Cutting/Recomp On First Cycle (Questions, Kind of Weird Case)

[IsoUsername]

I don't plan on taking anything, well I have an actual notepad list of what I'd do, so I guess I have an idea. But this is my question, I've been thinking about it for a long while now.

At 17>19 I lost ~200+ pounds. At the tail end of the cut I am 95% sure (no bloodwork) I had crashed hormones, like low test, lethargy, just everything cutting. And reading what happens to Natty BBers Post show, yeah, I had all of that fucking shit. Even the hyperphagia (gained 28 in 28 days, but haven't gained any since, was eating out of trashcans, that, that was some crazy shit....)

Fast forward to today, 1 year later, I have roughly 20-30 more pounds to drop? I want to shed the last 20-30 pounds for loose skin surgery sometime next year, March or May.
My question is, knowing just how fucked I ended up cutting, wouldn't it be safer and more effective to just, pin gear and only lose 10-15 pounds, and or just recomp? The shutdown from test would be no different from the nuking to my hormones I have done before (took 2-4 months just to feel normal, and I still can't remember what I felt like pre-diet at 300lbs, that was when I felt the best ever), only benefit is (possible) muscle gains, and elevated hormones while dieting. I seem to see you gain ~10pounds on first cycle, despite cutting? Almost like gym noob gains 2.0. I don't have any aspirations to gain anything un-maintainable off PEDs, so it's not like I want to blow up either. When I was 465, I had 185lbs of LBM, so that was all my frame hold anyways... I think I'm 155-165 LBM now??

174cm, 225lb, 25%bf, 2.5 years in the gym, been counting macros/calories since as well, know how to train and yadayada. Only problem is I'm 20....
I have no idea how much loose skin I have, anywhere from 10-25lbs, if it's 25, that actually puts me at 200, 20%.
Oh, Here's what I was writing too.
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43mg ED Test E -300mg (375?) 12weeks
25mg ED var 6-7weeks
250iu hcg mon-wen-fri 12week (14-15?)
Aromisin?

21-35 day clear? <50mg = Can PCT?
250 hcg for 2 more weeks?
28 day start PCT
-
50mg ED Clomid
20mg ED Tamoxifen(Novadex)
4-6/8 weeks
--
t3 25-50mcg??? (why use?)
Sem/Tirz (2.0ok / ???ok)

BloodW: Pre - 4w - ?end of? - ???weeksafterPCT
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Added note, I'd be down from surgery for 3-9 months anyways (multiple surgeries), so I'd most likely lose some gains anyways, however if I did happen to, it would be a better outcome on the surgery for contouring and such. On the other hand, if I waited and used after (if I end up doing it), I'd be doing it on a Bulk, getting my gains back faster and some.

 

[HB_22]

Just my 2 cents after reading your post:

Keep cutting down until you are very lean. As for drug advise I personally would go and do bloodwork first. Helpful to know is your total testosterone, free test, ft3, ft4, TSH. Based on how your bloods come back you can add some test, T4 and/or T3. This will help to keep losing weight. Dont take more than you need, if you decide to go this route. The goal is to replace the hormones that have dropped too low, what you don't want is to push them too high.

So, in short, I would go and do bloodwork this week.

And let go of this recomp idea. Recomp doesn't work great. It's better to keep focusing on your cut and then if you feel like you are lean enough (another 15lbs down or what you are looking for) then do a nicely planned push up. At this point when food is increased you can slowly pull out the T3 and T4 and whatever you were taking during the cut.

 

[grey]

^what he said.

 

[IsoUsername]

Just my 2 cents after reading your post:

Keep cutting down until you are very lean. As for drug advise I personally would go and do bloodwork first. Helpful to know is your total testosterone, free test, ft3, ft4, TSH. Based on how your bloods come back you can add some test, T4 and/or T3. This will help to keep losing weight. Dont take more than you need, if you decide to go this route. The goal is to replace the hormones that have dropped too low, what you don't want is to push them too high.

So, in short, I would go and do bloodwork this week.

And let go of this recomp idea. Recomp doesn't work great. It's better to keep focusing on your cut and then if you feel like you are lean enough (another 15lbs down or what you are looking for) then do a nicely planned push up. At this point when food is increased you can slowly pull out the T3 and T4 and whatever you were taking during the cut.

Edit: I consume pretty low fat (45-60g, and 15-30g on a cut) so my Test is also probably nuked there, I can't simply fit more into my day, I've tried, max I can go is 75, but not possible on a cut from an adherance perspective (150pro / 45f = 1005/1750), , at least for right now. I'm still in a hyper volume food mode.

So I am 100% natural still atm (aside from this semaglutide I got), I was THINKING of buying some t3, and not using test yet. Obviously again with BW I'd need to know, but alas I kinda just wanted it to put me above natural limits so i can eat more, I have to eat 1750 :/, Quite frankly, I'm still fat, can't see my true fatness/leanness, and am annoyed at cutting still. Had to take a long, long break from it, and still binge on occasion. That's probably want to just stop cutting I'm sick of it really.

The goal would primarily be to exceed natural limits if I'm using hormones though no? Aside from obviously an HRT of T or T3.
I have completely in the dark on bloods btw, no clue, asked my dr and he was like oh we'll do it some other time, so I'm just gonna buy my own

Also I agree, recomping is pretty shit. I just figure since I gained mass while cutting when I first started, on PEDs I would be gaining mass while cutting again? My reasoning is this, If I am 165/205, cutting naturally would put me to 155/175, however if I cut on peds, I would end up 175/195? (generous I know)

But again, I always hearto "not waste the first cycle on a cut" but the truth is I am not trying to get huge, and if I wait to bulk, I have to wait 2 years instead of 2 weeks ha ha.

For Bloodwork
I was planning on doing one of the two blood panel screenings

ULTAlab:
BioTE Male Post Pallet
Lipid Pannel and CMP
BioTE Post Thyroid (Male or Female)
174$

Marek Diagnostics:
Total T (LC/MS) (EQ Dialysis)
Estradiol (LC/MS)
Basic Thyroid (TSH/T4/T3 Uptake / Free Thyroxine)
Lipid Panel
CMP
CBC
189 (but I know exactly which tests, and i get more peace of mind)

 

[IsoUsername]

I'm thinking of maintaining on 60f 150p minimum for 2 weeks, then getting bloods. Do you guys think that's a good idea?

 

[HB_22]

I'm thinking of maintaining on 60f 150p minimum for 2 weeks, then getting bloods. Do you guys think that's a good idea?

How about carbs? Metabolic parameters like TSH, T3, T4 will be hugely impacted by fats but also by carbs. Add carbs and keep it in a very minimal caloric plus.

And you don’t need such expensive lab tests for 180$. All you need to do is find a lab and just let them do free test, total test, T3, T4 and TSH. It will be 50 bucks total. In Germany it's around 40€ but I don’t know about your country.

 

[IsoUsername]

How about carbs? Metabolic parameters like TSH, T3, T4 will be hugely impacted by fats but also by carbs. Add carbs and keep it in a very minimal caloric plus.

And you don’t need such expensive lab tests for 180$. All you need to do is find a lab and just let them do free test, total test, T3, T4 and TSH. It will be 50 bucks total. In Germany it's around 40€ but I don’t know about your country.

assuming perfect macros, carbs would then be 340 grams, I maintain ~2500, on a cut I essentially ate 150g of protein and the rest carbs, so like, 125-200?

the thyroid test itself is only 56, the test test is 79, and the lipid/cmp is 39. Marek is like 50, 50, then a bunch of 8's.

I don't think I'm hypothyroid, or low test btw, I just know that caloric restriction causes it and figure if i'm doing it, may as well do it with PEDs. But I also do want to know my levels anyways.. (thats why i'd want a full test)

but you think a 125-250 surplus for 2 weeks into a blood test is fine and dandy or what. Also that would then hinder my fat-loss goals, but eh.

 

[IsoUsername]

Ah shit, sorry to bump this again....

I read that the Test/Estradiol test using ECLIA (standard) is bad? Do I need to shill out the extra $$$$ for the LS/MS?

 

[DECLAN]

If you have money to blow on roids, you will benefit more in finding a reliable coach to Jumpstart your journey. You are young enough to improve before going into this lifestyle.

 

[IsoUsername]

If you have money to blow on roids, you will benefit more in finding a reliable coach to Jumpstart your journey. You are young enough to improve before going into this lifestyle.

The problem isn't necessarily that I don't know what to do. It's that I figured that since I'd be thrashing hormones because of the cut anyways, I see no difference in dropping 15pounds and gaining 5-10ish of muscle and then tanking them for 4-8 weeks. Versus cutting 25, tanking them for 8-12-24 weeks (the cut itself), bulking up 10-15 for 5ish pounds, and then tanking hormones again. But i understand where you guys are coming from.

Either way, I still don't really have an answer on the Bloodwork, probably not the best post to ask, since there is a whole category for it. But I don't know why to us LS/MS vs ECLIA if I'm not on? Or should I just shill the extra $ for LS to know 100% my levels either way.

I want to know them anyways

 

[IsoUsername]

Hey Hey sorry to bump this dumb thread but since I got the bloods back I might as well say something.

Total T is 383 ng/dl, using the Free MS/Dialysis
Estradiol is 17.5 pg/dl, sensitive.
Thyroid is beautiful (i think), TSH 1.420 uIU/mL, T4 6.4 ug/dl, t3 Uptake 32%, Free t4 index 2.0

Fasting Glucose is 97? Hematocrit is 45.2, HDL/LDL is 53/52, Triglycerides are 32, VLDL cholesterol cal is 9.

The rest I don't think are interesting enough to be needed. Also I deeply regret not getting an IGF-1 panel as well now that I am aware of what it does.

 

[shartking]

There's nothing unusual about this at all. Just another out of shape person thinking steroids are magic pills. If this was a good idea, your weight loss doc would have suggested it. What he did suggest was to stop eating so much and prepare for surgery.

 

[IsoUsername]

There's nothing unusual about this at all. Just another out of shape person thinking steroids are magic pills. If this was a good idea, your weight loss doc would have suggested it. What he did suggest was to stop eating so much and prepare for surgery.

Actually he just said come in whenever you're ready cause if you fuck up and get fat again you'll just come back.

Didn't really expect anything to be off, I just got bloodwork to see and if I used anything where my baseline is/was. But I'm suprised my test is so low, despite mentioning I knew it was lmao.

I don't think steroids are magic at all? I was explaining my reasoning for thinking about cycling, which still sounds sound in my mind tbqh, aside from being younger. Cut is going fine though anyways.

 

[DECLAN]

Actually he just said come in whenever you're ready cause if you fuck up and get fat again you'll just come back.

Didn't really expect anything to be off, I just got bloodwork to see and if I used anything where my baseline is/was. But I'm suprised my test is so low, despite mentioning I knew it was lmao.

I don't think steroids are magic at all? I was explaining my reasoning for thinking about cycling, which still sounds sound in my mind tbqh, aside from being younger. Cut is going fine though anyways.

Great mindset, you will gain experience and improve. Just be patient and consistent, by the time you think you're ready to jump into aas, you will be knowledgeable enough and know your body well to reap the benefits at a more optimal rate compared to doing it in a rush.