Didn't you say it spiked due to HcG? I was just trying to understand how you noticed e2 spiked more on day 2 vs day 5.
MESO-Rx
Anabolic Steroids
Daily or EOD test Cyp injections?????
- Thread starter flyguy
- Start date
Didn't you say it spiked due to HcG? I was just trying to understand how you noticed e2 spiked more on day 2 vs day 5.
Most, and by that I mean the vast majority, of TRT patients are perfectly happy with once every two weeks dosing, once a week dosing, or twice a week dosing. That should be your starting point.
If you turn out to be an outlier to that then you can always increase the dosing frequency and lower the amount of each dose but that's IF you turn out to be an outlier. You're not even sure you need an AI at the dose you're currently taking let alone a lower dose that could still relieve your symptoms of hypogonadism.
My opinion again is to start with the basics and adjust from there.
He said IF.
Thanks for clarifying.
Look at the study I posted back on page 2 or 3 I think. It talks about the rate of aromatization from test cyp injections.
foreveryoung
New Member
what you posted tells us nothing, I need to see more than the abstract to be sure, but unless they were taking blood 3 or 4 times per day every day in this study it is not showing what I was referring to which is that e2 levels fluctuate morning to night and day to day when one is injecting testosterone
foreveryoung
New Member
anyways, I know what works for me, I have stuck needles in myself 1000's of times, experimented the fuck out of everything I could think of experimenting with
I didn't just come to this point on a whim, I have tried the less frequent injections, I have experimented a ton with AI's, hcg, everything you could think of
I know for a fact I do my best with no arimidex, and with injecting test cypionate in small dose every day, I have tried going back a number of times and this is where I always end up
maybe someone else will find a different solution for themself, but I know I wish 25 years ago I knew what I know now
I didn't just come to this point on a whim, I have tried the less frequent injections, I have experimented a ton with AI's, hcg, everything you could think of
I know for a fact I do my best with no arimidex, and with injecting test cypionate in small dose every day, I have tried going back a number of times and this is where I always end up
maybe someone else will find a different solution for themself, but I know I wish 25 years ago I knew what I know now
foreveryoung
New Member
interesting charts thanks for posting
My TRT recently changed my protocol from test cyp 100mg a week to test cyp 80%/prop 20% 60mg twice a week. I haven't started yet as currently blasting. Got another week left then I will mix my own but use same ratio and save the cute little vials.
I'd pin daily using this mixture.
I'd pin daily using this mixture.
foreveryoung
New Member
I didn't say anything about a large syringe, I use a 1 cc syringe, 250mg/ml cypionate I measure as close as possible to get a 1/10th of a cc injection, and use either a 1 inch or 1.5 inch 25 gauge needle
The effect of diurnal variation on clinical measurement of serum testosterone and other sex hormone levels in men.
Brambilla DJ, et al. J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 2009.
Show full citation
Abstract
CONTEXT: Although diurnal variation of testosterone and other hormones in men has been well documented, the effect of this variation on sampling during typical clinic hours has not been examined.
OBJECTIVE: Our objective was to examine temporal variation in serum testosterone and five other hormones in men over normal clinic hours.
DESIGN: Blood samples were collected at six separate visits, three morning visits 1-3 d apart and three afternoon visits 1-3 d apart.
SETTING AND PARTICIPANTS: In Boston, MA, 66 men participated, 30-80 yr of age, randomly selected from the Boston Area Community Health Survey who completed at least five visits.
MAIN OUTCOME MEASURES: The age-specific ratio of hormone level at times ranging from 0801-1600 h to hormone level at 0800 h was calculated. Ratios were calculated from parameter estimates obtained from cosinor models.
RESULTS: In men 30-40 yr old, testosterone levels were 20-25% lower at 1600 h than at 0800 h. The difference declined with age, with a 10% difference at 70 yr. 17 men with at least one of three measurements less than 300 ng/dl (10.4 nmol/liter) after 1200 h had normal testosterone levels at all three visits before 1200 h (five of eight men 30-47 yr old, four of nine men 66-80 yr old). Much lower levels of diurnal variation were found for dihydrotestosterone, SHBG, LH, FSH, and estradiol at all ages.
CONCLUSIONS: Our results support the recommendation of restricting testosterone measurements to morning hours in both young and older men. Limited diurnal variation in other hormones indicates that sampling through the day is appropriate.
But you admittedly have no blood work to verify anything. There's no objectivity to your assessment, only subjectivity.
How many ppl cruise on what you call doping dosages or even higher, ie 300mg or more of test a week, and feel good? Probably every single one of them but we both know it's not the best route.
I Declare WAR!
New Member
I do my injections subcutaneously every other day with a 29g insulin syringe. I use testosterone enanthate (~0.125mL), along with 250IU hCG in the same syringe.
If I inject in the evening I have good night-time wood and wake up with a boner on the first morning. Second night is not reliably so. It's as simple as that. You feel the testosterone that first day, and the second day you feel less. Irrespective of the ester, more frequent injections give more natural results.
I don't inject every day because it's more of a hassle than what it's worth for me.
Testosterone propionate done this way gives an even better effect.
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foreveryoung
New Member
well, there is objectivity, if I have sex with my wife successfully every day is a measurable object, headaches or not having headaches, getting colds or flu often vs never, being able to stick with a protocol and not see problems crop up a few months down the path, measurable side effects like acne, insomnia, sweating, etc are objectively measurable, etc etc.... I am pretty in tune with my body, and have experienced being in a bad state of hormones many times, AI's are good at creating problems especially after awhile, it is much better to simplify and get test doses in a range where adding the extra drug is not done
you mentioned a high dose protocol and the user feeling good, I think if they stick with the high dose for a while the objectively determinable problems will start to appear
I agree that subjective measures by guys without enough experience is going to be risky, you see it often where they are all excited by a protocol saying it is working great then in a month or two all stressed out again... the goal is to find something that works that has you feeling healthy and actually being healthy a year or two down the road with the protocol.... if you are getting colds and flus every year that is a good signal that something could be better with how you are taking care of yourself for one thing
foreveryoung
New Member
keeping testosterone dose down is important too in the long term, if the dose gets even a little too high there will be a price to pay after awhile... 250mg a week is too much for me and I notice problems quickly at that... so getting test at an appropriate level for your body and minimizing fluctuations seem to be my formula for longer term feeling good, a little too high is too high
I Declare WAR!
New Member
Yet you still use tren and mast foreveryoung. That goes against what you're preaching.
Not hating. I do the same... you can't always be a saint. We know what's best for us, but we don't always do what's best.
Not hating. I do the same... you can't always be a saint. We know what's best for us, but we don't always do what's best.
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foreveryoung
New Member
who is to say that tren in low doses is unhealthy? I haven't seen any studies
I am trying to stay on top of paying attention to how I am feeling, I still don't get sick with colds and flu's, when in the past I would get every cold or flu that was around, 3 or 4 times a year... I have gone at least a couple years now without getting sick with a cold or flu, and there have been lots where everyone I know around me have gotten them, that tells me my immune system is in tune at least, and I know it is related to hormones because in the past I would always get a cold when I went off,etc
So you are cycling?
[Rats] 17beta-Trenbolone, An Anabolic-Androgenic Steroid As Well As An Environmental Hormone, Contributes To Neurodegeneration
Highlights
· The widely used anabolic–androgenic steroid 17β-trenbolone has neurotoxicity.
· 17β-trenbolone crosses the blood brain barrier and placental barrier.
· Rat has high level of 17β-trenbolone in hippocampus after intramuscular injection.
· 17β-trenbolone induces apoptosis of primary hippocampal neurons.
· 17β-trenbolone affects Alzheimer's disease-related proteins Aβ42 and presenilin-1.
Ma F, Liu D. 17beta-trenbolone, an anabolic-androgenic steroid as well as an environmental hormone, contributes to neurodegeneration. Toxicol Appl Pharmacol.17β-trenbolone, an anabolic–androgenic steroid as well as an environmental hormone, contributes to neurodegeneration
Both genetic and environmental factors contribute to neurodegenerative disorders. In a large number of neurodegenerative diseases (for example, Alzheimer's disease (AD)), patients do not carry the mutant genes. Other risk factors, for example the environmental factors, should be evaluated.
17beta-trenbolone is a kind of environmental hormone as well as an anabolic-androgenic steroid. 17beta-trenbolone is used as a growth promoter for livestock in the USA. Also, a large portion of recreational exercisers inject 17beta-trenbolone in large doses and for very long time to increase muscle and strength. 17beta-trenbolone is stable in the environment after being excreted.
In the present study, 17beta-trenbolone was administered to adult and pregnant rats and the primary hippocampal neurons. 17beta-trenbolone's distribution and its effects on serum hormone levels and Abeta42 accumulation in vivo and its effects on AD related parameters in vitro were assessed.
17beta-trenbolone accumulated in adult rat brain, especially in hippocampus, and in the fetus brain. It altered Abeta42 accumulation. 17beta-trenbolone induced apoptosis of primary hippocampal neurons in vitro and resisted neuroprotective function oftestosterone.
Presenilin-1 protein expression was down-regulated while beta-amyloid peptide 42 (Abeta42) production and caspase-3 activities were increased. Both androgen and estrogen receptors mediated the processes. 17beta-trenbolone played critical roles in neurodegeneration.
Exercisers who inject large doses of trenbolone and common people who are exposed to 17beta-trenbolone by various ways are all influenced chronically and continually. Identification of such environmental risk factors will help us take early prevention measure to slow down onset of neurodegenerative disorders.
Highlights
· The widely used anabolic–androgenic steroid 17β-trenbolone has neurotoxicity.
· 17β-trenbolone crosses the blood brain barrier and placental barrier.
· Rat has high level of 17β-trenbolone in hippocampus after intramuscular injection.
· 17β-trenbolone induces apoptosis of primary hippocampal neurons.
· 17β-trenbolone affects Alzheimer's disease-related proteins Aβ42 and presenilin-1.
Ma F, Liu D. 17beta-trenbolone, an anabolic-androgenic steroid as well as an environmental hormone, contributes to neurodegeneration. Toxicol Appl Pharmacol.17β-trenbolone, an anabolic–androgenic steroid as well as an environmental hormone, contributes to neurodegeneration
Both genetic and environmental factors contribute to neurodegenerative disorders. In a large number of neurodegenerative diseases (for example, Alzheimer's disease (AD)), patients do not carry the mutant genes. Other risk factors, for example the environmental factors, should be evaluated.
17beta-trenbolone is a kind of environmental hormone as well as an anabolic-androgenic steroid. 17beta-trenbolone is used as a growth promoter for livestock in the USA. Also, a large portion of recreational exercisers inject 17beta-trenbolone in large doses and for very long time to increase muscle and strength. 17beta-trenbolone is stable in the environment after being excreted.
In the present study, 17beta-trenbolone was administered to adult and pregnant rats and the primary hippocampal neurons. 17beta-trenbolone's distribution and its effects on serum hormone levels and Abeta42 accumulation in vivo and its effects on AD related parameters in vitro were assessed.
17beta-trenbolone accumulated in adult rat brain, especially in hippocampus, and in the fetus brain. It altered Abeta42 accumulation. 17beta-trenbolone induced apoptosis of primary hippocampal neurons in vitro and resisted neuroprotective function oftestosterone.
Presenilin-1 protein expression was down-regulated while beta-amyloid peptide 42 (Abeta42) production and caspase-3 activities were increased. Both androgen and estrogen receptors mediated the processes. 17beta-trenbolone played critical roles in neurodegeneration.
Exercisers who inject large doses of trenbolone and common people who are exposed to 17beta-trenbolone by various ways are all influenced chronically and continually. Identification of such environmental risk factors will help us take early prevention measure to slow down onset of neurodegenerative disorders.
There actually was a study showing tren in low doses presented less health complications than supraphysiological doses of testosterone.
You say "if the dose gets even a little too high there will be a price to pay after a while" in regards to testosterone use. You're worried about a "little too high" test dose but not at all about a chronic tren dose for a drug that has never been approved for humans, ever, in any country or market?
You are all over the map with what you justify and what you demonize. You call a 300mg dose of test blood doping in one thread and in another try and justify a low dose of tren as being TRT....
You say AI's, HCG, PT141, Melatonin II are the devil basically and you'll NEVER use them but you CRUISE on a low dose of test, tren, and mast?
You talk about health and all these SUBJECTIVE health markers you feel but you have not one lick of blood work to actually know what's going on inside of your own body.
You say low dose daily injections negated the need for an AI for you but you have no blood work to show where your estradiol levels are bc you don't believe in chasing numbers.
You claim it's worthless to test estradiol bc of large daily fluctuations in E2 levels yet have either no response, or a rudimentary critique, of two studies that showed otherwise.
You have the gall to try and sway others to follow suit as you do and the only proof you can conjure up that what you're doing is remotely healthy is that you don't get sick anymore, feel good, and successfully have sex with your wife.
When I Declare War posted highlighting your hypocrisy concerning tren and health, your response was "who is to say that tren in low doses is unhealthy. I haven't seen any studies". For one, you have seen a study. It was posted by Dr. Scally and you admitted to the fact the material was beyond your understanding. Second, to repeat myself, you have absolutely nothing to show that it is healthy. Third, that is still argumentum ad ignorantiam "abscence of proof is not proof of abscence.
I like many of your posts but enough is enough man. Come to your senses and realize what you're doing and what you're saying is nothing more than unfounded and unsubstantiated beliefs that are under a SEVERE confirmation bias.
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