DNP rate of weight loss

[jabo]

I know how much you lose will vary from person to person but at what point is it too much weight being lost per day and compromising muscle. For example I'm sure if somebody wanted to lose over 1lb a day they could with a high dose and cardio but at what point is it too much? Do you think someone should aim towards .5-1lb a day or is 1-1.5lbs per day still except able without muscle loss? I hope I made sense in what I wrote.

 

[johnnyBALLZ]

I know how much you lose will vary from person to person but at what point is it too much weight being lost per day and compromising muscle. For example I'm sure if somebody wanted to lose over 1lb a day they could with a high dose and cardio but at what point is it too much? Do you think someone should aim towards .5-1lb a day or is 1-1.5lbs per day still except able without muscle loss? I hope I made sense in what I wrote.

Keep protein high and keep up the training, you shouldn't lose much muscle at all.. I don't seem to anyway.

They say out of every 10lbs lost 9 is fat, not sure how much truth there is to that though as I've never seen any evidence.

 

[jabo]

Keep protein high and keep up the training, you shouldn't lose much muscle at all.. I don't anyway.

They say out of every 10lbs lost 9 is fat, not sure how much truth there is to that though as I've never seen any evidence.

Do you typically lose 1lb or over a day? Also I tend to put almost all the weight I lost back on in about a week, is that just the water being put back in the muscles bc I still look better then I did before at the same weight.

 

[Ultimatepip]

Ask one of the docs around here....I'm sure they'd have a good idea

 

[Rjs725]

Do you typically lose 1lb or over a day? Also I tend to put almost all the weight I lost back on in about a week, is that just the water being put back in the muscles bc I still look better then I did before at the same weight.

When you come off DNP, calories need to be kept low and protein needs to be high. You are prone to rebound fat gain when you come off. It's best to keep calories low to prevent any weight gain at all. And when I say low, I mean -500 below maintenance, as if you were cutting without the DNP.

DNP can deplete T3 on a week or longer cycles... And when T3 is depleted, you are very prone to gaining fat. Your maintenance pre-DNP will be even lower post-DNP.

After DNP you should lose subq water weight and after 4 days or so, you can up the carbs slightly and re-fill all the glycogen in muscles. But still, keep the calories low because you are still prone to rebound fat gain.

And that is where people who cycle DNP make their mistakes.

 

[jabo]

When you come off DNP, calories need to be kept low and protein needs to be high. You are prone to rebound fat gain when you come off. It's best to keep calories low to prevent any weight gain at all. And when I say low, I mean -500 below maintenance, as if you were cutting without the DNP.

DNP can deplete T3 on a week or longer cycles... And when T3 is depleted, you are very prone to gaining fat. Your maintenance pre-DNP will be even lower post-DNP.

After DNP you should lose subq water weight and after 4 days or so, you can up the carbs slightly and re-fill all the glycogen in muscles. But still, keep the calories low because you are still prone to rebound fat gain.

And that is where people who cycle DNP make their mistakes.

As far as t3 goes it will naturally go back to normal after awhile post cycle right? Like I don't need to supplement t3?

 

[Docd187123]

When you come off DNP, calories need to be kept low and protein needs to be high. You are prone to rebound fat gain when you come off. It's best to keep calories low to prevent any weight gain at all. And when I say low, I mean -500 below maintenance, as if you were cutting without the DNP.

DNP can deplete T3 on a week or longer cycles... And when T3 is depleted, you are very prone to gaining fat. Your maintenance pre-DNP will be even lower post-DNP.

After DNP you should lose subq water weight and after 4 days or so, you can up the carbs slightly and re-fill all the glycogen in muscles. But still, keep the calories low because you are still prone to rebound fat gain.

And that is where people who cycle DNP make their mistakes.

Can you please reference where DNP depletes T3 or where after coming off you are more prone to fat gain?

 

[jabo]

Can you please reference where DNP depletes T3 or where after coming off you are more prone to fat gain?

Can I get your opinion on the question of why I tend to gain weight back? For example my last cycle was 10 days and I lost about 5.5lbs. But 5-7 days later I gained that 5 back. I don't think it was fat though bc I still look leaner so is it just all that extra glycogen my muscles are holding now?

 

[Docd187123]

Can I get your opinion on the question of why I tend to gain weight back? For example my last cycle was 10 days and I lost about 5.5lbs. But 5-7 days later I gained that 5 back. I don't think it was fat though bc I still look leaner so is it just all that extra glycogen my muscles are holding now?

Could be the replenishing of lost glycogen like you said or possibly your diet leading to some water retention.

 

[Rjs725]

Can you please reference where DNP depletes T3 or where after coming off you are more prone to fat gain?

Google "t3 dnp" or even meso's DNP profile says it under the side effects column: https://thinksteroids.com/steroid-profiles/dnp/

You always hear about people gaining fat back post DNP. A lot has to do with diet and if you cycle DNP for 14+ days (I think that is the number referenced mainly) T3 begins to drop. I can't reference a study, but it's the best I got...

Cravings has a lot to do with it too. Never go in a caloric surplus directly after a cycle of DNP or T3. Just like coming off a diet, you need to ease back into a caloric surplus.

 

[MrRippedZilla]

I vaguely recall a foreign case study that illustrated a bodybuilder with low thyroid levels but that could've have been due to the other compounds he was using rather than the DNP per se.

Under normal doses, thyroid function should be normal after a small adjustment period (due to DNP occupying thyroid binding proteins) so even though overall t3/t4 levels may be lower - there is no need to supplement with t3 since actual thyroid function is normal.

 

[Docd187123]

I vaguely recall a foreign case study that illustrated a bodybuilder with low thyroid levels but that could've have been due to the other compounds he was using rather than the DNP per se.

Under normal doses, thyroid function should be normal after a small adjustment period (due to DNP occupying thyroid binding proteins) so even though overall t3/t4 levels may be lower - there is no need to supplement with t3 since actual thyroid function is normal.

I believe I read where Conciliator had that study translated to English and they weren't sure the cause of low T3. He hinted it could have been due to the BBer taking exogenous T3 which will of course suppress natural production.

 

[MrRippedZilla]

I believe I read where Conciliator had that study translated to English and they weren't sure the cause of low T3. He hinted it could have been due to the BBer taking exogenous T3 which will of course suppress natural production.

I would say that's a strong possibility.

I suspect most people gain fat back after dropping dnp simply due poor dietary planning.
Some rely on the dnp exclusively without making the dietary changes necessary to maintain the fat loss after the cycle.
Some give in to the cravings and binge.
Some don't adjust their calories to take into account the lowered maintenance of their new weight.
Some forget about dnp depleting glycogen and the need for it to be restored post cycle.

What is clear, based on the data, is that there is nothing about DNP that should cause any kind of rebound fat gain whatsoever.

 

[Docd187123]

I would say that's a strong possibility.

I suspect most people gain fat back after dropping dnp simply due poor dietary planning.
Some rely on the dnp exclusively without making the dietary changes necessary to maintain the fat loss after the cycle.
Some give in to the cravings and binge.
Some don't adjust their calories to take into account the lowered maintenance of their new weight.
Some forget about dnp depleting glycogen and the need for it to be restored post cycle.

What is clear, based on the data, is that there is nothing about DNP that should cause any kind of rebound fat gain whatsoever.

We just keep running into each other everywhere don't we

 

[MrRippedZilla]

We just keep running into each other everywhere don't we

Lol let's just say I'm broadening my horizons due to unsatisfactory working conditions at home...
Plus I've always loved meso - easily the most knowledgeable board out there, so no surprise to see you here

 

[CensoredBoardsSuck]

Can you please reference where DNP depletes T3 or where after coming off you are more prone to fat gain?

The research I've seen was done on rats in the 1950's and 1960's and showed an effect on T4. DNP increased biliary and fecal excretion of T4, and increased the deiodination of T4. Whether it deiodinated T4 to T3 or RT3 or both, I can't recall. DNP also displaced thyroid hormone from its binding proteins and that could lower the total hormone concentration in serum. DNP was also shown to depress thyroidal radioactive iodine uptake and secretion.

Also, since T4 in vitro has also been shown to uncouple oxidative phosphorylation, it's possible that DNP is able to mimic the action of thyroid hormone on the hypothalamus or pituitary.

The first two citations link directly to the full text. For the other two, I don't even have access to the abstracts at the moment.


http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1113/jphysiol.1961.sp006788/pdf

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC292505/

Acta Endocrinol (Copenh). 1958 Oct;29(2):176-90.
Studies on the peripheral disappearance of thyroid hormone. V. The effect of 2,4 dinitrophenol on the variations of the I 131 distribution pattern with time, after the injection of I 131 labeled l-thyroxine into thyroidectomized, l-thyroxine maintained rats.
ESCOBAR DEL REY F, MORREALE DE ESCOBAR G.

Acta Endocrinol (Copenh). 1958 Oct;29(2):161-75.
Studies on the peripheral disappearance of thyroid hormone. IV. The effect of 2,4-dinitrophenol on the I 131 distribution in thyroidectomized, l-thyroxine maintained rats, 24 hours after the injection of I 131 labeled l-thyroxine.
ESCOBAR DEL REY F, MORREALE DE ESCOBAR G.

 

[Dr JIM]

The research I've seen was done on rats in the 1950's and 1960's and showed an effect on T4. DNP increased biliary and fecal excretion of T4, and increased the deiodination of T4. Whether it deiodinated T4 to T3 or RT3 or both, I can't recall. DNP also displaced thyroid hormone from its binding proteins and that could lower the total hormone concentration in serum. DNP was also shown to depress thyroidal radioactive iodine uptake and secretion.

Also, since T4 in vitro has also been shown to uncouple oxidative phosphorylation, it's possible that DNP is able to mimic the action of thyroid hormone on the hypothalamus or pituitary.

The first two citations link directly to the full text. For the other two, I don't even have access to the abstracts at the moment.


http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1113/jphysiol.1961.sp006788/pdf

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC292505/

Acta Endocrinol (Copenh). 1958 Oct;29(2):176-90.
Studies on the peripheral disappearance of thyroid hormone. V. The effect of 2,4 dinitrophenol on the variations of the I 131 distribution pattern with time, after the injection of I 131 labeled l-thyroxine into thyroidectomized, l-thyroxine maintained rats.
ESCOBAR DEL REY F, MORREALE DE ESCOBAR G.

Acta Endocrinol (Copenh). 1958 Oct;29(2):161-75.
Studies on the peripheral disappearance of thyroid hormone. IV. The effect of 2,4-dinitrophenol on the I 131 distribution in thyroidectomized, l-thyroxine maintained rats, 24 hours after the injection of I 131 labeled l-thyroxine.
ESCOBAR DEL REY F, MORREALE DE ESCOBAR G.

Regardless of what effect DNP has on "thyroid levels" or total body weight, DNP IS A PURELY CATABOLIC AGENT and as such is likely the absolute worst means for a BB to "cut" or lose weight.

This "poison" (as listed in the MSDS and probably all current Pharmaceutical Compendiums) has no benefit over any other means of effective weight loss, has many more side effects and should only be a passing thought for any sincere BB.

 

[MR10X]

I believe I read where Conciliator had that study translated to English and they weren't sure the cause of low T3. He hinted it could have been due to the BBer taking exogenous T3 which will of course suppress natural production.

I was diagnosed hypothroid,my TSH was 11.4. I am now on T4 112mcg daily.It brought my TSH down to 1.220.From what i can understand now about thyroid,done a lot of research on it that it doesnt shut your Stimulating hormone down completely (TSH) like taking exogenous test shuts your LH down and you dont produce natural Test any more.So my body is still producing some of its natural Thyroid but my exogenous T4 is adding to the total amount my body has.....

 

[MrRippedZilla]

The research I've seen was done on rats in the 1950's and 1960's and showed an effect on T4. DNP increased biliary and fecal excretion of T4, and increased the deiodination of T4. Whether it deiodinated T4 to T3 or RT3 or both, I can't recall. DNP also displaced thyroid hormone from its binding proteins and that could lower the total hormone concentration in serum. DNP was also shown to depress thyroidal radioactive iodine uptake and secretion.

Also, since T4 in vitro has also been shown to uncouple oxidative phosphorylation, it's possible that DNP is able to mimic the action of thyroid hormone on the hypothalamus or pituitary.

The first two citations link directly to the full text. For the other two, I don't even have access to the abstracts at the moment.


http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1113/jphysiol.1961.sp006788/pdf

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC292505/

Be warned that the first study on rats is almost completely non-applicable to humans.
Those rats were taking doses ranging from 2-4mg/8hrs, which is extremely high considering the rats weighed a max of 260g.
As I stated above that under NORMAL doses thyroid function shouldn't be impaired - not under ridiculously high doses.

The main disadvantage of both of the free to read studies is the fact that they're acute in nature.
As Conciliator discovered, dnp does indeed impact thyroid function & serum levels primarily due to DNP occupying thyroid binding proteins. However, this is a temporary situation and after a small adjustment period thyroid function returns to normal - though serum levels will remain lower.
The fact is, there is absolutely NO good evidence that thyroid function is impaired from dnp use in humans. I have had bloodwork done after finishing each run of dnp and each time thyroid function has been normal.

If the main concern is putting weight back on after finishing the dnp cycle, then using t3 will only make this more likely since once you discontinue the t3 it will take a while before natural thyroid output returns to normal.
Not to mention that, IMO, t3 is far more catabolic than dnp