Feedback needed for first cycle

[imperator]

Hi all, this is my first actual thread after lurking on and off for a while.
I'm just getting started and looking for feedback for my first 'cycle'.
The goal is to gain some mass and strength, without many side effects.
Constructive criticism and optimization are very welcomed, thanks!

Current plan
LGD-4033 10mg/day for 8 weeks
MK-677 10mg/day for 8 weeks (is this low?)
Raloxifene 30mg/day for 8 weeks (60mg first 10 days)
NAC 600mg/day for organ support for 8 weeks

PCT plan
Clomid for 4 weeks, 50/50/25/25
Sup3r PCT 10caps/day

Spoiler: ingredients

Vitamin B6 (Pyridoxine HCL)	150mg	8,000%
Magnesium (as Magnesium Oxide)	450mg	107%
Zinc (as Zinc Aspartate)	35mg	318.5%
Fadogia Agrestis (stem) Extract (extracted to contain a full spectrum of alkaloids, sapnonins, anthraquinones, & flavonoids)	1,200mg	**
Bulbine Natalensis (stem) Extract (leaf)	700mg	**
E.Cottonii Extract 10:1	600mg	**
Horny Goat Weed (Epimedium) Extract (leaf)	500mg	**
Mucuna pruriens [Seed] (Standardized to Minium 99% L-Dopa)	300mg	**
Trans-Resveratrol 50%	200mg	**
Purified Shilajit (PrimaVie) Fulvic Acids & equivalents ≥ 60%, total Dibenzo-apyrones ≥ 0.30%	200mg	**
NAC (N-Acetyl-L-Cysteine)	150mg	**
Elimistane™ Luteolin [from orange extact (fruit)]	100mg	**
Quercetin	60mg	**
Bioperine® Black Pepper (Piper nigrum) [Fruit] (Standardized to 95% Piperine]	5mg	**

Basically, I will use LGD-4033 for strength and mass (can't go RAD140 due to hair issues), and MK-677 for GH and sleep, hair, and skin quality.

For that period of time and while I'm at it I'm adding Raloxifene to reduce some of my gynecomastia (very minimal so it should solve it), but I'm unsure if it has any bad interactions with anything else on the list.

I'm also unsure if NAC is needed but I don't think it'd have any downsides (?).

Regarding the PCT plan, a lot of people say it's not needed for such a 'cycle' (if it can even be called a cycle), but I believe I should use it if not at least have it at hand.

Also before anyone jumps on me about SARMs, that's currently my only choice until I move out (that's also why no test base!) and I also consider it a good stepping stone for a beginner. Been doing various types of training and exercise for about 2 years now, with no specific focus; rather been focusing on building a foundation when it comes to mass, strength, endurance, flexibility, form, and whatnot.

My current stats are:
- 24y/o
- 177cm (5'10)
- 75kg (165 lb)

Thanks in advance for taking the time to read this, and hopefully you've got some constructive criticism for my first-ever plan. Anything helps really, I'm just getting started and need some more knowledge. Always looking for the safest and cleanest ways to do things! Feel free to ask me anything.

 

[bornSkinny]

You seem rather sure the ralox will fix your minor pre-existing gyno. Why?

If the gyno issue is separate from the “cycle” you want to run why do it at the same time?

 

[imperator]

You seem rather sure the ralox will fix your minor pre-existing gyno. Why?

If the gyno issue is separate from the “cycle” you want to run why do it at the same time?

You're right, I could do it at a later time.
I'll keep that in mind and probably do it sometimes after!

Thank you.

 

[bornSkinny]

If you’re taking anything for the first time, limiting the number of variables can help you determine what’s doing what. Especially useful if there’s an issue.

Also I wouldn’t assume Ralox will do anything for your pre existing gyno. It could, but it also may do nothing and Ralox is not without risk for long term use. I know Derek from MPMD told you it will work. But maybe it won’t. Keep that in mind.

 

[imperator]

If you’re taking anything for the first time, limiting the number of variables can help you determine what’s doing what.

This is something I usually do, forgot this time.
Valuable input, thanks.

 

[ripper908]

This is a first "cycle"?

I'm assuming those are sarms?

what happened to just running test and going from there. God I feel old

 

[mass gain]

This is a first "cycle"?

I'm assuming those are sarms?

what happened to just running test and going from there. God I feel old

Old maybe but yeah I think standard advice still is to go with a test only cycle to start.

Fuck the LGD and MK OP. Just get some test cyp and run for a good 8 weeks at 300 to 500 mg per week. There is no rush here as you are young.

Later on look into generic HGH and use that instead of MK.

Edit: Actually, you are pretty young and not very heavy for your height. I bet you can make some serious gains without any AAS if you have proper diet and training.
Look around here for diet and training advice. You might be several years off from really needing any AAS. I wouldn't even consider it until you get closer to 200 pounds.

If you think your total test is low have your doc check or pull bloods yourself through LabsMD or PrivateMD.

 

[imperator]

This is a first "cycle"?

I'm assuming those are sarms?

what happened to just running test and going from there. God I feel old

Yes, that's why I put it in quotation marks in the post itself and then later on mentioned it as well. Everything in its time, just logistically cannot do more at the moment. I know it's probably not the best place to ask, but I'm doing it in case someone has some insight for this specifically. Thank you though!

Old maybe but yeah I think standard advice still is to go with a test only cycle to start.

Fuck the LGD and MK OP. Just get some test cyp and run for a good 8 weeks at 300 to 500 mg per week.

Later on look into generic HGH and use that instead of MK.

Edit: Actually, you are pretty young. I bet you can make some serious gains without any AAS if you have proper diet and training. Look around here for diet and training advice. You might be several years off from really needing any AAS.

If you think your total test is low have your doc check or pull bloods yourself through LabsMD or PrivateMD.

Appreciate your post, will take into consideration. Thanks

 

[mass gain]

Yes, that's why I put it in quotation marks in the post itself and then later on mentioned it as well. Everything in its time, just logistically cannot do more at the moment. I know it's probably not the best place to ask, but I'm doing it in case someone has some insight for this specifically. Thank you though!



Appreciate your post, will take into consideration. Thanks

Edited my post a few more times with a little more info if you want to check again.

 

[Jdill75]

I would throw this BS out, learn how to gain muscle naturally first. At 5'10", 165lbs and 24 years old you defiantly haven't come close to peaking naturally.

The problem these days is guys rely on the drugs to do the work instead of learning their limits to perform work. This is 97% of the iron game and a mantra you carry through life.

As ripper stated, nothing wrong with plain old vanilla Test at 200-300mgs a week for your first run. If your not making gains week after week on this simple cycle, go back to Part 1 and learn how your body responds to different stimulus, re-evaluate your diet and look at your training approach.

The best growth will be the stimulus your body has not yet experienced. This is not something you master in a year or decade, but rather in a lifetime

 

[imperator]

I would throw this BS out, learn how to gain muscle naturally first. At 5'10", 165lbs and 24 years old you defiantly haven't come close to peaking naturally.

The problem these days is guys rely on the drugs to do the work instead of learning their limits to perform work. This is 97% of the iron game and a mantra you carry through life.

As ripper stated, nothing wrong with plain old vanilla Test at 200-300mgs a week for your first run. If your not making gains week after week on this simple cycle, go back to Part 1 and learn how your body responds to different stimulus, re-evaluate your diet and look at your training approach.

The best growth will be the stimulus your body has not yet experienced. This is not something you master in a year or decade, but rather in a lifetime

Thank you.

 

[Rido]

If you’re taking anything for the first time, limiting the number of variables can help you determine what’s doing what. Especially useful if there’s an issue.

Also I wouldn’t assume Ralox will do anything for your pre existing gyno. It could, but it also may do nothing and Ralox is not without risk for long term use. I know Derek from MPMD told you it will work. But maybe it won’t. Keep that in mind.

I do know someone that stated it did result in a reduction. I think he said it was maybe 30-50 percent.

Raloxifene can be pricey, and we all know surgery is king

 

[bornSkinny]

I do know someone that stated it did result in a reduction. I think he said it was maybe 30-50 percent.

Raloxifene can be pricey, and we all know surgery is king

I’m not even saying it’s not worth doing. Actually I do think it’s probably worth trying. I had a rather odd experience with it myself though.

I do think if you’re in this situation I would say two things. Temper your expectations. It might not be the miracle you’re hoping for especially for established gyno tissue. And any medication is not without the risk of potential side effects and even harm. So keep those things in mind going in.

 

[Rido]

I’m not even saying it’s not worth doing. Actually I do think it’s probably worth trying. I had a rather odd experience with it myself though.

I do think if you’re in this situation I would say two things. Temper your expectations. It might not be the miracle you’re hoping for especially for established gyno tissue. And any medication is not without the risk of potential side effects and even harm. So keep those things in mind going in.

If I could just hit a x like button "I would, but I agree with you.

 

[imperator]

I do know someone that stated it did result in a reduction. I think he said it was maybe 30-50 percent.

Raloxifene can be pricey, and we all know surgery is king

I’m not even saying it’s not worth doing. Actually I do think it’s probably worth trying. I had a rather odd experience with it myself though.

I do think if you’re in this situation I would say two things. Temper your expectations. It might not be the miracle you’re hoping for especially for established gyno tissue. And any medication is not without the risk of potential side effects and even harm. So keep those things in mind going in.

I'm at a stage in which no normal person would observe it in the slightest, but I do and I don't really care if it works or not. As far as I'm aware there's virtually no downsides to trying it and is cheap as well (I was about to ask why you say it's pricy when I only see it cheap everywhere).

 

[Jdill75]

Thank you.

It might sound like some old man jibberish, but this is what it comes down to. You learn to love the work and this is what you become, this is what defines you later in life. Some of my fondest memories of lifting was being 12-18 years old and slaving for every little gain I could squeeze out. Each book, each new routine was new stimulus my body was not used to. Think you will hit 240lbs naturally and bring that attitude to the gym everyday. A little more each day equals a shitload over time. Think of it as a martial art or a Buddhist meditation that only time will help you master. No matter the age, condition or experience of anyone on here...are greatest adversary will always be the person you see in the the mirror. It doesn't matter if your 24 or 64, you learn to love the grind. I know this is an AAS forum, but the true gift of this sport/activity is it teaches you the limits that you thought existed and to rise above and repeat.

Yeah being 230lbs with 4% body-fat would be unreal. This accomplishment would shadow in comparison to what ladies, friends and even kids see within you. I am in the worst shape of my life after a major motorcycle accident and 6 surgeries. "Oh well"... this is what the iron game teaches you if you pay attention to learn to master it. It mirrors life as it a series of trials and tribulations that teaches one of attrition. Forget the articles, youtube videos and BS information about "what to take" and "when".

I have been at it since I was 12 and I am currently 47. No bench press record, personal best squat or tape measurement size will ever compare to the grind and what it can teach you. Even when your gains fade from injury, sickness and age you will always have a base that serves as a mantra of how to tackle the world. I have been down, fat, out of shape many times in my life. What has always saved me is going back to my origins as a kid learning to push myself so hard that if I don't puke after a leg workout I did something wrong. Every time I watch a mountain climbing documentary/movie I completely see why they risk death scaling a mountain in the frigid temperatures.

It really can be this simple if you look in the mirror and challenge yourself everyday. When the struggle and resolve becomes the real addiction, you will be in a position to decided if you hit your personal limits and want to proceed.

Hope this helps

 

[bornSkinny]

I'm at a stage in which no normal person would observe it in the slightest, but I do and I don't really care if it works or not. As far as I'm aware there's virtually no downsides to trying it and is cheap as well (I was about to ask why you say it's pricy when I only see it cheap everywhere).

No downsides huh? Like the possibility of side effects? Because I was taking Ralox at 60mg then tapered down to 30mg after 2 months and about 3 months in total I started experiencing vision issues. It was pretty scary. I bailed on it, and it stopped so I think it did cause it.

 

[sketch7]

Just run 500Mg test / week for 16 weeks and have aromasin or arimidex on hand. Why bother with these sarm substances?

 

[imperator]

It might sound like some old man jibberish, but this is what it comes down to. You learn to love the work and this is what you become, this is what defines you later in life. Some of my fondest memories of lifting was being 12-18 years old and slaving for every little gain I could squeeze out. Each book, each new routine was new stimulus my body was not used to. Think you will hit 240lbs naturally and bring that attitude to the gym everyday. A little more each day equals a shitload over time. Think of it as a martial art or a Buddhist meditation that only time will help you master. No matter the age, condition or experience of anyone on here...are greatest adversary will always be the person you see in the the mirror. It doesn't matter if your 24 or 64, you learn to love the grind. I know this is an AAS forum, but the true gift of this sport/activity is it teaches you the limits that you thought existed and to rise above and repeat.

Yeah being 230lbs with 4% body-fat would be unreal. This accomplishment would shadow in comparison to what ladies, friends and even kids see within you. I am in the worst shape of my life after a major motorcycle accident and 6 surgeries. "Oh well"... this is what the iron game teaches you if you pay attention to learn to master it. It mirrors life as it a series of trials and tribulations that teaches one of attrition. Forget the articles, youtube videos and BS information about "what to take" and "when".

I have been at it since I was 12 and I am currently 47. No bench press record, personal best squat or tape measurement size will ever compare to the grind and what it can teach you. Even when your gains fade from injury, sickness and age you will always have a base that serves as a mantra of how to tackle the world. I have been down, fat, out of shape many times in my life. What has always saved me is going back to my origins as a kid learning to push myself so hard that if I don't puke after a leg workout I did something wrong. Every time I watch a mountain climbing documentary/movie I completely see why they risk death scaling a mountain in the frigid temperatures.

It really can be this simple if you look in the mirror and challenge yourself everyday. When the struggle and resolve becomes the real addiction, you will be in a position to decided if you hit your personal limits and want to proceed.

Hope this helps

Thanks man, this message means a lot to me and I will definitely think about everything you said while I lift. Thanks for taking your time to write it up, I really do appreciate it.

Just run 500Mg test / week for 16 weeks and have aromasin or arimidex on hand. Why bother with these sarm substances?

Maybe in the future I'll do more, right now this is all I can (and would like to) do realistically.

 

[mands]

@imperator please put all peptides and drugs away and reevaluate your training and diet.

You could possibly share this information here unless you’ve already posted in another area.

I personally think your approach is way off base.

mands