Determining cruise and cutting dosages

[mattgray]

The way I understood, deciding a stack for bulking is pretty straightforward: in a titrating upwards fashion, start with test only, increasing the dosages only once strength/weight have plateaued for some time, even with increased calories. Once sides start to manifest (like E2 for test), add a different compound like primo/deca/EQ/... to increase anabolism, rinse and repeat.

I however wanted to ask how you determine your dosages during a cut or cruise? I feel like the general consensus of lowest possible dosage to achieve your goal still remains which in both of these cases is just to maintain muscle mass. But from the way I understood, maintaining muscle mass is generally significantly easier than building new muscle. And thus I was wondering what the general ratio was between dosages in a bulk/offseason v.s. in a cut/cruise and how to know when a dosage can be lower, or should be increased?

I also imagine there is a significant difference in dosages when cutting between say 20% -> 10% bf (during which it is probably significantly easier to maintain muscle mass) as compared to an actual comp prep e.g. 10% -> 4% bf which would be way more catabolic.

Any advice or experiences would be much appreciated!

 

[thejumpingsheep]

Your answer is a moving target. It depends on your stats, goals, and how your body reacts to whatever you are doing. No one can give you a clear answer.

Cruise by most peoples definitions seems to be a minimum dose to "feel" good without damaging one self. Its not always about keeping muscle and frankly, with some of the bigger guys doing grams a weeks, there is no chance they can keep all the gains on cruise but they do it to heal.

Others dont cruise but rather go on TRT and they just try to keep their T levels within high normal range. Still others might cruise at TRT plus another compound as a kicker like a little Deca for joints, or Primo for E2 control.

So I guess the answer is, figure out what you are comfortable with in terms of damage control and that will be the line you dont cross.

Are you ok with E2 at 40 or 50 or 60? Some people are ok with that so they might take more during cruise. Are you ok with higher LDL and lower HDL? By how much? What does your BP look like and are you ok with it? Do you have hair loss at a certain dosage? Any other sides?

In the end the cruise is meant to let your body recover whatever that means to you.

 

[Slowww]

Blast off season to cruise—around 25% of total gear (more or less) test only. Let’s say you do 1.25-1.5g max in off season. Cruise go down to 300 test approximately. Depending on if you will compete and body weight, this might change because you may need more to maintain just based on high degree of development. Some people may need less— it’s just an example.

Personally when I begin I cut after a maintenance phase at peak heaviest body weight of at least 4 weeks, i will return to a lower cruise dosage for at least 4 weeks (remove auxiliary compounds outside of test), then slowly add in compounds and cardio, while reducing food. Finally fat burners are added as late as possible. Instead of adding test, masteron is added at 100mg intervals, and tren at 50-100mg intervals for thr week. As the cut progresses i will also remove testosterone and AI and add more masteron, to dry out without using diuretics. Cruise will also come after cut to let the liver values return to normal during the rebound.


I don’t do strict trt i think my weight now might be too high for a natural range of testosterone and my blood assays do not merit it. If my blood values, bio markers etc were poor then I would need to and it would be non-negotiable.

E2 is contingent on phase and test value of blood work. My test on 300mg per week is outside the reference range, so I don’t care if e2 is 60. This value also doesn’t give me gyno, my gyno is prolactin based so it doesn’t matter. If I was doing real trt or i am on a cut obviously I want it to match or even be low to remove water and assess the physique honestly without needing to be stage ready.

Blood pressure I want in the optimal or healthy range year round. Right now I am on 1.2g gear (test Eq ment) and blood pressure is fine. Dont care if it is peak blast or trt. Your heart doesn’t care either, cardiovascular disease and kidney disease dont care, has to be in range— non negotiable.

Cruise cut or off season diet, training and cardio should all be ON! no excuse or laziness. Every phase it’s important to growth and development as a body builder

 

[mattgray]

@Slowww so if I understand correctly, you do your offseason, with higher dosages (e.g. 1.2g of gear), then you enter a maintenance phase (I assume you decrease the dosages here since you're simply trying to maintain muscle?). Do you do this maintenance phase to age/mature the newly built muscle? I've read the longer you hold on to the muscle, the easier it is to keep and vice versa, that you lose fresh/new muscle easier. And then for the cut, you slowly titrate up again while reducing food?

So summing it all up:
1. Do you decrease dosages (e.g. 1/4th) during your maintenance phase compared to bulking/offseason?
2. Do you do this 4 week maintenance phase to decrease amount of muscle lost? Or is this maintenance phase for health reasons? What is your goal here?
3. What is your cue to increase dosages while cutting? Do you do this if you start to lose strength/ weight on lifts starts going down?
4. Do you generally live by: "taking as little gear as possible to achieve x goal" or "taking as much gear as possible while keeping x blood metrics/ health in check"?

 

[Slowww]

@Slowww Do you do this maintenance phase to age/mature the newly built muscle?

Yes this is basically correct. If you want to keep it going into a cut, it is easier if you hold onto it for some time. I go down to cruise doses after maintenance phase, since it’s all new tissue and not well established.

And then for the cut, you slowly titrate up again while reducing food?

This is correct, but with different compounds

So summing it all up:
1. Do you decrease dosages (e.g. 1/4th) during your maintenance phase compared to bulking/offseason?

No

2. Do you do this 4 week maintenance phase to decrease amount of muscle lost? Or is this maintenance phase for health reasons? What is your goal here?

To decrease muscle lost. Not for health, cruise after will be for some health.

3. What is your cue to increase dosages while cutting? Do you do this if you start to lose strength/ weight on lifts starts going down?

Yes losing strength or training quality, or for aesthetic purposes as fat goes down and we can see the effect of a new addition. For example at above 10% body fat maybe you can’t really see thr hardening effect of tren, so why use it for a look that it won’t give.

4. Do you generally live by: "taking as little gear as possible to achieve x goal" or "taking as much gear as possible while keeping x blood metrics/ health in check"?

For this one i think both might be the jonest answer— just enough gear to keep progressing. But some points will be more aggressive to ensure progress so long as it doesn’t affect those values.

Could I make slower progress with less gear, yes almost certainly. If I took 5iu hGH instead of 10 would I still make progress. 100%. If I could take 15 and not see any damage would I do it? No, because I’m totally satisfied how my current progression is. So really I don’t exactly fit into either of those models of use.
For example you can argue that out of competition context you do not need tren, clen etc. and that would be a valid point, but I will also utilize things like that. Always should keep health and blood metrics in check, but during some points sure— liver values might get out of normal range with addition of trenbolone.

This is just my 2cents obviously everybody is entitled to deciding how they want to do things, and judging whether the approach is valid or excessive

 

[Zc7219]

@Slowww for someone not competing, do you recommend cutting on cycle or during a cruise period?

 

[mattgray]

@Slowww for someone not competing, do you recommend cutting on cycle or during a cruise period?

I was wondering the same thing, if you stay above 10% bf during your cut, I imagine the nitrogen balance is far more favourable, meaning you should be able to get away with less compounds, and I’ve heard members reporting 300mg of just Test to be enough to maintain mass. Does this translate into a cut as long as you keep it mild and stay above 10% bf?

 

[Slowww]

@Slowww for someone not competing, do you recommend cutting on cycle or during a cruise period?

I think it really depends on your goals, do you want to look your best when you’re lean and really push the cut hard, or do you want to grow more?

Not everybody is the same, right. Some guys want/need to look good in a photo shoot or some event or just get in the best shape and dont want to get bigger, so ok— no problem! take the cycle in a cut. Some want to be big and strong as fast possible and in that case do it for the bulk. Just have to pick and take down time off

 

[Slowww]

I was wondering the same thing, if you stay above 10% bf during your cut, I imagine the nitrogen balance is far more favourable, meaning you should be able to get away with less compounds, and I’ve heard members reporting 300mg of just Test to be enough to maintain mass. Does this translate into a cut as long as you keep it mild and stay above 10% bf?

Over 10% for sure do not need to be aggressive. Personally I haven’t been using AAS besides test and masteron above 10% during weight loss phases. After that ok bring out a bit of clen, and so on if the fat loss is plateauing.

 

[Zc7219]

I think it really depends on your goals, do you want to look your best when you’re lean and really push the cut hard, or do you want to grow more?

Not everybody is the same, right. Some guys want/need to look good in a photo shoot or some event or just get in the best shape and dont want to get bigger, so ok— no problem! take the cycle in a cut. Some want to be big and strong as fast possible and in that case do it for the bulk. Just have to pick and take down time off

I let myself go the last year. I’m around 15-16%. Wanted to get down to 9-10. Using 350 test/reta

 

[Slowww]

I let myself go the last year. I’m around 15-16%. Wanted to get down to 9-10. Using 350 test/reta

I think that is totally fine, if you’re not super big. Just take it slow, make sure you feed your body as much as you can while losing the weight