Daily or EOD test Cyp injections?????

[Jq88]

I actually agree with you forever young... But that's what got me into trouble with the anastrozole dosing lol... Going "by feel."

I get bad estrogen paranoia.

Well... If your strength is up and libido is strong and erectile function good with great mood and energy then yeah who needs labs.

I hope to get there man.

 

[Jq88]

i will never do AI again, with my every day injections i have no problems at all. ... when i took the same weekly dose in once per week injection i have issues

i have done this 1000 times. .. i am completely convinced by my own experience that every day injections of cypionate are the best

FY where do you inject with 1/2 inch slin pin... Quads, delts, and triceps?

 

[foreveryoung]

estrogens go up and down fairly rapidly so chasing blood tests when you are injecting and taking ais is going to drive you crazy anyways and aren't very helpful imho

chasing going by feel with arimidex is a roller coaster ride too.. done that.. it's not good

in my opinion AI are not any long term answer and i don't touch them anymore at all

 

[foreveryoung]

FY where do you inject with 1/2 inch slin pin... Quads, delts, and triceps?

done so many sites in the past but now i just do glutes... longer needle better 1 inch or 1.5.. injection volume is small.. i just try to move my injection site around a bit every time so the same exact spot gets a bit of rest. i have no problems

 

[Jq88]

done so many sites in the past but now i just do glutes... longer needle better 1 inch or 1.5.. injection volume is small.. i just try to move my injection site around a bit every time so the same exact spot gets a bit of rest. i have no problems

Hahaha how do you measure such a small amount of Cypionate into a large needle and syringe???

Is that 200mg/ml?

I would think an insulin syringe is absolutely necessary for daily injections.

 

[Docd187123]

I don't know my peak.

My trough on 60mg twice a week with 250iu hcG twice a week was 512

My trough on 100/100 was 813

I was using anastrozole both times and my e2 levels were in the teens. My sexual function was good but I didn't feel great and my strength was down.

My SHBG is 16

I don't have any labs for the last six months because I have been dosing anasteozole by feel and it has been a roller coaster.

Those are pretty high trough levels. You could try reducing the 100/100 to 75/75 or maybe even lower. E2 levels in the teens could be raised without being symptomatic most likely and reduce or eliminate the AI you were using.

 

[Docd187123]

estrogens go up and down fairly rapidly so chasing blood tests when you are injecting and taking ais is going to drive you crazy anyways and aren't very helpful imho

chasing going by feel with arimidex is a roller coaster ride too.. done that.. it's not good

in my opinion AI are not any long term answer and i don't touch them anymore at all

If you consider 2-7days fairly rapidly.

Hormone kinetics after intramuscular testosteronecypionate.
Nankin HR. Fertil Steril. 1987.
Show full citation
Abstract
There have not been reports analyzing in detail the reproductive hormone changes in hypogonadal men after usual therapeutic injections of testosterone cypionate (TC). In 11 hypogonadal men 200 mg intramuscular TC caused a threefold rise in serum T (peak values, days 2 to 5), a 33% increase in % free T (%FT) (days 2 to 7), and a 4.5-fold rise of absolute FT (peak on days 2 to 3), a 66% increase in % nonsex hormone-binding globulin-bound T (%non-SHBG-T) (peak days 2 to 7), a sixfold increase in absolute non-SHBG-T (peak days 4 to 5),and a threefold rise of estradiol (days 2 to 7). Many of the men achieved androgen concentrations (T, FT, and non-SHBG-T) above the respective normal concentrations between days 2 and 7; then steroid values declined to basal levels by days 13 to 14. Non-SHBG-T showed the largest-fold absolute increase and on day 4 to day 5 averaged three times the mean in normal men. Five men achieved non-SHBG-T values several times the upper limit of our total normal range. Luteinizing hormone became suppressed in men receiving their first intramuscular TC injection and remained suppressed in men receiving chronic TC. Thus, in hypogonadal men, biweekly injections of 200 mg TC result in wide variations in circulating androgen levels, from high to elevated shortly after intramuscular TC declining to basal by days 13 to 14.

PMID
3595893 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

 

[Docd187123]

i will never do AI again, with my every day injections i have no problems at all. ... when i took the same weekly dose in once per week injection i have issues

i have done this 1000 times. .. i am completely convinced by my own experience that every day injections of cypionate are the best

i don't do blood tests, ive been doing this for decades, what matters is how i feel and perform, chasing numbers on a report are pointless

To make sure I have this right:

You are harping about "dangers" or AI use but then in the next post admit to never doing blood tests?

 

[Jq88]

Those are pretty high trough levels. You could try reducing the 100/100 to 75/75 or maybe even lower. E2 levels in the teens could be raised without being symptomatic most likely and reduce or eliminate the AI you were using.

Doc the problem for me personally is I draw a HUGE distinction between "reduce" and "eliminate"

I react strongly to Adex and just don't know when to take it exactly. I always feel like I need it. Except when it crashes me.

 

[Docd187123]

Doc the problem for me personally is I draw a HUGE distinction between "reduce" and "eliminate"

I react strongly to Adex and just don't know when to take it exactly. I always feel like I need it. Except when it crashes me.

Are you on doctor supervised TRT or self administering it?

I get your distinction. You can continue to adjust the TT dose down and that might be enough to keep your TT levels in range and negate the need for an AI.

Have you tried any of your previous protocols without an AI? I mean your E2 could stand to go up some and your still be well within reference ranges. Were you ever symptomatic from high E2, and if so, what E2 levels did symptoms begin to appear?

 

[Jq88]

Thanks doc.

I'm prescribed by my endo and I love him but let's just say I have to self-administer since his protocols don't make any sense.

Anyway to answer your question... The longest I have went without Anastrozole in the last 18 months is 12 days... I was on T+HCG+AI... Then high dose T... Then lower dose... I've been everywhere... But everytime I believe estrogen is rearing its ugly head I would take a quarter of a tab and that would ease my anxiety.

So to answer your question... I DONT HAVE ANY LABS WITHOUT AN AI INDICATING THAT I NEED AN AI IN THE FIRST PLACE.

The Internet is good and bad. Once someone said control Adex dosing by morning wood I was off and running dosing "by feel" and this is how it's been for a while. Everytime my sexual function goes I blame estrogen and pop a quarter of an Adex. From the outside I look perfectly fine... But mentally and emotionally I'm driving myself insane.

I guess cold turkey and a lower dose protocol is the way to go.

I just have to stick with something.

Like I said 60/60 only takes me to 512... And that was with HCG.

140mg/wk seems like a decent starting point...

But do I need an AI? Lol

 

[Docd187123]

Thanks doc.

I'm prescribed by my endo and I love him but let's just say I have to self-administer since his protocols don't make any sense.

Anyway to answer your question... The longest I have went without Anastrozole in the last 18 months is 12 days... I was on T+HCG+AI... Then high dose T... Then lower dose... I've been everywhere... But everytime I believe estrogen is rearing its ugly head I would take a quarter of a tab and that would ease my anxiety.

So to answer your question... I DONT HAVE ANY LABS WITHOUT AN AI INDICATING THAT I NEED AN AI IN THE FIRST PLACE.

The Internet is good and bad. Once someone said control Adex dosing by morning wood I was off and running dosing "by feel" and this is how it's been for a while. Everytime my sexual function goes I blame estrogen and pop a quarter of an Adex. From the outside I look perfectly fine... But mentally and emotionally I'm driving myself insane.

I guess cold turkey and a lower dose protocol is the way to go.

I just have to stick with something.

Like I said 60/60 only takes me to 512... And that was with HCG.

140mg/wk seems like a decent starting point...

But do I need an AI? Lol

With a ~2day half life and 5 half lives needed without drug administration for it to be completely cleared from your body, that means your need at least 10days for the adex to leave then whatever length of time it takes for your body's natural aromatization to return to "normal". 12days wouldn't be enough.

It's quite possible you don't need an AI at all from what you're saying! How much AI are you taking currently?

Morning wood is a HORRIBLE way to determine AI needs but I think you see that now.

Start low and titrate up as needed. Try 50mg twice a week for a good 6-8wks with no AI and pull labs. Then go from there would be my opinion

 

[Jq88]

With a ~2day half life and 5 half lives needed without drug administration for it to be completely cleared from your body, that means your need at least 10days for the adex to leave then whatever length of time it takes for your body's natural aromatization to return to "normal". 12days wouldn't be enough.

It's quite possible you don't need an AI at all from what you're saying! How much AI are you taking currently?

Morning wood is a HORRIBLE way to determine AI needs but I think you see that now.

Start low and titrate up as needed. Try 50mg twice a week for a good 6-8wks with no AI and pull labs. Then go from there would be my opinion

I've been taking .25mg everytime I think my estrogen gets too high.

I've had no set protocol.

I was actually running 50mg e3d for two weeks or so but crashed bad on my trough day and got impulsive and started thinking I needed more frequent Injections because I am very low shbg.

Your advice is solid and standard.

It seems 50/50 or 60/60 is a good place to start.

50/50 would probably put me in the 300's on a trough day.

But yeah can always work my way up I guess.

Anyway I really appreciate your time man.

 

[Jq88]

So you see no benefit to more frequent injections like 40mg every other day or something?

 

[ironbone]

I do 200mg test cyp once a week. .25 arimidex e3d.

Never had any issues.

I just can't understand why you guys are running HCG. Let the nuts go if your on trt. Not sure of your age but if you want to have kids just come off and use HCG then.

The problem I had was my E2 was all over the place with HCG. Very unpredictable. With test cyp it's very predictable.

Just my experience.

 

[Docd187123]

So you see no benefit to more frequent injections like 40mg every other day or something?

Sure there maybe some benefit but at what cost? If the cost/benefit analysis is worth it to you...it's worth it to you. I pin my cruise doses and blast doses once per week. I don't like taking the time to inject multiple times a week personally. My sister is diabetic and between glucose testing, multiple daily insulin injection in the past, and now an insulin pump she hates getting pricked anymore than she has to. You might not mind it now but what about 10yrs from now? That's 3650 injections when you could've only done 1040 (Ssuming pinning twice a week).

 

[Jq88]

I do 200mg test cyp once a week. .25 arimidex e3d.

Never had any issues.

I just can't understand why you guys are running HCG. Let the nuts go if your on trt. Not sure of your age but if you want to have kids just come off and use HCG then.

The problem I had was my E2 was all over the place with HCG. Very unpredictable. With test cyp it's very predictable.

Just my experience.

I agree with you about hcG.

If I took 200mg/wk in one shot my estrogen spike would be much higher on day 2 then day 5 so the linear Adex dosing wouldn't work.

Low SHBG guys are very sensitive to estrogen it gets trickier.

 

[Nutpuncher]

I agree with you about hcG.

If I took 200mg/wk in one shot my estrogen spike would be much higher on day 2 then day 5 so the linear Adex dosing wouldn't work.

Low SHBG guys are very sensitive to estrogen it gets trickier.

How did you know that your e2 spiked much higher on day 2 then day 5.

 

[Jq88]

Sure there maybe some benefit but at what cost? If the cost/benefit analysis is worth it to you...it's worth it to you. I pin my cruise doses and blast doses once per week. I don't like taking the time to inject multiple times a week personally. My sister is diabetic and between glucose testing, multiple daily insulin injection in the past, and now an insulin pump she hates getting pricked anymore than she has to. You might not mind it now but what about 10yrs from now? That's 3650 injections when you could've only done 1040 (Ssuming pinning twice a week).

Eod might be worth it to keep levels more stable and lower aromitization.

I don't know man.

I'm lost and feel like I have a decision to make every morning.

 

[Jq88]

How did you know that your e2 spiked much higher on day 2 then day 5.

Testosterone Cyp peaks at about 36 hours.