endurance/lactic adaptation, caloric requirements

[Drachus]

In the vein of "growth" from hypertrophy work, it's my understanding that without the use of drugs, optimal growth requires full glycogen/ATP stores in the muscle, and a surplus of calories, 500 above maintainance or higher being a safe bet.

When it comes to endurance or lactic threshhold adaptations though, are the caloric requirements for optimal progress(I hesitate to call it growth) roughly the same?Obviously a higher carb(and possibly creatine) intake would be required since greater stores of APT and muscle glycogen are going to be used up during training.

If anyone would mind painting me a picture of the adaptations occuring from this training, that would help.

Thanks,
D

 

[greyowl]

In the vein of "growth" from hypertrophy work, it's my understanding that without the use of drugs, optimal growth requires full glycogen/ATP stores in the muscle, and a surplus of calories, 500 above maintainance or higher being a safe bet.

When it comes to endurance or lactic threshhold adaptations though, are the caloric requirements for optimal progress(I hesitate to call it growth) roughly the same?Obviously a higher carb(and possibly creatine) intake would be required since greater stores of APT and muscle glycogen are going to be used up during training.

If anyone would mind painting me a picture of the adaptations occuring from this training, that would help.

Thanks,
D

Not entirely sure what you're getting at. Note that you can take APT directly via a buccal spray, it's not that expensive. I've tried it and it actually seems to make a difference, altho I tend to be skeptical about supplements.

As for lactic acid build-up, there's a growing concensus that this actually does not play a role in DOMS, if that's what you're trying to figure out.

 

[Drachus]

nah, what I am trying to figure out is the caloric requirements to make the adapations associated with endurance related training, using the analogy of hyertrophy growth as an example. for instance

tension load/microtrauma+protein+calories for growth=larger muscle fibers. if muscle glycogen and atp stores are depleted, your body will partition calories from carbs into filling muscle glycogen before the fiber growth starts, as growth is an energy intensive process. At least thats what I understand from lurking over at the bodyrecomp forums.

So, does the same hold true for high rep lactic training(20+ rep sets, sprinting/jogging), that the muscle needs to have full energy stores before it starts working on increasing your lactic threshhol and V02max, or is that not the case, and those adaptations will still take place in a low calorie diet.

or put simply, while on a strict diet with low carbs, is my lactic threshold stuckwhere it is, or is it still going to improve?

 

[jonny21]

IMO low CHO is not appropriate for endurance training/competition. I would think that training intensity and duration would play more of a role r/t lactic acid threshhold. That said, duration wil be greatly decreased with diminished glycogen stores. Fatty acids will not be used as a result of increased lactic acid buildup, so you will be relying on gluconeogenesis once the glycogen stores have been depleted and that process cannot keep up with the demand.

To answer your question, while on low carbs you probably will not improve your lactic acid threshhold becasue you will not have adequated CHO to support the intensity or duration of exercise necessary. The exercise that you listed, 20+ rep sets, sprinting/jogging, would hardly be considered endurance exercising though. Unless of course you are doing any of these for long periods of time @ >60% VO2 max

 

[Drachus]

thanks Johnny, thats my answer then I guess I'll be doing a partial glycogen depletion to start off , and low impact cardio throughout.