Every male should be on TRT

[Deleted member 59947]

This channel is interesting:

Weight Lifting Dermatologist


This guy gathered a few endos to discuss TRT topics, among which Dr Keith Nichols.
They are big proponents of scrotum transdermal applications for stable T levels and rocket high DHT levels.


Their main position is that: given the amount of xenoestrogens in litteraly everything today, most men's androgen receptors are saturated and can't receive androgens properly.
So even if you have T levels in the 800s today, you are most likely only receiving the equivalent androgenic activity of someone who was in the 200s back in the 1950s.

Their conclusion: don't go by number, but by feel. If it takes 300mg of test per week to feel good and TT levels in the 2000s, then that's what it takes and should be on this year round.


@Michael Scally MD @Dr JIM does that theory hold any water?

 

[phenominal34]

Extremely interested in the feedback on this topic ... thanks

 

[Neewbiest guy]

Extremely interested in the feedback on this topic ... thanks

Myself included. With levels that high over a long period of time, wouldn't you run the risk of increasing your red blood cell count so high that it would leave you extremely susceptible to heart problems?

 

[weighted chinup]

Their conclusion: don't go by number, but by feel. If it takes 300mg of test per week to feel good and TT levels in the 2000s, then that's what it takes and should be on this year round.

That's an interesting take.

I think it's a bad idea. Here is why:

[1] RBC/Hematology will be almost definitely become an issue for those who are susceptible. I think the risk of this is over-stated when it comes to stroke, I think people are basing that off what happened to those cyclists taking EPO. The real concern is with the long term effects to the heart of high HCT and complications from high RBC's. These can take years to manifest in some, faster in some, and for some will never be an issue.

[2] Bad for people who are bodybuilding because having sizable difference in troughs (cruise/trt) and crests (blasts) will potentiate progress. This will diminish that. Using a high TRT because you feel good on it just reduces the amplitude of the blast.

[3] If there is one thing I learned from this board is that there is a significant number of people who use AAS or even TRT to address complex emotional problems and never end up feeling better no matter what. The AAS just complicates things further. These people will probably never feel good no matter how high they go, the problem lay elsewhere.

[4] Most people have dogshit genetics when it comes to tolerating AAS long term. For these people, going beyond TRT doses year round can present problems with lipids, BP, and overall function of the heart which is NOT something that will show up on bloodwork.

 

[Deleted member 59947]

That's an interesting take.

I think it's a bad idea. Here is why:

[1] RBC/Hematology will be almost definitely become an issue for those who are susceptible. I think the risk of this is over-stated when it comes to stroke, I think people are basing that off what happened to those cyclists taking EPO. The real concern is with the long term effects to the heart of high HCT and complications from high RBC's. These can take years to manifest in some, faster in some, and for some will never be an issue.

[2] Bad for people who are bodybuilding because having sizable difference in troughs (cruise/trt) and crests (blasts) will potentiate progress. This will diminish that. Using a high TRT because you feel good on it just reduces the amplitude of the blast.

[3] If there is one thing I learned from this board is that there is a significant number of people who use AAS or even TRT to address complex emotional problems and never end up feeling better no matter what. The AAS just complicates things further. These people will probably never feel good no matter how high they go, the problem lay elsewhere.

[4] Most people have dogshit genetics when it comes to tolerating AAS long term. For these people, going beyond TRT doses year round can present problems with lipids, BP, and overall function of the heart which is NOT something that will show up on bloodwork.

Great points. Not agreeing with number 2.

Not sure how having more of a difference potentiates progress.
If the blast dose is reduced to make for the higher cruise dose, maybe. Is that what you meant?

 

[johntt44]

Myself included. With levels that high over a long period of time, wouldn't you run the risk of increasing your red blood cell count so high that it would leave you extremely susceptible to heart problems?

At 250mg wk for the last 5 yrs, I've had no rise on anything in bloodwork. Throw something else in though and rbc, etc creeps up slightly.

 

[Neewbiest guy]

At 250mg wk for the last 5 yrs, I've had no rise on anything in bloodwork. Throw something else in though and rbc, etc creeps up slightly.

Good to know! I just recently got put on TRT by my endo. Waiting a few more weeks to see what my average baselines will be before doing a cycle. My only other concern is how I'm gonna do this cycle and still have normal ranges when I go back for the next bloods. Although from what I'm told once baselines are established, bloods are usually done every six months.

 

[dd340]

This channel is interesting:

Weight Lifting Dermatologist


This guy gathered a few endos to discuss TRT topics, among which Dr Keith Nichols.
They are big proponents of scrotum transdermal applications for stable T levels and rocket high DHT levels.


Their main position is that: given the amount of xenoestrogens in litteraly everything today, most men's androgen receptors are saturated and can't receive androgens properly.
So even if you have T levels in the 800s today, you are most likely only receiving the equivalent androgenic activity of someone who was in the 200s back in the 1950s.

Their conclusion: don't go by number, but by feel. If it takes 300mg of test per week to feel good and TT levels in the 2000s, then that's what it takes and should be on this year round.


@Michael Scally MD @Dr JIM does that theory hold any water?

I think these guys definitely have a lot better understanding of hormones and how to treat men for health purposes. You can also join their Facebook group. Anyone considering TRT should join and completely ignore the “advice” that is spewed on this site. The typical advice of donating blood and using an AI is garbage advice and should be ignored. Their group is made of of multiple doctors which includes Dr Eric Serrano, who is highly regarded among even the bodybuilding community.

 

[luissp]

The typical advice of donating blood and using an AI is garbage advice and should be ignored..

How do you deal with high hematocrit and hemoglobin if you don`t donate blood, or at least do phlebotomies ?

 

[Calipower]

I think these guys definitely have a lot better understanding of hormones and how to treat men for health purposes. You can also join their Facebook group. Anyone considering TRT should join and completely ignore the “advice” that is spewed on this site. The typical advice of donating blood and using an AI is garbage advice and should be ignored. Their group is made of of multiple doctors which includes Dr Eric Serrano, who is highly regarded among even the bodybuilding community.

Do you know the name of the Facebook group or have. A link?

 

[dd340]

How do you deal with high hematocrit and hemoglobin if you don`t donate blood, or at least do phlebotomies ?

You don’t need to do anything unless your platelets get high. People who live at high altitudes have much higher hematocrit levels and they don’t have higher incidence of heart disease or heart attacks. I see a hemotologist on a regular basis due to leukaemia and she wants mine as high as it can get. My platelet count has stayed normal.

 

[dd340]

Do you know the name of the Facebook group or have. A link?

Do a search for the lifting dermatologist. Once you join that group he will suggest the optimization group.

 

[The Terminator]

They’re probably trying to push their business..I mean come on every male should be on trt and at high doses? These guys are ped drug dealers with rx pads imo. Feeling good isn’t the same as healthy, you can use methamphetamine everyday to feel good but it’s not very healthy.

 

[Neewbiest guy]

you can use methamphetamine everyday to feel good but it’s not very healthy.

100% agree with this statement!

 

[The Terminator]

100% agree with this statement!

I have a bit more trust in drs that test early morning levels a dozen times and then try fixing it first before prescribing trt. Most people here wouldn’t like that but at least these drs are making sure it’s consistently low and then using trt as a last resort.

I’d be more worried about things that don’t show up on blood tests taking high dose trt, like structural abnormalities of the heart.

 

[Deleted member 59947]

I have a bit more trust in drs that test early morning levels a dozen times and then try fixing it first before prescribing trt. Most people here wouldn’t like that but at least these drs are making sure it’s consistently low and then using trt as a last resort.

I’d be more worried about things that don’t show up on blood tests taking high dose trt, like structural abnormalities of the heart.

The other thing that doesn't show up in your bloodtests is how well the testosterone floating in your blood attaches to the androgen receptor.

It supposedly doesn't attach that well, given that the receptor is most likely clogged with environmental xenoestrogens.

Hence the need for higher dose testosterone than what's considered physiological

 

[The Terminator]

The other thing that doesn't show up in your bloodtests is how well the testosterone floating in your blood attaches to the androgen receptor.

It supposedly doesn't attach that well, given that the receptor is most likely clogged with environmental xenoestrogens.

Hence the need for higher dose testosterone than what's considered physiological

It sounds like it’s all conjecture tho, I mean do these doctors have evidence that androgens aren’t activating their receptors?

 

[Deleted member 59947]

It sounds like it’s all conjecture tho, I mean do these doctors have evidence that androgens aren’t activating their receptors?

They go by their practice experience which shows a higher level of well being and physical performance in most their patients as a result of an increased dose.

 

[The Terminator]

They go by their practice experience which shows a higher level of well being and physical performance in most their patients as a result of an increased dose.

Like I said before feeling “good” and healthy aren’t necessarily the same thing, same with enhanced performance. You could use several grams of aas and feel good and perform well until your heart or arteries start giving out.

 

[camy9000]

I always wondered peoples opinion of their views i keep a open mind
but dont know how safe long term their protocals are i was reading in another forum of a member who was feeling great running high dose of the sctrotal t cream they suggest but after 2 years things went down hill for him