Do you plan to blast in old age (40+)?

Ah, simpler than that.

This is not a complicated process, so there is no need to complicate it.

(1) Which hormones are not so important - I know, heresy. You just need a hormone signal to tell your body to hang on to muscle. Most of the choice of hormones you see on sites like this one or from bodybuilders have to do with getting rid of water at the end of the cutting in preparation for being on stage. That really does not have anything to do with the cut itself. I have started a cut on testosterone and deca, because I did not care about water at the commencement of the cut. I just cared about a hormone signal to the muscle while I went about cutting the fat.

(2) You need intense resistance training.

(3) You need sufficient protein.

Protein, training, and hormones (three things) tell your body to hold on to muscle even while calories decrease. Don't pull any of these three legs out from your three legged stool.

Then weigh or measure and track everything you eat and drink, consistently, every day. Get your calories set on a certain level and stay there for a week. Keep protein high, fats low, and adjust the carbs as needed. The amount of carbs at the start is not too terribly important, but get sufficient carbs for the first week.

Progress measuring tools - 2 or 3: Measuring tape around the waist, up by the bellybutton (not down where your pants sit), and weight on the scale (in the morning after peeing before eating or drinking). If you want to really see the difference in real time, add a third thing, photos of mandatory poses in good lighting.

At the end of one week step on the scale.

Did your weight increase, decrease, or stay the same? If it decreased 1.5-2 pounds change nothing and go another week.

If it stayed the same, pull some carbs and/or add a little cardio. Nothing drastic. Make small changes. You are looking for a trend of maybe 1.5-2 pounds weekly.

Pulling carbs - a little at a time. If you hold carbs stead each day, then it is easy to pull small amounts of rice or potatoes from each meal. Keep carbs around workout time if you have to decide to pull more from certain meals at some point. If you cycle carbs, all that is important is the weekly carb count and calorie count. You can still have some high days in the cycle, just make sure that you adjust carbs in your cycle for the one week period so that the number goes down for the week (if an adjustment is needed because you did not drop weight that week).

Cardio - a good idea no matter what. You can add days, add duration, increase the intensity. Cardio gives you another variable to play with. No need to go crazy with it at first.

If your weight went up, don't panic. Just take a look at your diet and cardio and decide what small changes to make. Do not make major changes week to week. They will add up to major changes over the next 12-16 weeks.

Also, be aware of water weight if you have been off of all hormones and are just starting them. It is normal to add a few pounds of glycogen and water right at the start.

If you lost more than 2 pounds, consider adding some carbs back in each day to slow down your process. You cut too many or are doing too much cardio or both.

If you added weight or stayed the same but your measuring tape objectively tells you that your waist is significantly smaller, then change nothing, as your progress is still going in the right direction. Photos can be useful in making this determination as well.

Stay on a general trend of 1.5-2 pounds a week.

Adjust nutrition and cardio as needed. Keep protein high <--- this by itself means a lot of food, eggs plus 2 or 2.5 pounds of meat.

In order to keep fats low you may need to substitute some things you normally eat. For instance, cheeseburgers are not going to be on the menu daily. LOL. Eggs in the morning, whereas you might have been eating 6-8 eggs, you are going to need to decrease the number of eggs (fat in the yolks) and add egg whites as a replacement to get the protein back up to around 50 grams for breakfast (as it should be up around there at every meal).

Resist the urge to fill the protein requirement with whey protein shakes, but if there is going to be a gap in your daily nutrition one day due to travel or whatever, by all means it is better to drink a shake than go without the protein. But plan your meals and pack them with you and you will find this is rarely the case. I only really use the stuff for something at the end of a workout or to fill a gap due to travel or other stuff getting in the way of meals.

Small tweaks each week and only as needed. Keep your weight training intensity up.

It is really, really simple to do, but harder to implement because beer and cheeseburgers are awesome.

I highly recommend the photos in mandatory poses and good lighting (in addition to weighing and a tailor's tape around the waist at the belly button area) because they will reveal your condition with no BS or excuses or flattery, and you can compare the progress you are making from the beginning to the end.
Excellent! This should be a sticky thread, appreciate it!
 
Ah, simpler than that.

This is not a complicated process, so there is no need to complicate it.

(1) Which hormones are not so important - I know, heresy. You just need a hormone signal to tell your body to hang on to muscle. Most of the choice of hormones you see on sites like this one or from bodybuilders have to do with getting rid of water at the end of the cutting in preparation for being on stage. That really does not have anything to do with the cut itself. I have started a cut on testosterone and deca, because I did not care about water at the commencement of the cut. I just cared about a hormone signal to the muscle while I went about cutting the fat.

(2) You need intense resistance training.

(3) You need sufficient protein.

Protein, training, and hormones (three things) tell your body to hold on to muscle even while calories decrease. Don't pull any of these three legs out from your three legged stool.

Then weigh or measure and track everything you eat and drink, consistently, every day. Get your calories set on a certain level and stay there for a week. Keep protein high, fats low, and adjust the carbs as needed. The amount of carbs at the start is not too terribly important, but get sufficient carbs for the first week.

Progress measuring tools - 2 or 3: Measuring tape around the waist, up by the bellybutton (not down where your pants sit), and weight on the scale (in the morning after peeing before eating or drinking). If you want to really see the difference in real time, add a third thing, photos of mandatory poses in good lighting.

At the end of one week step on the scale.

Did your weight increase, decrease, or stay the same? If it decreased 1.5-2 pounds change nothing and go another week.

If it stayed the same, pull some carbs and/or add a little cardio. Nothing drastic. Make small changes. You are looking for a trend of maybe 1.5-2 pounds weekly.

Pulling carbs - a little at a time. If you hold carbs stead each day, then it is easy to pull small amounts of rice or potatoes from each meal. Keep carbs around workout time if you have to decide to pull more from certain meals at some point. If you cycle carbs, all that is important is the weekly carb count and calorie count. You can still have some high days in the cycle, just make sure that you adjust carbs in your cycle for the one week period so that the number goes down for the week (if an adjustment is needed because you did not drop weight that week).

Cardio - a good idea no matter what. You can add days, add duration, increase the intensity. Cardio gives you another variable to play with. No need to go crazy with it at first.

If your weight went up, don't panic. Just take a look at your diet and cardio and decide what small changes to make. Do not make major changes week to week. They will add up to major changes over the next 12-16 weeks.

Also, be aware of water weight if you have been off of all hormones and are just starting them. It is normal to add a few pounds of glycogen and water right at the start.

If you lost more than 2 pounds, consider adding some carbs back in each day to slow down your process. You cut too many or are doing too much cardio or both.

If you added weight or stayed the same but your measuring tape objectively tells you that your waist is significantly smaller, then change nothing, as your progress is still going in the right direction. Photos can be useful in making this determination as well.

Stay on a general trend of 1.5-2 pounds a week.

Adjust nutrition and cardio as needed. Keep protein high <--- this by itself means a lot of food, eggs plus 2 or 2.5 pounds of meat.

In order to keep fats low you may need to substitute some things you normally eat. For instance, cheeseburgers are not going to be on the menu daily. LOL. Eggs in the morning, whereas you might have been eating 6-8 eggs, you are going to need to decrease the number of eggs (fat in the yolks) and add egg whites as a replacement to get the protein back up to around 50 grams for breakfast (as it should be up around there at every meal).

Resist the urge to fill the protein requirement with whey protein shakes, but if there is going to be a gap in your daily nutrition one day due to travel or whatever, by all means it is better to drink a shake than go without the protein. But plan your meals and pack them with you and you will find this is rarely the case. I only really use the stuff for something at the end of a workout or to fill a gap due to travel or other stuff getting in the way of meals.

Small tweaks each week and only as needed. Keep your weight training intensity up.

It is really, really simple to do, but harder to implement because beer and cheeseburgers are awesome.

I highly recommend the photos in mandatory poses and good lighting (in addition to weighing and a tailor's tape around the waist at the belly button area) because they will reveal your condition with no BS or excuses or flattery, and you can compare the progress you are making from the beginning to the end.

Thanks for this post... but now im a bit worried.

Im a newbie on my 1st test-c "cycle" and have been at 500mg for about 4 weeks... My weight gain has been alarming to say the least. Food intake is indeed higher than prior to meet the protein goal of 1g/lb. I probably went from 2200kcal/day to about 2500kcal/day the last 4 weeks.

Ive put on about 5lb a week since I shifted to 500mg. To be honest, I dont understand how unless its water weight. Does Test-C do that? From 208lb new years to about 230lb today. I mean... yea I cheat on food sometimes. I hit like 3000kcal a couple of days a week. Could that be it?

Strength gain has been ok but hard to gauge because I am still rehabbing upper body (shoulder tears) but energy is practically the same as before I went on anything (a point of major disappointment for me). But I am still having trouble with sleep... working on it but no real solution yet.

Here is my change in measures since January. (cm)

Chest 109->111 (rehabbing, at about 60% of peak strength)
Abs 101->103
Waist 96->99
Hip 105->104

Thats the mid section. Everything else is pretty tame except for legs.

Thigh 50->61 (it was gradual)
Calf 42->44

Does this seem right? Is it just water? Im pulling bloods next week to see E2 and lipids. Should I pull something else with it?

Your help is greatly appreciated.
 
Thanks for this post... but now im a bit worried.

Im a newbie on my 1st test-c "cycle" and have been at 500mg for about 4 weeks... My weight gain has been alarming to say the least. Food intake is indeed higher than prior to meet the protein goal of 1g/lb. I probably went from 2200kcal/day to about 2500kcal/day the last 4 weeks.

Ive put on about 5lb a week since I shifted to 500mg. To be honest, I dont understand how unless its water weight. Does Test-C do that? From 208lb new years to about 230lb today. I mean... yea I cheat on food sometimes. I hit like 3000kcal a couple of days a week. Could that be it?

Strength gain has been ok but hard to gauge because I am still rehabbing upper body (shoulder tears) but energy is practically the same as before I went on anything (a point of major disappointment for me). But I am still having trouble with sleep... working on it but no real solution yet.

Here is my change in measures since January. (cm)

Chest 109->111 (rehabbing, at about 60% of peak strength)
Abs 101->103
Waist 96->99
Hip 105->104

Thats the mid section. Everything else is pretty tame except for legs.

Thigh 50->61 (it was gradual)
Calf 42->44

Does this seem right? Is it just water? Im pulling bloods next week to see E2 and lipids. Should I pull something else with it?

Your help is greatly appreciated.
i would bet its just water weight , unfortunately, but Testosterone is known to put a little water weight on you, espacially once you get @500 mg+ , , if you can get this panel for a very good "picture" of how your body is responding to 500 mg of testosterone c ,,
 

Attachments

  • IMG_2037.webp
    IMG_2037.webp
    103.1 KB · Views: 10
Nothing to be "worried" about at all. First cycle always brings water weight with 500mg of testosterone.

And merely beating 1 gram per pound of protein may not be enough, although at 230, you are probably ok.

But why did you hop on your first cycle while rehabbing from shoulder tears?

Trying to figure out my low energy issue. Muscle building is a "fun" 2ndary. Im aware of the sleep problem but I have no idea what else to do about it. I got the CPAP finally and so far, its not really helping from what I can tell. I got two monitoring devices aside from the CPAP to double check data as well (a ring and watch). Sleep seems to have improved slightly with the CPAP but not dramatically. I used to average like 4-5 hours and now its more consistent 5-5.5 hours.

But even on stretches where I sleep well (8-9 hours), the energy just isnt there and hasnt been there in over 15 years. I really miss it. When my shoulders started working well again (thank to you all you muscleheads), I went on a deep dive about the energy thing. I have low estrogen (undetectable) and of course Testosterone vs age, etc. I figured I would give it a try and see how it goes. If it doesnt work, Ill just stop. Its been interesting so far. Learning a lot.
 
i would bet its just water weight , unfortunately, but Testosterone is known to put a little water weight on you, espacially once you get @500 mg+ , , if you can get this panel for a very good "picture" of how your body is responding to 500 mg of testosterone c ,,

And here I was hoping to just E2 and lipids... lol. Ok fine ill do a full panel again. Note I did do them when I was at 250mg/wk and 2iu/daily HGH. Now its 500mg/wk, 3.2iu/daily, and I added 500iu HCG/wk, 5mg/daily Resovustatin (for lipids).

Some questions though... what info would I get from the total T level & IGF? I did those at 250mg and 2iu and was already >1500ng/dL Test and 404ng/mL IGF. What would it tell us if they go even higher?
 
And here I was hoping to just E2 and lipids... lol. Ok fine ill do a full panel again. Note I did do them when I was at 250mg/wk and 2iu/daily HGH. Now its 500mg/wk, 3.2iu/daily, and I added 500iu HCG/wk, 5mg/daily Resovustatin (for lipids).

Some questions though... what info would I get from the total T level & IGF? I did those at 250mg and 2iu and was already >1500ng/dL Test and 404ng/mL IGF. What would it tell us if they go even higher?
was your tt a capped test? If nothing else you'll get a good idea how effective your dose increases were, albeit the list i gave is a little extensive, but if you can afford it go for it, if not then get as many as you can off that list with the important ones first,,
 
was your tt a capped test? If nothing else you'll get a good idea how effective your dose increases were, albeit the list i gave is a little extensive, but if you can afford it go for it, if not then get as many as you can off that list with the important ones first,,

Understood. At some point I recall that LH and FSH arent a big deal at my age? Should I worry about them? I already have kids, wife cant have more even if we wanted due to prior complications.
 
My dexa scan says 7.2% and I look nothing like that, except for my arms and legs which have crazy veins. Buncha loose skin and such. Lame.



I tend to prefer an average over the week, which mediates the day to day fluctuations.



Or maybe a little less to retain lean tissue.
I'm 53, down to 200# from 275 18 months ago (tirz and test). Dexa scan yesterday showed 10.3% BF, but the fat man skinsuit I'm wearing sure doesn't show it around my belly. I do get compliments from younger women as long as I have my shorts pulled up to my belly button.
 
Lipids are usually pretty good. I’d have to go back and look at old bloodwork to see what the numbers were but generally slightly above mid range on HDL and LDL.

I’ve got bloodwork coming up in 3 weeks to see where I am on my current protocol.

If that stack is heavy handed what would you recommend? Trying one at a time and if that isn’t dropping LDL enough then add in another? Halving the dosage on all three?

Last year is the first time I’ve ever even considered BP and lipid management but now I realize how important they are.

To be fair, it’s probably fine, but not something I would generally recommend as an ancillary for every cycle without a little information specific tot he person. Everyone that I’ve recommended this to on this forum has already expressed a concern about their lipid panel. With no other family history or indications of ASCVD, I like to see LDL-C below 100mg/dL and if you can measure ApoB under 80mg/dL and since you’re checking ApoB check Lp(a) as well.

In terms of interventions, I wouldn’t mess with the dose of ezetimibe ot bempedoic acid. Either take them or don’t. I’ve gone through the literature and there’s little to suggest how an alternate dose might behave. Rosuvastatin and statins in general have a lot more data available on the range of doses one can take and are also often prescribed at various doses whereas the other two compounds are always prescribed at 10mg and 180mg for ezetimibe and bempedoic acid respectively.

I’m term of potential for adverse side effects, I think I’d go from most to least benign. Ezetimibe is about as harmless as they come and will give a mild reduction in lipids. Bempedoic acid is next, I think, but it’s also a much newer compound. There are some minor adverse side effects that are rare and the onerous looking “tendon rupture” which only occurs when coupled with with a very high dose of atorvastatin. This presumes one can get bempedoic acid easily.

If those two don’t yield the desired reduction I would then throw in Rosuvastatin at 5mg unless there’s still a substantial reduction needed, in which case 10mg. If that all doesn’t do the trick then consider Repatha.

Rosuvastatin has a lot of data and is generally regarded to be very safe. It’s true that some people have side effects and when they occur, it seems they can be pretty rough. If someone has substantial risk profile already then I wouldn’t hesitate to recommend a statin, but for use as an ancillary, I would avoid it unless needed.
Bloodwork yesterday and lipid panel already came back.
Still waiting on ApoB results.

Currently cruising on 200mg test cyp/80mg primo per week.
Have been on this cruise for 6 weeks following a pretty mild 14 week blast of 350 test/175 primo/100-125 tren/50mg var.

Total Cholesterol: 181
HDL: 46
Triglycerides: 75
LDL: 118
CHOL/HDLC: 3.9
Non-HDL Chol: 135

I don't see a need for lipid intervention at this point so I'm just going to ride out this cruise and see what happens.
 
I'm almost there and just started not long ago. Honestly keeps me going you start having medical problems and staying natural isn't an option if you want to keep moving like you use too.
 
Bloodwork yesterday and lipid panel already came back.
Still waiting on ApoB results.

Currently cruising on 200mg test cyp/80mg primo per week.
Have been on this cruise for 6 weeks following a pretty mild 14 week blast of 350 test/175 primo/100-125 tren/50mg var.

Total Cholesterol: 181
HDL: 46
Triglycerides: 75
LDL: 118
CHOL/HDLC: 3.9
Non-HDL Chol: 135

I don't see a need for lipid intervention at this point so I'm just going to ride out this cruise and see what happens.
ApoB results are in:

A1: 109
B: 100
B/A1 Ratio: 0.92
 
Did your doc recommend a path forward? To get ApoB <70
This wasn't doc ordered bloodwork, so no, not yet.

In the process of trying to find a new PC doc because mine quit to get into specialty medicine but this will been of the first things I mention when I'm able to get in to one.
 
Back
Top