Does HCG effect libido?

[pmgamer18]

I need a lot of Testosterone and 5 years ago after being on TRT 23 yrs I find out I am not Primary but I am Secondary meaning I am Hypopituitary do to a head injury some 27 yrs ago.

Dr. John aka SWALE here helped me to get my Dr. to let me do HCG this is how we figured out I am not Primary. My Total T levels after the 15th shot of 500IU's of HCG 3 x's a week doubled.

I had testis the size of small grapes and when is added the HCG they hurt for the first week but it was a low pain.

Today I need a lot of T I do a shot of Depo T 80 mgs every 3 days and I do 400 IU's of HCG the 2 days each in between my T shots.

Doing this keeps me leveled and holds down my Estradiol levels I get night time and morning wood every morning and want sex everyday but i am 65 and my wife could care less this is life.

I keep my Estradiol down using .25 mgs of Arimidex every 2 to 3 days I gage this need by my night time and morning wood. You need to get the pills of Arimidex and cut them into 4 parts taking more this this amount can drive you to low and kill your wood and sex life. You can buy Arimidex from the ADC at this link.
http://www.alldaychemist.com/search.php
Also doing this helps keep my blood from getting to thick.
Here is a cut and paste on what I tell men to not go to low on arimidex.
========================================================================
What I found is if you go to low taking arimidex, it's the length of time your to low, if your too low say for 8 weeks it can take your body a longer time to make more Estradiol. Bottom line is to know how not to go to low. Keep a log on your dose and how you feel men going to low can't get it up taking Viagra. I went to low when I first tried Arimidex and did not know about going to low or how one feels to low, so I was low a good 8 weeks. I did not know I was low until my next labs.

The best gage I have found to control your Estradiol levels is to gage your night time and morning wood. At good levels or what I call the sweet spot you get your night time and morning wood back so strong it will wake you up and you can hang a coat on it.

Most men do good taking .25 mgs or 1/4 of a 1mg. pill, I use a pill cutter to cut the small pill in half then I stand it on the cut end and use a single edge razor to cut this in half. A good way to take arimidex is by how high your levels are. I tested over 90 pg/ml so we tried doing .5 mgs every other day after 8 weeks my next set of labs showed it did not move below 90, test said >90. So we did .5 mgs. every day in about 2 weeks I got some strong night time and morning wood back after not having them for many yrs.

I kept doing this dose and in 8 weeks my next set of labs said <20 back in the day labs were like this they did not have to good labs we have today they could not read lower the 20. My Dr. told me this looks to low to stop taking the Arimidex. The one thing I noticed was my wood stopped and stopping the Arimidex my wood came back in about 7 weeks my next test at 8 weeks was 24 pg/ml. So we went back on the Arimidex but the Dr. told me to take .5 mgs every 3 days I was on this dose not a week and lost wood. This is when I figured out going to low you lose wood. And the longer your too low the longer it takes to get levels back up.

I stopped the arimidex right away and got my wood back in 4 days. I then after playing with the dose for a time found the best dose is .25mgs every 2 to 3 days.

So lets say your labs are less the 50 pg/ml if your take .5 mgs you can go down so dam fast your miss the sweet spot of your wood and go to low. It's best with lower levels 50 and under to do less Arimidex .25mgs every 2 days if later your lose wood when it comes back go to every 3 days.

I have found estradiol is the hardest hormone to control, it goes up or down from month to month some times I need .25mgs every 2 days other times I need .25mgs everyday most of the time I do well on every 3 days.

So between wood and labs I do great and so do most of the men I have told this to. I keep a log on how much I am taking and how I feel. Doing this and reading back in my log I was able to tell when I was going to high or to low my Dr. lets me dose my arimidex by how I feel.

Over the yrs. I have posted this story until I am blue in the face.

As I mentioned in prior post, I do believe my E2 remains pretty high and always out of optimal proportion. I am always extremely concerned about possible Leydig desensitization. I am getting extremely poor response from the last batch I purchased. It is the greek brand and certainly appears legit, however, I would def have to wonder based on the response I have been getting. I am wondering if that stuff is so delicate that it could have been damaged in the mail, via heat, or xray radiation. Have you ever heard of this??

Here is how I respond to HCG, perhaps you could offer some advice and insight. My first experience with HCG was after 8 weeks of continuous Testosterone supplementation(my first) in a steroid cycle fasion. The T doses ranged from 400/wk to as much as 800mgs/wk prior to this first dose. There was considerable atrophy starting to be evident by this eigth week. I dosed the HCG in (2) 2500iu doses 7-10 days apart. I got an excellent response and the boys blew up and hurt like blueballs. It was awesome. The "swollen" part lasted about 4 days tops, and then on with life and my high T doses for ten more weeks. Again the HCG always yielded the same. It was only in the past year that I started with the steady and small dosing philosophy or 750ius E3D, or even as steady and small as 250 EOD. I dont seem to get a response of the "swelling and sore" feeling so much like this, but I also think I dont suffer from the atrophy I should be incurring considering the high test protocol of the last year. So I dont really know. Perhaps its not the HCG and I just never did small doses with other batches?? I get frustrated from time to time on this protocol and blow it out to see if I am indeed at full testicular capacity. For example, about a month ago, I mixed a 5000iu into (3) doses. I administered them over a ten day period. (Again this is so that I can confirm full size already achieved when I cant be sure at regular dosing.) I dont get a response until the third dose and then I do still get the swelling and blueball like pain, and it lasts about 4 days. Can you help to explain this. Do I have to get all the way to that third dose because they are already close to normal capacity and it is hence taking more to get the reaction.?? Am I partially desisitized? or on the way? Keep in mind that on this last example, there was not signigicant increase in size resulting (as expected), But they did get full and firmer feeling with the slight pain of course. And as always it seems that most of the swelling is associated with "the goods" behind the balls. Portion associated with finished product sperm storage, handling, and delivery...?? Any thoughts please. Does this all sound like a normal healthy response. And should I not feel anything when taking regularly..?

 

[zkt]

Desensitization isnt the same as receptor down-regulation.
Desensitization occurs in type 2 diabetes. But the receptor type is not the same.
The LH receptor is a G-coupled protein serpentine receptor. A long protein molecule that crosses the cellular membrane 7 times. The LH receptor sites in the protein exist outside the membrane and when activated cause the molecule to effect the genetic transcription within the cell. As I understand the situation, the cell creates the receptor protein quantitavely inversely to the activation level, is constantly changing, and thus maintains homeostasis.
The insulin receptor doesnt works defferently and actual desensitization is possible.
A lot of this stuff is on Wiki and appears copied from the medical texts for those who want to discuss it in depth.

I would not count out the possibility of leydig cell desensitization. Dr. Shippen, Dr. Scally, and Dr. John all agree that too much HCG for too long can cause desensitization to occur.

 

[BBC3]

Thanks for the info. I have heard you on several occasions and appreciate the input. Dont get me wrong, I dont think you could say these things enough. I have never seen you post the method in such detail. I tried to guage by your techniques with my suspect ADEX and will try again with new resource. I am assuming you have had good luck on this road. I have heard of it, just never been there. Thank you.

I need a lot of Testosterone and 5 years ago after being on TRT 23 yrs I find out I am not Primary but I am Secondary meaning I am Hypopituitary do to a head injury some 27 yrs ago.

Dr. John aka SWALE here helped me to get my Dr. to let me do HCG this is how we figured out I am not Primary. My Total T levels after the 15th shot of 500IU's of HCG 3 x's a week doubled.

I had testis the size of small grapes and when is added the HCG they hurt for the first week but it was a low pain.

Today I need a lot of T I do a shot of Depo T 80 mgs every 3 days and I do 400 IU's of HCG the 2 days each in between my T shots.

Doing this keeps me leveled and holds down my Estradiol levels I get night time and morning wood every morning and want sex everyday but i am 65 and my wife could care less this is life.

I keep my Estradiol down using .25 mgs of Arimidex every 2 to 3 days I gage this need by my night time and morning wood. You need to get the pills of Arimidex and cut them into 4 parts taking more this this amount can drive you to low and kill your wood and sex life. You can buy Arimidex from the ADC at this link.
http://www.alldaychemist.com/search.php
Also doing this helps keep my blood from getting to thick.
Here is a cut and paste on what I tell men to not go to low on arimidex.
========================================================================
What I found is if you go to low taking arimidex, it's the length of time your to low, if your too low say for 8 weeks it can take your body a longer time to make more Estradiol. Bottom line is to know how not to go to low. Keep a log on your dose and how you feel men going to low can't get it up taking Viagra. I went to low when I first tried Arimidex and did not know about going to low or how one feels to low, so I was low a good 8 weeks. I did not know I was low until my next labs.

The best gage I have found to control your Estradiol levels is to gage your night time and morning wood. At good levels or what I call the sweet spot you get your night time and morning wood back so strong it will wake you up and you can hang a coat on it.

Most men do good taking .25 mgs or 1/4 of a 1mg. pill, I use a pill cutter to cut the small pill in half then I stand it on the cut end and use a single edge razor to cut this in half. A good way to take arimidex is by how high your levels are. I tested over 90 pg/ml so we tried doing .5 mgs every other day after 8 weeks my next set of labs showed it did not move below 90, test said >90. So we did .5 mgs. every day in about 2 weeks I got some strong night time and morning wood back after not having them for many yrs.

I kept doing this dose and in 8 weeks my next set of labs said <20 back in the day labs were like this they did not have to good labs we have today they could not read lower the 20. My Dr. told me this looks to low to stop taking the Arimidex. The one thing I noticed was my wood stopped and stopping the Arimidex my wood came back in about 7 weeks my next test at 8 weeks was 24 pg/ml. So we went back on the Arimidex but the Dr. told me to take .5 mgs every 3 days I was on this dose not a week and lost wood. This is when I figured out going to low you lose wood. And the longer your too low the longer it takes to get levels back up.

I stopped the arimidex right away and got my wood back in 4 days. I then after playing with the dose for a time found the best dose is .25mgs every 2 to 3 days.

So lets say your labs are less the 50 pg/ml if your take .5 mgs you can go down so dam fast your miss the sweet spot of your wood and go to low. It's best with lower levels 50 and under to do less Arimidex .25mgs every 2 days if later your lose wood when it comes back go to every 3 days.

I have found estradiol is the hardest hormone to control, it goes up or down from month to month some times I need .25mgs every 2 days other times I need .25mgs everyday most of the time I do well on every 3 days.

So between wood and labs I do great and so do most of the men I have told this to. I keep a log on how much I am taking and how I feel. Doing this and reading back in my log I was able to tell when I was going to high or to low my Dr. lets me dose my arimidex by how I feel.

Over the yrs. I have posted this story until I am blue in the face.

 

[BBC3]

I am getting confused. Are you saying that both Desensitization and/or receptor down-regulation of the leydigs could occur in the testis. And are you also saying that type II diabetes can cause physical changes to the testes??

Desensitization isnt the same as receptor down-regulation.
Desensitization occurs in type 2 diabetes. But the receptor type is not the same.
The LH receptor is a G-coupled protein serpentine receptor. A long protein molecule that crosses the cellular membrane 7 times. The LH receptor sites in the protein exist outside the membrane and when activated cause the molecule to effect the genetic transcription within the cell. As I understand the situation, the cell creates the receptor protein quantitavely inversely to the activation level, is constantly changing, and thus maintains homeostasis.
The insulin receptor doesnt works defferently and actual desensitization is possible.
A lot of this stuff is on Wiki and appears copied from the medical texts for those who want to discuss it in depth.

 

[terresw]

Desensitization isnt the same as receptor down-regulation.
Desensitization occurs in type 2 diabetes. But the receptor type is not the same.
The LH receptor is a G-coupled protein serpentine receptor. A long protein molecule that crosses the cellular membrane 7 times. The LH receptor sites in the protein exist outside the membrane and when activated cause the molecule to effect the genetic transcription within the cell. As I understand the situation, the cell creates the receptor protein quantitavely inversely to the activation level, is constantly changing, and thus maintains homeostasis.
The insulin receptor doesnt works defferently and actual desensitization is possible.
A lot of this stuff is on Wiki and appears copied from the medical texts for those who want to discuss it in depth.

So what your saying is; you can shock your testes with ridiclios amts of hcg, and there are no consequence of desensitization?

I don't think you are right; BUT I REALLY HOPE YOU ARE.

 

[richard0460]

Thanks for the comments on my first post. I want to post my profile and anti aging protocol for greater clarity. I appreciate any comments you can give me.

62, screenwriter, bball, tennis player, weights 2x week. 6-2 190.

Original Symptoms Before Hormones: Jan 09 No gains from weights--Mild Muscle wasting, loss of sexual desire, ED, intermittent back pain ( 5 years) from weak muscles in legs/back (physical therapist said). Without hormones Total Test 300 Serum T 12 E 25

Intervention: Jan 09 started in addition to Phys Therapy-- 1 gram 2x's a day T gel from compound pharmacy, HGH sub cu. Jan-May 09 amazing results! With Phys Therapy and T and HGH. All back pain gone! Felt like 25 year old with great wood in morning, noon and night. Great orgasms. Muscle mass was growing (gained 10 pounds in muscle), lost an inch of belly fat (I dont have much but still very cool).

June 09 sexual desire began to lesson and occasional erection problems. E went up to 50 from my normal 25-30. Total T 700 Serum 14. Doc put me on Arimidex .25 every three days. Erections and desire were cool again for about a month or so and then same problem occured. I raised Arimizex to .50 and again sex got better but then trailed off quickly. One consistent issue is that my serum T goes up very little despite total T going up high.

Aug 09 Doc tried 1 1/2 gram of T gel twice a day which did nothing for me sexually. The doc seemed to run out of answers so I changed to a new doc and joined this forum.

Oct 09 New Doc took me off all hormones for two weeks. I actually felt a little more sexually but not much but physical strength declined and I was tired all the time for a week. After two weeks the doc prescribed 2500 of HCG last week and yesterday to try to jump start the testis. Physical strength has definitely returned. I had awesome strength playing bball last week but almost no response sexually. Occasional weak erections but not the wonderful morning wood and almost no desire even when touched by my partner who is younger and could not be more desirable. Concerned that one forum member thought that much HCG might cause permanent damage to testes.

Thanks for any suggestions you might have to improve my program. Do you have a specific protocol you would suggest I check out-- with cycle lengths, hormone types etc. I am committed to playing in the California Senior games with my team next year and continuing to enjoy sex.
Richard

 

[terresw]

Doing 2500 IUS last week did not damage you. Don't worry. In fact it probably brought your balls back online. Yet that high of a dosage can also raise estrogen so high and kill your libido.

Your 62. Your testicles probably are not capable of producing large amts of test with just HCG. In your case you may need to be on TEST Gel with HCG + A little bit or arimidex probably.

Of course I may be completely wrong. Only blood tests can confrim. DId you have your LH and FSH tested before you began treatment?

The crisler protocol is TEST Gel everyday + 250 ius of HCG every third day and possible arimidex if you are having problems with estrogen. .25 mg of Adex eod or e3d etc..........

You need to get labs and determine where your problem is.

Thanks for the comments on my first post. I want to post my profile and anti aging protocol for greater clarity. I appreciate any comments you can give me.

62, screenwriter, bball, tennis player, weights 2x week. 6-2 190.

Original Symptoms Before Hormones: Jan 09 No gains from weights--Mild Muscle wasting, loss of sexual desire, ED, intermittent back pain ( 5 years) from weak muscles in legs/back (physical therapist said). Without hormones Total Test 300 Serum T 12 E 25

Intervention: Jan 09 started in addition to Phys Therapy-- 1 gram 2x's a day T gel from compound pharmacy, HGH sub cu. Jan-May 09 amazing results! With Phys Therapy and T and HGH. All back pain gone! Felt like 25 year old with great wood in morning, noon and night. Great orgasms. Muscle mass was growing (gained 10 pounds in muscle), lost an inch of belly fat (I dont have much but still very cool).

June 09 sexual desire began to lesson and occasional erection problems. E went up to 50 from my normal 25-30. Total T 700 Serum 14. Doc put me on Arimidex .25 every three days. Erections and desire were cool again for about a month or so and then same problem occured. I raised Arimizex to .50 and again sex got better but then trailed off quickly. One consistent issue is that my serum T goes up very little despite total T going up high.

Aug 09 Doc tried 1 1/2 gram of T gel twice a day which did nothing for me sexually. The doc seemed to run out of answers so I changed to a new doc and joined this forum.

Oct 09 New Doc took me off all hormones for two weeks. I actually felt a little more sexually but not much but physical strength declined and I was tired all the time for a week. After two weeks the doc prescribed 2500 of HCG last week and yesterday to try to jump start the testis. Physical strength has definitely returned. I had awesome strength playing bball last week but almost no response sexually. Occasional weak erections but not the wonderful morning wood and almost no desire even when touched by my partner who is younger and could not be more desirable. Concerned that one forum member thought that much HCG might cause permanent damage to testes.

Thanks for any suggestions you might have to improve my program. Do you have a specific protocol you would suggest I check out-- with cycle lengths, hormone types etc. I am committed to playing in the California Senior games with my team next year and continuing to enjoy sex.
Richard