at your height and weight, what you need is food not drugs. your stats are those of someone who has trained naturally for a year. if you've been training for longer than that, you're not training hard enough and/or eating enough.
dont say some shit about how youre a hard gainer if you've never eaten to the point where you started vomiting or were so bloated that you couldnt walk after.
Hey @mands I appreciate your reply. My diet is currently somewhat perfect maintenance and includes every macro/micro the body needs to the fullest extent possible. Timings are proper as well, and it's also as diverse as necessary. Full bloodwork worth hundreds of bucks was done as well after about 4 months of following it and everything turned out perfect. I'm always using progressive overload but still training for aesthetics at the moment. Thanks for your reply!
at your height and weight, what you need is food not drugs. your stats are those of someone who has trained naturally for a year. if you've been training for longer than that, you're not training hard enough and/or eating enough.
dont say some shit about how youre a hard gainer if you've never eaten to the point where you started vomiting or were so bloated that you couldnt walk after.
I eat to live, I don't live to eat. I'll eat as much as needed whenever, wherever. I control my appetite. Just in recomp for a while now. At 165lb/75kg and my goal being 175lb/80kg I think I can achieve that faster with LGD-4033, even after losing the water retention. Thanks for your reply!
In case anyone has some knowledge and interest in giving some advice regarding my plan, I'd appreciate it.
Hi all, this is my first actual thread after lurking on and off for a while.
I'm just getting started and looking for feedback for my first 'cycle'.
The goal is to gain some mass and strength, without many side effects.
Constructive criticism and optimization are very welcomed, thanks!
Current plan LGD-4033 10mg/day for 8 weeks MK-677 10mg/day for 8 weeks (is this low?) Raloxifene 30mg/day for 8 weeks (60mg first 10 days) NAC 600mg/day for organ support for 8 weeks
PCT plan Clomid for 4 weeks, 50/50/25/25 Sup3r PCT 10caps/day
Vitamin B6 (Pyridoxine HCL)
150mg
8,000%
Magnesium (as Magnesium Oxide)
450mg
107%
Zinc (as Zinc Aspartate)
35mg
318.5%
Fadogia Agrestis (stem) Extract (extracted to contain a full spectrum of alkaloids, sapnonins, anthraquinones, & flavonoids)
1,200mg
**
Bulbine Natalensis (stem) Extract (leaf)
700mg
**
E.Cottonii Extract 10:1
600mg
**
Horny Goat Weed (Epimedium) Extract (leaf)
500mg
**
Mucuna pruriens [Seed] (Standardized to Minium 99% L-Dopa)
Bioperine® Black Pepper (Piper nigrum) [Fruit] (Standardized to 95% Piperine]
5mg
**
Basically, I will use LGD-4033 for strength and mass (can't go RAD140 due to hair issues), and MK-677 for GH and sleep, hair, and skin quality.
For that period of time and while I'm at it I'm adding Raloxifene to reduce some of my gynecomastia (very minimal so it should solve it), but I'm unsure if it has any bad interactions with anything else on the list.
I'm also unsure if NAC is needed but I don't think it'd have any downsides (?).
Regarding the PCT plan, a lot of people say it's not needed for such a 'cycle' (if it can even be called a cycle), but I believe I should use it if not at least have it at hand.
Also before anyone jumps on me about SARMs, that's currently my only choice until I move out (that's also why no test base!) and I also consider it a good stepping stone for a beginner. Been doing various types of training and exercise for about 2 years now, with no specific focus; rather been focusing on building a foundation when it comes to mass, strength, endurance, flexibility, form, and whatnot.
My current stats are:
- 24y/o
- 177cm (5'10)
- 75kg (165 lb)
Thanks in advance for taking the time to read this, and hopefully you've got some constructive criticism for my first-ever plan. Anything helps really, I'm just getting started and need some more knowledge. Always looking for the safest and cleanest ways to do things! Feel free to ask me anything.
You've got way too much info on the net in order to put together something so stupid. Even the 150mg's of B6 is stupid as is using LDOPA which only idiotic supplement companies put in their products not knowing how dangerous l dopa in reality really is. And then to top it all of you want to use clomid? Why df would you want to use fucking zuclomiphene? Use anything else, preferably enclomiphene and if you can't source it use tamox.
Oh, and did I mention the sarms and no estrogen base, you realize how unhealthy it is to have zero estrogen for 8 weeks not to mention how fucked up you'll feel? Also, using Mk for sleep? Seriously? That's a ghrelin mimetic, it's chemical ptsd in a bottle and you want to use it for sleep?
With all the info on the net I'm perplexed somebody is able to put something as stupid as this together.
Zinc aspartate and magnesium oxide ... Forgot about those ...
No downsides huh? Like the possibility of side effects? Because I was taking Ralox at 60mg then tapered down to 30mg after 2 months and about 3 months in total I started experiencing vision issues. It was pretty scary. I bailed on it, and it stopped so I think it did cause it.
I have seen many people admit that when they are on SERMs, they get vision problems, but as soon as they get off, they're fine. Idk if they cause long-term vision problems, most probably that's rare.
You've got way too much info on the net in order to put together something so stupid. Even the 150mg's of B6 is stupid as is using LDOPA which only idiotic supplement companies put in their products not knowing how dangerous l dopa in reality really is. And then to top it all of you want to use clomid? Why df would you want to use fucking zuclomiphene? Use anything else, preferably enclomiphene and if you can't source it use tamox.
Oh, and did I mention the sarms and no estrogen base, you realize how unhealthy it is to have zero estrogen for 8 weeks not to mention how fucked up you'll feel? Also, using Mk for sleep? Seriously? That's a ghrelin mimetic, it's chemical ptsd in a bottle and you want to use it for sleep?
With all the info on the net I'm perplexed somebody is able to put something as stupid as this together.
Zinc aspartate and magnesium oxide ... Forgot about those ...
Hi @Jin23! I highly appreciate your reply as this is exactly what I'm looking for besides the passive-aggressive way of putting it.
I agree with the high dosage of B6, although I think it's unlikely to encounter issues over 4 weeks I'll consider it because you're right. I fully agree with the L-DOPA now, you made me look a bit further into it. The argument for zuclomiphene is due to potential estrogenic effects I believe? I know that Clomid has been used effectively for PCT for years and I've encountered it mentioned along with LGD as PCT a lot more than I could tell you But if that's the case then I'll follow your advice so thank you.
Regarding the absence of estrogen for 8 weeks being unhealthy, I see what you mean, although I'm kinda prepared to face the side effects if we're only talking about a few weeks. I also know that some people recommend a test base to keep some androgenic activity but I don't think it's an absolute necessity based on all the testimonials I've read. Feel free to change my mind on this though. About the Mk, I don't know if it's my wording but I'm not necessarily specifically using it for the purpose of improving sleep. 'chemical PTSD in a bottle' isn't accurate I think but I get your point. I'm using it for its potential benefits in increasing growth hormone, although if you have some advice about what I can do/change while I monitor my body's response to it I'll gladly listen brother.
Lastly, regarding the zinc aspartate and magnesium oxide, even though they aren't inherently "bad" I agree they're not as effective and bioavailable as they could be. I'll make sure to switch 'em up to zinc picolinate and magnesium glycinate. Thanks so much for your reply, hopefully you can follow-up to mine, would highly appreciate it.
Hi @Jin23! I highly appreciate your reply as this is exactly what I'm looking for besides the passive-aggressive way of putting it.
I agree with the high dosage of B6, although I think it's unlikely to encounter issues over 4 weeks I'll consider it because you're right. I fully agree with the L-DOPA now, you made me look a bit further into it. The argument for zuclomiphene is due to potential estrogenic effects I believe? I know that Clomid has been used effectively for PCT for years and I've encountered it mentioned along with LGD as PCT a lot more than I could tell you But if that's the case then I'll follow your advice so thank you.
Regarding the absence of estrogen for 8 weeks being unhealthy, I see what you mean, although I'm kinda prepared to face the side effects if we're only talking about a few weeks. I also know that some people recommend a test base to keep some androgenic activity but I don't think it's an absolute necessity based on all the testimonials I've read. Feel free to change my mind on this though. About the Mk, I don't know if it's my wording but I'm not necessarily specifically using it for the purpose of improving sleep. 'chemical PTSD in a bottle' isn't accurate I think but I get your point. I'm using it for its potential benefits in increasing growth hormone, although if you have some advice about what I can do/change while I monitor my body's response to it I'll gladly listen brother.
Lastly, regarding the zinc aspartate and magnesium oxide, even though they aren't inherently "bad" I agree they're not as effective and bioavailable as they could be. I'll make sure to switch 'em up to zinc picolinate and magnesium glycinate. Thanks so much for your reply, hopefully you can follow-up to mine, would highly appreciate it.
Not passively aggressive (bitches do that): directly aggressive. Haven't slept more then 2h today, it's not you, I'm just fucked. I've also been answering the same old questions on these boards for far too long and such basic stuff just pisses me off as no matter how much you try to help there is always going to be a plethora of young folks who just want to do some drugs. And if you want such basic questions answered, to which you could get answers yourself by doing some basic research, you can always pay somebody for consultations. Heck, give me 50 buck and I'll guide you and answer your questions.
Re estrogen: E2 is very important, especially for a) the brains glymphatic system and b) for it's immunoregulatory role. It's also very important for mood and cognition. The glymphatic system removes waste and toxins (such as beta amyloid's if that rings a bell) from your brain when you sleep and it's modulated by AQP4 receptors of which estrogen regulates it's expression. This is mostly in the astrocytes. Estrogen also regulates neurotransmitters and has a hand in neuroplasticity. Depriving yourself of estrogen is just pure stupidity. It has a tone of functions in the periphery and organs too ofc. But the brain is imo the most important thing.
Ghrelin is a stress hormone, and it's a very dirty hormone at that as it regulates a lot of systems, not just the HPA axis. As an end point, it's very common for people to feel pronounced anxiety when taking Mk and sleep disturbance is also a shared outcome. If you want better sleep you need GHRH (cjc1295 and mod grf). There is absolutely fuck all reason (except money) to use Mk over cyc1295 which requires only one pin a week and at your age, you'll reach igf levels of 600 with a 60mcg/kg dose.
Yes, zuclomiphene is basically a very potent estrogen. In this day and age there is also zero need to use it.
And yes, using lgd is stupid as you have no idea about it's epigenetic risks and also, yes, using it without testosterone you are depriving your body of a hormone for which lgd wont fulfill it's functions. It's a SARM, although at higher dosages it losses it's tissues specificity, it's still a very different molecule and it's systemic effects are going to be much different then testosterone. Not to mention it doesn't metabolize to any of it's prohormone metabolites. Also what about DHEA, progesterone, allopregnanolone, etc. etc.
Not passively aggressive (bitches do that): directly aggressive. Haven't slept more then 2h today, it's not you, I'm just fucked. I've also been answering the same old questions on these boards for far too long and such basic stuff just pisses me off as no matter how much you try to help there is always going to be a plethora of young folks who just want to do some drugs. And if you want such basic questions answered, to which you could get answers yourself by doing some basic research, you can always pay somebody for consultations. Heck, give me 50 buck and I'll guide you and answer your questions.
Re estrogen: E2 is very important, especially for a) the brains glymphatic system and b) for it's immunoregulatory role. It's also very important for mood and cognition. The glymphatic system removes waste and toxins (such as beta amyloid's if that rings a bell) from your brain when you sleep and it's modulated by AQP4 receptors of which estrogen regulates it's expression. This is mostly in the astrocytes. Estrogen also regulates neurotransmitters and has a hand in neuroplasticity. Depriving yourself of estrogen is just pure stupidity. It has a tone of functions in the periphery and organs too ofc. But the brain is imo the most important thing.
Ghrelin is a stress hormone, and it's a very dirty hormone at that as it regulates a lot of systems, not just the HPA axis. As an end point, it's very common for people to feel pronounced anxiety when taking Mk and sleep disturbance is also a shared outcome. If you want better sleep you need GHRH (cjc1295 and mod grf). There is absolutely fuck all reason (except money) to use Mk over cyc1295 which requires only one pin a week and at your age, you'll reach igf levels of 600 with a 60mcg/kg dose.
Yes, zuclomiphene is basically a very potent estrogen. In this day and age there is also zero need to use it.
And yes, using lgd is stupid as you have no idea about it's epigenetic risks and also, yes, using it without testosterone you are depriving your body of a hormone for which lgd wont fulfill it's functions. It's a SARM, although at higher dosages it losses it's tissues specificity, it's still a very different molecule and it's systemic effects are going to be much different then testosterone. Not to mention it doesn't metabolize to any of it's prohormone metabolites. Also what about DHEA, progesterone, allopregnanolone, etc. etc.
Not passively aggressive (bitches do that): directly aggressive. Haven't slept more then 2h today, it's not you, I'm just fucked. I've also been answering the same old questions on these boards for far too long and such basic stuff just pisses me off as no matter how much you try to help there is always going to be a plethora of young folks who just want to do some drugs. And if you want such basic questions answered, to which you could get answers yourself by doing some basic research, you can always pay somebody for consultations. Heck, give me 50 buck and I'll guide you and answer your questions.
Re estrogen: E2 is very important, especially for a) the brains glymphatic system and b) for it's immunoregulatory role. It's also very important for mood and cognition. The glymphatic system removes waste and toxins (such as beta amyloid's if that rings a bell) from your brain when you sleep and it's modulated by AQP4 receptors of which estrogen regulates it's expression. This is mostly in the astrocytes. Estrogen also regulates neurotransmitters and has a hand in neuroplasticity. Depriving yourself of estrogen is just pure stupidity. It has a tone of functions in the periphery and organs too ofc. But the brain is imo the most important thing.
Ghrelin is a stress hormone, and it's a very dirty hormone at that as it regulates a lot of systems, not just the HPA axis. As an end point, it's very common for people to feel pronounced anxiety when taking Mk and sleep disturbance is also a shared outcome. If you want better sleep you need GHRH (cjc1295 and mod grf). There is absolutely fuck all reason (except money) to use Mk over cyc1295 which requires only one pin a week and at your age, you'll reach igf levels of 600 with a 60mcg/kg dose.
Yes, zuclomiphene is basically a very potent estrogen. In this day and age there is also zero need to use it.
And yes, using lgd is stupid as you have no idea about it's epigenetic risks and also, yes, using it without testosterone you are depriving your body of a hormone for which lgd wont fulfill it's functions. It's a SARM, although at higher dosages it losses it's tissues specificity, it's still a very different molecule and it's systemic effects are going to be much different then testosterone. Not to mention it doesn't metabolize to any of it's prohormone metabolites. Also what about DHEA, progesterone, allopregnanolone, etc. etc.
So, if I insist on using LGD... a conclusion would be just LGD for 8 weeks along with NAC and then enclomiphene with a better test boost combo than the one I mentioned initially? Regarding the 'base', if I could pin anything I would do that instead of LGD in the first place. I can't right now logistically.
I have seen many people admit that when they are on SERMs, they get vision problems, but as soon as they get off, they're fine. Idk if they cause long-term vision problems, most probably that's rare.
Very interesting, I'll definitely look into that and learn more about it. Nonetheless, it's nice to read people's stories with various substances. Thank you.
This looks like a cycle mostly based off of reddit. Give it a go if you must but as someone who has experimented with SARM + SERM I would not recommend it. In order for it to be effective dosage must be WAY higher than 10 mg of SARM. 10mg of LGD will do fuck all. I know reddit is filled with anecdotes making big claims of this dosage but I think it's 99% BS. For me SARM + SERM had an effect but was unimpressive until 40mg of SARM. The cost and side effects of the cycle was not worth it. I get more out of high TRT dose Test and 2 IU HGH and feel WAY better.
A much better cycle would be even just a high TRT dose of Test + an oral. Add HCG through the entire cycle then PCT. Many like just test at higher dose but I think that choice depends on your goals. For me I prefer high TRT dose and adding another anabolic. What works for you can only be found through your own experimentation. Even oxandralone + SERM I found more effective for a short term sport specific goal, but I won't repeat that again either.
If you are worried about gyno always keep an AI on hand. Start low and go slow. No need to go big the first time. You can always raise dosages as you see fit on later cycles.
This looks like a cycle mostly based off of reddit. Give it a go if you must but as someone who has experimented with SARM + SERM I would not recommend it. In order for it to be effective dosage must be WAY higher than 10 mg of SARM. 10mg of LGD will do fuck all. I know reddit is filled with anecdotes making big claims of this dosage but I think it's 99% BS. For me SARM + SERM had an effect but was unimpressive until 40mg of SARM. The cost and side effects of the cycle was not worth it. I get more out of high TRT dose Test and 2 IU HGH and feel WAY better.
A much better cycle would be even just a high TRT dose of Test + an oral. Add HCG through the entire cycle then PCT. Many like just test at higher dose but I think that choice depends on your goals. For me I prefer high TRT dose and adding another anabolic. What works for you can only be found through your own experimentation. Even oxandralone + SERM I found more effective for a short term sport specific goal, but I won't repeat that again either.
If you are worried about gyno always keep an AI on hand. Start low and go slow. No need to go big the first time. You can always raise dosages as you see fit on later cycles.
Thank you I appreciate the reply. I don't think I've been on reddit at all but I can see what you mean. Looking at more advanced users as well as all the research available, I've only seen severely diminishing returns after 10-15mg, but I'll look more into it if you think it's "unimpressive until 40mg", maybe I'm missing something. Regarding test, as I've said believe me I'd do that today if logistics would allow me but can't right now so I'm looking for the best alternative in the meantime, and this looks like it for now.
Thank you I appreciate the reply. I don't think I've been on reddit at all but I can see what you mean. Looking at more advanced users as well as all the research available, I've only seen severely diminishing returns after 10-15mg, but I'll look more into it if you think it's "unimpressive until 40mg", maybe I'm missing something. Regarding test, as I've said believe me I'd do that today if logistics would allow me but can't right now so I'm looking for the best alternative in the meantime, and this looks like it for now.
Gotcha. I imagine 10mg + test will do something but very mild add on. I actually like RAD 140 as an add on for it's neural drive and strength benefit but I don't do bulking phases. If you're set on LGD I would do test + 20mg then go higher on LGD if sides are not bad and depending on goals. For bulking I would go for a traditional oral as the negative health sides are similar but AAS is cheaper and proven very effective. I have read reports of LGD at 30 - 40mg + test being a decent mass stack.
I never understood why people “buck” on doing Test or other “safe” AAS but, they have no problem taking a RC which is exactly that, a research chemical. I most definitely agree, you’re 24 and if your test levels are low you can definitely benefit and accomplish what you want with Test Cyp. SARMS can not compare to AAS effectiveness. Waste of money IMO.
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But if that's the case then I'll follow your advice so thank you.
