MESO-Rx
Anabolic Steroids
Does HCG effect libido?
- Thread starter tomguy
- Start date
Most guys report it does.
There are (at least) two mechanisms going on. First, it produces rapid accelerations in serum androgen levels. We notice not just the absolute concentration of testosterone, but also (and sometimes moreso), the DIRECTION it is traveling in. That is why TRT dosage increases usually bring robust libido. If we have gone to above normal range, the libido will then fall off again.
I have come to think we have LH receptors in the more peripheral (emotional) centers of the brain. No proof, it just seems that way. Maybe someone else has some related information.
There are (at least) two mechanisms going on. First, it produces rapid accelerations in serum androgen levels. We notice not just the absolute concentration of testosterone, but also (and sometimes moreso), the DIRECTION it is traveling in. That is why TRT dosage increases usually bring robust libido. If we have gone to above normal range, the libido will then fall off again.
I have come to think we have LH receptors in the more peripheral (emotional) centers of the brain. No proof, it just seems that way. Maybe someone else has some related information.
Doesn't a T shot do the same?SWALE said:
Would you please explain/elaborate on what you mean by DIRECTION? Are you saying it goes to the brain?SWALE said:
Isn't that because too much T results in too much E2; and too much E2 reduces libido?SWALE said:
I don't have any information for you on that.SWALE said:
However, the way I look at it, it's better to have the testicles working than to put them to sleep. That's simplistic, but it just makes sense to keep them working. I suspect that someday someone will eventually discover a scientific reason why it's better for you. In the meantime, I'm sticking with HCG.
No, just T does not do the same things. They are completely different.
"Direction" means increasing or decreasing serum hormone concentrations.
Like I said, when T goes too high, libido eventually falls off, and you are left with less than you started with. E is a different, and often contributory, issue.
I added in HCG to traditional TRT to bring the benefits of both. I have achieved the same serum androgen levels in men with test cyp or test gel they had on just HCG, and all report they felt better on the testosterone. THEN, when I added in HCG, they felt even better. You are limiting yourself with just HCG. HCG alone simply does not bring the benefits T does. Try it, you will see.
See my HCG Protocol sticky for other benefits of adding regular, small dose HCG to traditional TRT. The number one Anti-Aging Medicine doctor in America, Ron Rothenberg, MD, emailed me last November to tell me he is now using my HCG Protocol.
There obviously is more to TRT than just serum androgen levels.
"Direction" means increasing or decreasing serum hormone concentrations.
Like I said, when T goes too high, libido eventually falls off, and you are left with less than you started with. E is a different, and often contributory, issue.
I added in HCG to traditional TRT to bring the benefits of both. I have achieved the same serum androgen levels in men with test cyp or test gel they had on just HCG, and all report they felt better on the testosterone. THEN, when I added in HCG, they felt even better. You are limiting yourself with just HCG. HCG alone simply does not bring the benefits T does. Try it, you will see.
See my HCG Protocol sticky for other benefits of adding regular, small dose HCG to traditional TRT. The number one Anti-Aging Medicine doctor in America, Ron Rothenberg, MD, emailed me last November to tell me he is now using my HCG Protocol.
There obviously is more to TRT than just serum androgen levels.
richard0460
New Member
I m 62 play basketball and tennis and am using HGH and TRT to maintain strength and sexual funcitoning. After a wonderful 5 months my T Gel caused Estrogen to rise and eventually I lost most sexual functioning and even Arimidex didnt correct the sexual funcitoning so my doc wants me to take once per week HCG 2500 u sub cu to stimulate the testes to produce T. My question is what is your protocol for using T with HCG? Do you also continue using Arimidex to supress E.
Many thanks for what you are doing for all of us who want to stay active and functioning as we age.
Many thanks for what you are doing for all of us who want to stay active and functioning as we age.
Serum androgen levels certainly arent the whole story as far as libido and TRT goes. The whole body-brain chemistry and the myriad feedback mechanisms of all the hormones are involved. But the most contributory element is serum androgens.
I have been running my own TRT program and reading the posts on this board for 2 1/2 years now. I study the medical texts regarding basic, clinical, and endocrine psyiology as well as hypertension and clinical nephrology.
I fail to understand why you say that "You are limiting yourself with just HCG. HCG alone simply does not bring the benefits T does. Try it, you will see."
I one relys only on hcg then androgen receptor down- regulation is sure to follow eventually. I have used hcg excusively to the point of thyroid stimulation without loss of effectivness.
Regular small doses of hcg are essential for maintaining testicular mass. Got to feed the boys or they will go away from negative feedback.
Regarding the effectiveness of hcg as compared to T: It takes several large doses of hcg a few days apart to mimic the effect of regular T injections, assuming that one has the functioning Leydig cells to utilize the hcg in the first place. The only difference I have noticed is in the rapidity of change regarding hcg vs. T. T IM comes on like gangbusters and hcg creeps up slowly. This makes sense psyiologically as well.
The optimum proportion of T to hcg seems vary from individual to individual.
Any thoughts on Clomid?
I am sorry but this is nuts doing this much HCG will kill your Testis burn then out and make you Primary your not trying to make a baby your trying to keep your Testosterone levels up. If you did this and did not test low you just messed your self up for life. You will need TRT ahd HCG for life. Taking arimidex works if you know how to take it if your "Estradiol levels are high you go on this until you get your night time and morning wood back this if you lose your wood later your going down to low. So all you do is stop the Arimidex until your wood comes back that day go back on it but take less Arimidex most do good at just .25 mgs a 1/4 of a pill every 2 to 3 days.
Put simply, I am already on TRT, and sometimes larger doses. HCG added makes me horney as hell!!! 500ius every few days just keeps me where I am constantly sniffing around the wife. But every now and then I will pop a 1500 - 2000 iu dose and I go through the roof...
FYI, if I run out, or neglect for a few weeks for whatever reason, my libido is gone and my wife is HAPPY!!!
FYI, if I run out, or neglect for a few weeks for whatever reason, my libido is gone and my wife is HAPPY!!!
BBC3,
What does your trt/hcg prtocol consist of if yiou don not mind sharing? Do you have any estrogen related proiblems due to your high dose of hcg? HIgh e2 KILLS my libido..
What does your trt/hcg prtocol consist of if yiou don not mind sharing? Do you have any estrogen related proiblems due to your high dose of hcg? HIgh e2 KILLS my libido..
Do you have low Estradiol levels doing this much HCG drives up Estradiol and if your low as it comes up your feel like this.
Or it's the spike in your levels doing this still it's not good to do this much to offten it will make you Primary.
The best respie is to get your Total T levels up into the upper 1/3 of your labs range and to keep your Estradiol at the best levels say 20 pg/ml.
Aftre a time doing this you body starts to undo any damage done by have low T.
Or it's the spike in your levels doing this still it's not good to do this much to offten it will make you Primary.
The best respie is to get your Total T levels up into the upper 1/3 of your labs range and to keep your Estradiol at the best levels say 20 pg/ml.
Aftre a time doing this you body starts to undo any damage done by have low T.
When I am being "a good boy" and dosing properly... My t injections are once or twice a week totalling 200mgs/week aggregate max. This usually proves too much by the end of 12 weeks or so. I have never yet been able to tweek it down further as usually by this much time passing, I am ready to be "bad" again for a while. Hcg I go about once a week at 5-750ius. I could do a lot better by always separating my dose of T to twice a week, and getting the HCG down to 250 injecting EOD. This would provide optimal results for further tweak. To answer the question, my E2 is usually high or off the charts. I once tried controlling it with Adex, and did not get any notable response within one months dosing at 1mg EOD. I am not sure, but I believe the liquid Adex I got was poorly concentrated if any at all, regardless, I got discouraged. I think my only saving grace is the fact that my T tends to break down to DHT & E2 in a somewhat functional proportion. As far as my libido is concerned, I never ever seem to have a problem wanting sex. I always want it from my wife. I am thinking this is in part psychological. As far as erections are concerned I am definitely lacking morning wood lately, or a solid bone to get up longer than to blow a pathetic little nut. I am not the greatest "case data" to pull from as I have many other variables in play right now. But I am also speaking from past experience inclusive of test and HCG only protocol. I am really on the verge of cleaning up my act. It is going to begin with a documented attempt at an extensive PCT type therapy to try to see if I can return to my before supplementation status. It should prove interesting to say the least.
I agree with you that high E2 seems detrimental to my overall sexual performance. I have found large doses of HCG to increase hormones, but I think my DHT production goes up equally enough to somewhat balance, if not overcome at least for a brief period.
I agree with you that high E2 seems detrimental to my overall sexual performance. I have found large doses of HCG to increase hormones, but I think my DHT production goes up equally enough to somewhat balance, if not overcome at least for a brief period.
As I mentioned in prior post, I do believe my E2 remains pretty high and always out of optimal proportion. I am always extremely concerned about possible Leydig desensitization. I am getting extremely poor response from the last batch I purchased. It is the greek brand and certainly appears legit, however, I would def have to wonder based on the response I have been getting. I am wondering if that stuff is so delicate that it could have been damaged in the mail, via heat, or xray radiation. Have you ever heard of this??
Here is how I respond to HCG, perhaps you could offer some advice and insight. My first experience with HCG was after 8 weeks of continuous Testosterone supplementation(my first) in a steroid cycle fasion. The T doses ranged from 400/wk to as much as 800mgs/wk prior to this first dose. There was considerable atrophy starting to be evident by this eigth week. I dosed the HCG in (2) 2500iu doses 7-10 days apart. I got an excellent response and the boys blew up and hurt like blueballs. It was awesome. The "swollen" part lasted about 4 days tops, and then on with life and my high T doses for ten more weeks. Again the HCG always yielded the same. It was only in the past year that I started with the steady and small dosing philosophy or 750ius E3D, or even as steady and small as 250 EOD. I dont seem to get a response of the "swelling and sore" feeling so much like this, but I also think I dont suffer from the atrophy I should be incurring considering the high test protocol of the last year. So I dont really know. Perhaps its not the HCG and I just never did small doses with other batches?? I get frustrated from time to time on this protocol and blow it out to see if I am indeed at full testicular capacity. For example, about a month ago, I mixed a 5000iu into (3) doses. I administered them over a ten day period. (Again this is so that I can confirm full size already achieved when I cant be sure at regular dosing.) I dont get a response until the third dose and then I do still get the swelling and blueball like pain, and it lasts about 4 days. Can you help to explain this. Do I have to get all the way to that third dose because they are already close to normal capacity and it is hence taking more to get the reaction.?? Am I partially desisitized? or on the way? Keep in mind that on this last example, there was not signigicant increase in size resulting (as expected), But they did get full and firmer feeling with the slight pain of course. And as always it seems that most of the swelling is associated with "the goods" behind the balls. Portion associated with finished product sperm storage, handling, and delivery...?? Any thoughts please. Does this all sound like a normal healthy response. And should I not feel anything when taking regularly..?
Here is how I respond to HCG, perhaps you could offer some advice and insight. My first experience with HCG was after 8 weeks of continuous Testosterone supplementation(my first) in a steroid cycle fasion. The T doses ranged from 400/wk to as much as 800mgs/wk prior to this first dose. There was considerable atrophy starting to be evident by this eigth week. I dosed the HCG in (2) 2500iu doses 7-10 days apart. I got an excellent response and the boys blew up and hurt like blueballs. It was awesome. The "swollen" part lasted about 4 days tops, and then on with life and my high T doses for ten more weeks. Again the HCG always yielded the same. It was only in the past year that I started with the steady and small dosing philosophy or 750ius E3D, or even as steady and small as 250 EOD. I dont seem to get a response of the "swelling and sore" feeling so much like this, but I also think I dont suffer from the atrophy I should be incurring considering the high test protocol of the last year. So I dont really know. Perhaps its not the HCG and I just never did small doses with other batches?? I get frustrated from time to time on this protocol and blow it out to see if I am indeed at full testicular capacity. For example, about a month ago, I mixed a 5000iu into (3) doses. I administered them over a ten day period. (Again this is so that I can confirm full size already achieved when I cant be sure at regular dosing.) I dont get a response until the third dose and then I do still get the swelling and blueball like pain, and it lasts about 4 days. Can you help to explain this. Do I have to get all the way to that third dose because they are already close to normal capacity and it is hence taking more to get the reaction.?? Am I partially desisitized? or on the way? Keep in mind that on this last example, there was not signigicant increase in size resulting (as expected), But they did get full and firmer feeling with the slight pain of course. And as always it seems that most of the swelling is associated with "the goods" behind the balls. Portion associated with finished product sperm storage, handling, and delivery...?? Any thoughts please. Does this all sound like a normal healthy response. And should I not feel anything when taking regularly..?
Too much hcg doesnt kill anything: it down-regulates the LH receptors in the Leydig cells (decreases their numbers) and will auto correct over time at lower stimulation (hcg and LH) levels. The body adjusts the receptor activity to match the stimulation level.
Arimidex is a lot more likely cause damage to the cardiovascular system thru excessive and unwarranted use . There is a reason that pre-menopausal women have a lower incidence of heart attacks than men and after menopause the rates are similar. Clinical studies indicate that estrogen is cardiovascular protective. Supressing E for the sake of a tiny increase in T is foolish.
Arimidex is a lot more likely cause damage to the cardiovascular system thru excessive and unwarranted use . There is a reason that pre-menopausal women have a lower incidence of heart attacks than men and after menopause the rates are similar. Clinical studies indicate that estrogen is cardiovascular protective. Supressing E for the sake of a tiny increase in T is foolish.
legalmandickslap
New Member
neither do i, and i have been actively looking for a while.
my experience with hcg:
tried 500iu eod first, got my T to 540 ng/dL and E to 41 pg/ml
750iu eod, and 1/2 arimidex twice weekly got my T to 719 ng/dL and E to <20 pg/ml,
now topping off with 4 pumps of Androgel ed. and considering adjusting arimidex to 1/4 twice weekly, or maybe just 1/2 once per week.
I would not count out the possibility of leydig cell desensitization. Dr. Shippen, Dr. Scally, and Dr. John all agree that too much HCG for too long can cause desensitization to occur.
