 Deca, 500 EQ, 400 Primo weekly, 500 IU HCG EOD, 25 Var and 3 IU GH daily. if anyone wishes to state that that EQ is crashing my E2, it does not do this to me. I actually experience a drastic rise in E2, hence the Arimidex dosage.

This is pre-primo; I was taking .25 arimidex twice weekly to counteract high E2 symptoms from EQ use before adding Primo to my cycle. Be open minded here. Before adding Primo E2 was at 35 pg/ml and after the addition of the primo my E2 level shot down to 7 ph/ml. My SHBG serum was also at 4.1 nmol/l. I have decided to drop the arimidex, but my levels were probably like this for at least a couple of weeks. I did not experience any symptoms of low E2 at all from what k could tell. Everything seemed to be in check. Good erections, libido was good, didn’t feel bad at all.

I like my E2 to be close to 40, but would y'all consider this a crash if I was not experiencing any negative symptoms associated with low E2, even though my level was at 7.2? With SHBG being so low, would that mean more free E2 is in my system getting used and not making me feel Like shit?

This is just a discussion question. I’m not really looking for advice. Just wondering your thoughts.

 

[Titan18]

My guess is you might feel fine now but over time an E2 that low might cause issues given enough time. You didn't state your goal, but if you're trying to grow it might be difficult with so little circulating estrogen.

 

[fike]

My guess is you might feel fine now but over time an E2 that low might cause issues given enough time. You didn't state your goal, but if you're trying to grow it might be difficult with so little circulating estrogen.

Yes, sir. I am trying to gain size and strength. I’m coming back off a torn pectoral tendon injury. I’ve dropped the arimidex and am going to perform follow up labs in about 4 weeks to see where I’m at. I’m guessing the addition of the primo really pushed my levels down.

 

[Titan18]

Yes, sir. I am trying to gain size and strength. I’m coming back off a torn pectoral tendon injury. I’ve dropped the arimidex and am going to perform follow up labs in about 4 weeks to see where I’m at. I’m guessing the addition of the primo really pushed my levels down.

There's a recent trend of guys using exogenous estrogen in situations like yours. Not sure how I feel about that one though.

 

[-Maui-]

This is just a discussion question. I’m not really looking for advice. Just wondering your thoughts.

Low estradiol is actually better tolerated with low SHBG.
It's good that you're not experiencing any side effects.
I don't think it will make much difference to the efficiency of the cycle.
And if you want an opinion... Let me ask you, whose drugs?

 

[BigTomJ]

Now that you've dropped the adex I'd just get another set of bloodwork to look at your e2 now.

Typically, at least for me, it takes several weeks of sustained lower e2 for me to notice any of the telltale low e2 side effects.

 

[fike]

There's a recent trend of guys using exogenous estrogen in situations like yours. Not sure how I feel about that one though.

I also don’t know how I feel about this, especially since I haven’t experienced and negative sides yet. But I’ve also been reading about this.

 

[fike]

Low estradiol is actually better tolerated with low SHBG.
It's good that you're not experiencing any side effects.
I don't think it will make much difference to the efficiency of the cycle.
And if you want an opinion... Let me ask you, whose drugs?

Having lower E2 as long as SHBG is also very low to match is acceptable according to how my TRT provider explained it to me, but I definitely don’t want to run the risk of experiencing crashed symptoms.

Test, deca, and primo is GL, EQ is Axle, Var is Rido, HCG is Pregnyl, and GH is Opti. All good stuff.

 

[fike]

Now that you've dropped the adex I'd just get another set of bloodwork to look at your e2 now.

Typically, at least for me, it takes several weeks of sustained lower e2 for me to notice any of the telltale low e2 side effects.

Hey. Bigtom. It’s only been a week since I dropped the arimidex. I figured I’d give it 4 weeks to clear my system good and see where my levels rise to. That seem like a reasonable timeframe to you?

 

[BigTomJ]

Hey. Bigtom. It’s only been a week since I dropped the arimidex. I figured I’d give it 4 weeks to clear my system good and see where my levels rise to. That seem like a reasonable timeframe to you?

Sounds perfectly reasonable

 

[tangenial]

Is my E2 really considered crashed if I’m not experiencing any negative low E2 symptoms and my SHBG is also very low to match where my E2 levels are?

I want to preface before going further into my post. I am currently on 250 test cyp, 100 Deca, 500 EQ, 400 Primo weekly, 500 IU HCG EOD, 25 Var and 3 IU GH daily. if anyone wishes to state that that EQ is crashing my E2, it does not do this to me. I actually experience a drastic rise in E2, hence the Arimidex dosage.

This is pre-primo; I was taking .25 arimidex twice weekly to counteract high E2 symptoms from EQ use before adding Primo to my cycle. Be open minded here. Before adding Primo E2 was at 35 pg/ml and after the addition of the primo my E2 level shot down to 7 ph/ml. My SHBG serum was also at 4.1 nmol/l. I have decided to drop the arimidex, but my levels were probably like this for at least a couple of weeks. I did not experience any symptoms of low E2 at all from what k could tell. Everything seemed to be in check. Good erections, libido was good, didn’t feel bad at all.

I like my E2 to be close to 40, but would y'all consider this a crash if I was not experiencing any negative symptoms associated with low E2, even though my level was at 7.2? With SHBG being so low, would that mean more free E2 is in my system getting used and not making me feel Like shit?

This is just a discussion question. I’m not really looking for advice. Just wondering your thoughts.

I mean its low but if you don't feel the symptoms, that is what is most important. If you start to feel symptoms, lower the adex dose and retest.

Basically, I don't consider it a "crash" myself until I start to feel shitty. You aren't gonna die with your E2 at current numbers but some would tell you that you are potentially missing out on better gains but you seem to respond differently to lower E2 vs others.

PS - just read your plan- sounds like a decent approach.

 

[buck]

Having E2 that low may not give symptoms but those sort of numbers have been shown to lead to higher likely hood of heart problems. Would seem to depend on how long you are willing to have your levels not be in the optimal range.

 

[fike]

I mean its low but if you don't feel the symptoms, that is what is most important. If you start to feel symptoms, lower the adex dose and retest.

Basically, I don't consider it a "crash" myself until I start to feel shitty. You aren't gonna die with your E2 at current numbers but some would tell you that you are potentially missing out on better gains but you seem to respond differently to lower E2 vs others.

PS - just read your plan- sounds like a decent approach.

Thanks for your input. I thought I feel better with my E2 around 40, but I can’t really tell a difference at the moment. Maybe, like @BigTomJ mentioned above concerning himself, I just haven’t felt the effects as of yet, but they could be creeping up. I’ve never crashed my estrogen before so I don’t truly know what it feels like as far as I know. It sounds shitty though. I defined don’t want to miss out on potential gains though, even more so while I’m in this state of recovery.

Yes, I’m concerned about the libido distinction because my wife is pregnant and her hormones are everywhere and she wants the D at least twice a day if I would let her. She can’t get enough of me right now. Shes borderline rapey with me. Haha. Being able to recover properly is definitely my main concern at the moment. If low E2 is hindering my body from repairing muscle and tendons properly, I definitely want to get it up regardless of whether I’m feeling sides or not.

 

[fike]

Having E2 that low may not give symptoms but those sort of numbers have been shown to lead to higher likely hood of heart problems. Would seem to depend on how long you are willing to have your levels not be in the optimal range.

Not too long. I try to stay n top of my preventive maintenance with this stuff. I thank God that my routine bloodwork and metabolic panels, lipid panels, inflammation levels, kidney function, and all other measurable blood markers are the best they’ve been since Sep 2019 when I was diagnosed with systemic lupus and stage II chronic kidney disease in 2021. I don’t the positive or negative effects AASs have provided, but I sure feel a lot better and my numbers have gradually gotten better since I started using test in early 2021. I believe every compound I’ve used with the exception of Winstrol and yk-11 has had a positive influence on disease progression. Maybe it has knocked my overactive immune system back down or something, but I honestly don’t know. I used to be a very sick man. I don’t want to apprise that by having estrogen that’s too low though.

 

[BigTomJ]

Thanks for your input. I thought I feel better with my E2 around 40, but I can’t really tell a difference at the moment. Maybe, like @BigTomJ mentioned above concerning himself, I just haven’t felt the effects as of yet, but they could be creeping up. I’ve never crashed my estrogen before so I don’t truly know what it feels like as far as I know. It sounds shitty though. I defined don’t want to miss out on potential gains though, even more so while I’m in this state of recovery.

Yes, I’m concerned about the libido distinction because my wife is pregnant and her hormones are everywhere and she wants the D at least twice a day if I would let her. She can’t get enough of me right now. Shes borderline rapey with me. Haha. Being able to recover properly is definitely my main concern at the moment. If low E2 is hindering my body from repairing muscle and tendons properly, I definitely want to get it up regardless of whether I’m feeling sides or not.

I'm the same way, I feel the best with my e2 in the 40-52 range, but I have to manage it very carefully because I'm gyno sensitive and any higher I start to get issues.

For me, when my e2 was crashed, I noticed ED first.
Nothing crazy, but I'd would go soft halfway through, no matter how good it felt like 20% of the time, and need to take a break and my girl would have to work me back up to bring it home. Libito definitely dropped like a rock and I was fatigued/lethargic almost like I had a bad cold coming or just getting over a bad cold, if that makes sense.

 

[Amgiji]

My guess is you might feel fine now but over time an E2 that low might cause issues given enough time. You didn't state your goal, but if you're trying to grow it might be difficult with so little circulating estrogen.

if he's not having symptoms why would low E2 slow muscle growth?

 

[Titan18]

if he's not having symptoms why would low E2 slow muscle growth?

 

[-Maui-]

The anabolic effect of estrogens on nitrogen metabolism of growing and finishing cattle and sheep - PubMed

Estrogenic compounds are effective in stimulating live weight gains and improving feed efficiency of growing and finishing ruminants. With the proper use of diethylstilbestrol or estradiol, weight gain and feed efficiency are improved approximately 15 and 12 percent, respectively. The...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

"These studies, along with the observation that an intact pituitary gland is necessary for estrogens to increase nitrogen retention in sheep, support the theory that estrogens are anabolic in ruminants because of increased secretion of growth hormone by the anterior pituitary. If follows that the increased secretion of growth hormone results in increased blood glucose which then stimulates secretion of insulin. Both growth hormone and insulin would be stimulatory to protein synthesis. This theory of the mode of action is further supported by the findings that injections of growth hormone closely resemble the effects of diethylstilbestrol on nitrogen retention and blood metabolites in sheep."

​

Testosterone and Progesterone, But Not Estradiol, Stimulate Muscle Protein Synthesis in Postmenopausal Women

Context:. The effect of the female sex steroids, estradiol and progesterone, on muscle protein turnover is unclear. Therefore, it is unknown whether the ch

academic.oup.com

"Testosterone and Progesterone, But Not Estradiol, Stimulate Muscle Protein Synthesis in Postmenopausal Women"

You can keep proving that 30 pg/ml of estradiol is in any way comparable to 30000 pg/ml (30 ng/ml) of testosterone )))

 

[fike]

[

The anabolic effect of estrogens on nitrogen metabolism of growing and finishing cattle and sheep - PubMed

Estrogenic compounds are effective in stimulating live weight gains and improving feed efficiency of growing and finishing ruminants. With the proper use of diethylstilbestrol or estradiol, weight gain and feed efficiency are improved approximately 15 and 12 percent, respectively. The...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

"These studies, along with the observation that an intact pituitary gland is necessary for estrogens to increase nitrogen retention in sheep, support the theory that estrogens are anabolic in ruminants because of increased secretion of growth hormone by the anterior pituitary. If follows that the increased secretion of growth hormone results in increased blood glucose which then stimulates secretion of insulin. Both growth hormone and insulin would be stimulatory to protein synthesis. This theory of the mode of action is further supported by the findings that injections of growth hormone closely resemble the effects of diethylstilbestrol on nitrogen retention and blood metabolites in sheep."

​

Testosterone and Progesterone, But Not Estradiol, Stimulate Muscle Protein Synthesis in Postmenopausal Women

Context:. The effect of the female sex steroids, estradiol and progesterone, on muscle protein turnover is unclear. Therefore, it is unknown whether the ch

academic.oup.com

"Testosterone and Progesterone, But Not Estradiol, Stimulate Muscle Protein Synthesis in Postmenopausal Women"

You can keep proving that 30 pg/ml of estradiol is in any way comparable to 30000 pg/ml (30 ng/ml) of testosterone )))

This is all new info to me, so thanks for the info. Since I’ve quit taking the Arimidex I’m kind of hoping some of the estrogen from my wife and two daughters will help bring mine back up some. I love them, but they have been driving me crazy this week. I feel bad for my son because we are pregnant with another girl right now. He was actually kind of pissed about it. Haha

 

[-Maui-]

))) Congratulations!