Diverse stacks- do you like them? Or prefer to keep it simple? Let’s talk trends in stack building and what works for you

[bananafeet]

I never said that all pros do that, just that I've known many who do.

I would infact stress on the fact that what the pros do is irrelevant. The reason I follow the rapid change in compounds, is because it works excellently well for me. If it didn't, such a protocol would hold no importance to me, regardless if every pro followed it.

And that is what you have to find out for yourself- what works for you.

All the best.

Sorry man I didn't explain myself properly and came off rude. My point was this video you shared talks about abusing insulin and HGH to grow with a very lean diet.

My point was Crossland who got incredibly large got there through heavy training and 3 compounds.

He said insulin made him big and pumped but was a temporary effect.

He said tren was a waste of time and he shouldn't have bothered with it.

I think his experience is uselfull and makes sense....

 

[bananafeet]

wait is he the guy with the shot kidneys on its just bodybuilding?
holy shit he was big

still, the stuff proven by pros is that GH rules, Test EQ and 19-nors are useful, and anadrol is also useful.
Tren is good for those Qatar camps where they just push food to the max, because otherwise its a bit tough to grow on high dose tren. It is a bit limited in usefulness, but under the right circumstances I would argue it can be used as a wonderful offseason drug

It's hard to find photos of him but he genuinely was ridiculously big.... I was surprised

 

[Echo111ohce]

Test, eq, mast have always treated me well. If I run tren, I don’t do it long because I start feeling that monster energy drink guy vibe.

 

[BabaJagga]

It's hard to find photos of him but he genuinely was ridiculously big.... I was surprised

i think he was simillar weight like worlds biggest strongmen.

 

[NightBeast666]

wait is he the guy with the shot kidneys on its just bodybuilding?
holy shit he was big

still, the stuff proven by pros is that GH rules, Test EQ and 19-nors are useful, and anadrol is also useful.
Tren is good for those Qatar camps where they just push food to the max, because otherwise its a bit tough to grow on high dose tren. It is a bit limited in usefulness, but under the right circumstances I would argue it can be used as a wonderful offseason drug

Sorry man I didn't explain myself properly and came off rude. My point was this video you shared talks about abusing insulin and HGH to grow with a very lean diet.

My point was Crossland who got incredibly large got there through heavy training and 3 compounds.

He said insulin made him big and pumped but was a temporary effect.

He said tren was a waste of time and he shouldn't have bothered with it.

I think his experience is uselfull and makes sense....

Hey, it's alright. I never took your reply as anything rude. Sorry if my reply came as such.

I just wanted to make it clear that there's no one single way to get huge, even though some commonalities remain in every stack design that ends up working for people.

Yes, Dave's experiences are valid. And anyone who follows him (provided their diet, training, nutrition and rest is optimal), will get good results from implementing the stack that he run to get huge.

For me, the changing of compounds, even without high dose GH and slin really played a big role in taking me out of a year long plateau, where I couldn't simply push beyond.

 

[Mfras]

i think he was simillar weight like worlds biggest strongmen.

After watching his podcasts for a while I finally went and paid for a streaming copy of his ‘under construction’ movie. He hit 400lbs at probably mid 20s% bodyfat at his peak but also had bad pec tear and never chased a cut, plus I didn’t watch it but Under Construction II is apparently super sad and basically documents a series of bad decisions trying to repeat his bulk but ending up almost dying.

Despite his stupid decisions in the past he seems like a smart guy and pivoted his life toward coaching and helping others to not make the mistakes he did, plus running a UK blood work lab with a focus on enhanced athletes. I don’t think he’s always right but he is a humble and comedically curmudgeonly dude who turned his life toward making a positive impact on the world- I’m a fan for that reason.

 

[Jaxino]

Howdy

TLDR: moderate diverse stacks vs ‘keep it simple’ - harm reduction and benefit maximization- what do you like and why?

Did some searching, didn’t find any juicy discussion. Of course everyone has different goals, tolerances, & responses to different compounds. I am interested in sparking a discussion and hearing opinions, history from your perspective if you’ve been around the block a few times, and what works for you- not specifically asking a question with a black & white answer. I know what I like but I’m curious how this topic changes with trends in bodybuilding and the trickle down to gym bros.

Of course the enhanced big risk taking size monsters are often starting with 1000+ test lots of primo or eq, then one or two more compounds. They are probably outside the scope of my intended topic here- I’m not so interested in talking about diversifying a stack because of diminishing returns of each compound at high dose.

I’ll start the discussion with my ideas and practice- hopefully I’ll get to hear yours!

For myself I really like the ‘keep it simple’ philosophy- anywhere from test only cruise to test & ai blasts work great, or something like test and a second compound because I want the specific effect and tolerate it well, like for example lower test and whatever amount of deca I need for a nice long bulk. Simple. My health/trt cruise phases are like this- I drop everything but some test.

But the more experience I got into experimenting with different compounds the more attractive it got to sprinkle in a little of this, a little of that into high cruise phases and blasts. It turns out that for me a little mast is like chocolate and peanut butter with almost anything- great mood lively bedroom. I found myself trying and enjoying low dose deca for smoother joints without trying to leverage strength out of it. It’s all very mild dosing but also easy to start wading into polypharmacy.

Lots of folks would rather dial in primo or eq as their AI and get some more anabolism out of controlling e2. Then there’s different tools for different jobs- examples would be Nand for wet bulk or tren for cutting or dry bulk, so many strategies that work for different people and different effects of different compounds, each with it’s own sides and risks. And some people find thresholds where benefits are there but sides are very minimal for a bunch of compounds.

Do you like to use a more diverse stack because the effects are complimentary? Or because the total anabolism gets boosted up with less risk of sides from each one? Do you have a few favorite compounds to achieve mass or a certain look but always also use mast or primo as well? Or do you keep it simple? Have you been at this long enough to see knowledge and trends change for better or worse over the years?

There's nothing to talk about.

Use as much HGH as you can afford
(Learn to add insulin)
Use Test
Use Primo/EQ

Simple as fuck.

If you are not sure then start listening to Justin Harris that built a ton of open guys, you can't go wrong.

 

[Mfras]

There's nothing to talk about.

Use as much HGH as you can afford
(Learn to add insulin)
Use Test
Use Primo/EQ

Simple as fuck.

If you are not sure then start listening to Justin Harris that built a ton of open guys, you can't go wrong.

Your approach is common and has merit. I’m not rich but I can afford to do 20iu GH a day with generic pricing- not a sustainable dose unless I want lvh, ogre face, and to keep buying bigger shoes. I’m pretty tolerant of GH as far as not getting uncomfortable sides, and liberal with my dose which has been 5-8iu for months, but my plan is something like 8 on blast and whatever keeps my z-score under 3 for long term use (bloodwork scheduled for soon!)

Putting safety issues with insulin aside- I’m sure I could figure out a safe dose and method- I’m not an open class bodybuilder and already 210 fat free mass, currently 14% at 246lbs cutting to 10-11% at 237ish- I want to still have knees deep into my 50s & 60s so 250 with abs is kind of my weight limit- don’t need to get there really ever and certainly not in like 18 months or something.

And Primo is weak and expensive, EQ is a slow builder and known to raise HCT. Both are poor choices for me when I can just use aromasin on blast and no AI on trt.

Test is king and part of every cruise and blast in different amounts.

We’re all different and your solutions are not conceptually aligned with my goals or methods, and not universal in their appeal.

So there sure is stuff to talk about! Which doesn’t discount your methods at all and they work for plenty of folks from pros to bros.

 

[Billbo98]

Your approach is common and has merit. I’m not rich but I can afford to do 20iu GH a day with generic pricing- not a sustainable dose unless I want lvh, ogre face, and to keep buying bigger shoes. I’m pretty tolerant of GH as far as not getting uncomfortable sides, and liberal with my dose which has been 5-8iu for months, but my plan is something like 8 on blast and whatever keeps my z-score under 3 for long term use (bloodwork scheduled for soon!)

Putting safety issues with insulin aside- I’m sure I could figure out a safe dose and method- I’m not an open class bodybuilder and already 210 fat free mass, currently 14% at 246lbs cutting to 10-11% at 237ish- I want to still have knees deep into my 50s & 60s so 250 with abs is kind of my weight limit- don’t need to get there really ever and certainly not in like 18 months or something.

And Primo is weak and expensive, EQ is a slow builder and known to raise HCT. Both are poor choices for me when I can just use aromasin on blast and no AI on trt.

Test is king and part of every cruise and blast in different amounts.

We’re all different and your solutions are not conceptually aligned with my goals or methods, and not universal in their appeal.

So there sure is stuff to talk about! Which doesn’t discount your methods at all and they work for plenty of folks from pros to bros.

You make good points here. I’m a Justin Harris fan so I get what OP is saying too. Personally I hate EQ I think it’s trash and would rather use other compounds and not stroke out from the RBC increase that comes with EQ after 20 weeks. IMO you just can’t beat test with primo and nand and some GH. The trifecta of the anabolics family with some GH to amplify it all.

 

[Mfras]

You make good points here. I’m a Justin Harris fan so I get what OP is saying too. Personally I hate EQ I think it’s trash and would rather use other compounds and not stroke out from the RBC increase that comes with EQ after 20 weeks. IMO you just can’t beat test with primo and nand and some GH. The trifecta of the anabolics family with some GH to amplify it all.

I understand primo was not super popular years ago because it’s kind of weak, and why it’s so popular now- low impact, elegant mild anabolic with fairly predictable AI effect, but never tried it, and now only keep some around because the female dose is cost effective even at the current common $150+ a bottle. I feel like if I was gonna use it I’d be spending a lot of money and not getting a lot of results, especially since I prefer less time on cycle and don’t see a problem using my ≈800-1200mg upper limit on stronger compounds with a little aromasin.

What kind of results do you get out of primo? How do you balance it with test and was that an easy and repeatable process to dial in e2? Do you feel like you make nice gains or experience other specific effects from it?

 

[shredded.lyfe]

I understand primo was not super popular years ago because it’s kind of weak, and why it’s so popular now- low impact, elegant mild anabolic with fairly predictable AI effect, but never tried it, and now only keep some around because the female dose is cost effective even at the current common $150+ a bottle. I feel like if I was gonna use it I’d be spending a lot of money and not getting a lot of results, especially since I prefer less time on cycle and don’t see a problem using my ≈800-1200mg upper limit on stronger compounds with a little aromasin.

What kind of results do you get out of primo? How do you balance it with test and was that an easy and repeatable process to dial in e2? Do you feel like you make nice gains or experience other specific effects from it?

Chinese primo is cheap(er) but still the most expensive thing on the roster.

Comparing it to masteron is probably the most appropriate way to describe it.

Masteron will hit the lipids similar to an oral.

Primo will hit the lipids fairly mildly

Masteron is basically no anabolic, all androgen

Primo will be 30% as anabolic as testosterone mg for mg, and less androgenic than testosterone.

Masteron will block estrogen at the receptor

Primo will reduce systemic estrogen.

Masteron has no pip

Primo has pip.

Do with that information what you will, can you work it into a stack? Sure. Is it worth the money? (maybe) is it worth the hype? (Absolutely not)

 

[Billbo98]

I understand primo was not super popular years ago because it’s kind of weak, and why it’s so popular now- low impact, elegant mild anabolic with fairly predictable AI effect, but never tried it, and now only keep some around because the female dose is cost effective even at the current common $150+ a bottle. I feel like if I was gonna use it I’d be spending a lot of money and not getting a lot of results, especially since I prefer less time on cycle and don’t see a problem using my ≈800-1200mg upper limit on stronger compounds with a little aromasin.

What kind of results do you get out of primo? How do you balance it with test and was that an easy and repeatable process to dial in e2? Do you feel like you make nice gains or experience other specific effects from it?

I prefer it at 2:1 test to primo. I’m a hyper responder to a lot of compounds. Off 4500iu HCG a week on a fertility protocol I was over 1000 total test where most guys struggle to hit 800 on HCG mono. I also don’t have issues with AIs. I regularly take anastrozole and have taken it up to 3mg a week on fertility protocol with 0 issues. I can even run test to primo in a 1:1 ratio when I have NPP or deca in the mix. I love primo but I would never pay over 60$ a bottle, the shortage didn’t affect me if you feel me. Primo to me is great because it’s anabolic and not super androgenic like mast. I just notice quality mass and fullness and also some mild water loss I would guess from the DHT effects. Overall just us like the peanut butter to tests jelly