MESO-Rx
Anabolic Steroids
femera vs Arimidex
- Thread starter pump55
- Start date
pump55 said:
They're both non steroidal aromatase inhibitors and do basically the same thing to roughly the same degree. If a person wanted to get picky, they could point out that arimidex suppresses estrogen to roughly 95% while letrozole suppresses estrogen to roughly 98%. That's the same as zero difference as far as we're concerned.
However, I believe on a mg per mg basis, arimidex wins out as the normal dose in most studies of arimidex is 1mg/day while the normal dose of letro is 2.5mg/day.
There are conflicting studies on the effects of letro and arimidex on IGF-1 so I would be cautious in basing any decisions on that. However, there is one excellent study with boys taking arimidex and testosterone versus testosterone alone which shows the arimidex/test combo to increase IGF-1.
There have been studies showing a significant negative effect on cholesterol levels with letro, specifically increases in LDL. And studies showing no such effect with arimidex.
Personally, I use arimidex but either could be used equally well for the purpose of suppressing estrogen.
MaxRep
Paulo
New Member
I read once where Letrozole was supposed to be better at halting aromatase activity deeper within adipose tissue, where there is a significant amount of that activity taking place.
However, I still am stickin with adex. There are a range of other sides reported with Letro, including libido/impotence issues...
However, I still am stickin with adex. There are a range of other sides reported with Letro, including libido/impotence issues...
BoogerSnax
New Member
Research shows that Femera is more effective than Arimidex.
http://www.femara.com/monograph/pdf/Product_Monograph.pdf
Of course the monograph is off the Femera website, but they are FDA approved which means their research has been gone over quite thoroughly.
PEACE
http://www.femara.com/monograph/pdf/Product_Monograph.pdf
Of course the monograph is off the Femera website, but they are FDA approved which means their research has been gone over quite thoroughly.
PEACE
BoogerSnax said:
Like I said, if you want to get picky, there is a very small percentage difference in the two. 95% suppression versus 98% suppression. In the real world and for our purposes, that equals zero difference.
To say letrozole is more effective than arimidex is really not true. Especially when you consider the effects are somewhat dosage dependent and they don't use the same dosage.
In fact, I noticed your link doesn't even mention the dosages used in the comparison. Hardly unbiased "research". I'd like to see the results of 1mg arimidex versus 1mg letrozole. Probably not nearly as favorable considering that in the unbiased studies I've read, it takes 2.5 times as much letro to get to 98% suppression.
MaxRep
BoogerSnax
New Member
NIKO, nice avatar...niko said:
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I don't specialize in these drugs but my understanding (from females) is that these drugs share some side effects (thromboembolism) while others are quite different. In fact it is arimidex that must legally (FDA) carry a warning against hypercholesterolemia (LDL) while letrozole does not.MaxRep said:
Although it is not intuitive to some POTENCY means how much of a drug is necessary to get a certain effect. By gross numbers, arimidex is more potent (1mg=95%) than letrozole (2.5mg=98%). But sides of each drug are typically linked to potency as well . . . so the lower dose of arimidex is comparable to a higher dose of letrozole.
While MaxRep is certainly a man amongst boys on the board . . . I have to disagree to a certain extent as to the significance of 98 vs 95. The pharmcodynamics (how a drug does it's thing) and pharmacokinetics (how a drug get's to where it should do it's thing and how long it is around) are hidden in those numbers and are very important for good (and bad) effects. Further, the number to look at isn't suppression . . . it's enzyme activity. Letrozole allows 2% of normal activity while arimidex allows 5% of normal activity. Due to the high amount of circulating AAS, your enzymes will be fully saturated working a full tilt. If you are converting 2.5x as much of very little (low dose cycle or PCT) then it MaxRep is spot on. If you are converting 2.5x as much of a lot (mod-high dose cycle) then we are potentially talking about a lot of estrogen.
It is my belief that the amount of circulating estrogen while using arimidex is miniscule enough that for our purposes, it more than does the job and the difference between it and letrozole is equally miniscule.
Now, if I were a woman with breast cancer, I'd probably opt for letro. But, it's important to remember our goal in using estrogen blockers and aromatase inhibitors is not to eliminate all estrogen.
There are quite a few scientific studies detailing Estrogens effects and benefits. Among other things, estrogen reduces cholesterol, increases glucose utilization, increases GH/IGF-1 levels and positively affects androgen receptor concentrations.
Demeurj,
I'm not sure where you're getting your info, although I've learned to never say never.
I have the patient handouts and related materials on both arimidex and letrozole. I don't see any mention in the arimidex literature about LDL warnings and several studies I've reviewed show no such problem.
MaxRep
__________________________________________________________________
ARIMIDEX ORAL
Patient Handout
ANASTROZOLE - ORAL
Common Brand Name(s):
Arimidex
Side Effects
Diarrhea, constipation, nausea, vomiting, loss of appetite, headache, hot flashes, dizziness, dry mouth, back pain, vaginal dryness and cough may occur. Changes in diet such as eating several small meals or limited activity may help lessen nausea and vomiting. In some cases, therapy with another drug may be necessary to prevent or relieve nausea. Notify your doctor if you experience: breathing trouble, rash, vaginal bleeding, shortness of breath, chest pain, pain or swelling in the legs, swelling of the feet or ankles, weight gain, tingling of the hands or feet, depression. If you notice other effects not listed above, contact your doctor or pharmacist.
Adverse Effects List & Discussion
More Frequent
ABDOMINAL PAIN
ASTHENIA
BONE PAIN
CHEST PAIN
COUGH
DIARRHEA
DIZZINESS
DRY MOUTH
DYSPNEA
FLUSHING
GI DISTURBANCE
HEADACHE
HOT FLASHES
NAUSEA
PELVIC PAIN
PERIPHERAL EDEMA
SKIN RASH
SWEATING
VOMITING
Less Frequent
ALOPECIA
ANEMIA
ARTHRALGIA
BREAST PAIN
HYPERTENSION
LEUKOPENIA (W OR W/O INFECTION)
MENORRHAGIA
MYALGIA
PARESTHESIA
PRURITUS
RHINITIS
SINUSITIS
THROMBOEMBOLISM
THROMBOPHLEBITIS
VAGINAL DRYNESS
WEIGHT GAIN
The list of Letrozole side effects is similar.
LETROZOLE ORAL
Patient Handout
LETROZOLE - ORAL
Common Brand Name(s):
Femara
Side Effects
This drug is generally well tolerated. Fatigue, nausea, constipation, diarrhea, headache, drowsiness or dizziness may occur. If these persist or worsen, notify your doctor promptly. Unlikely but report promptly: chest pain, stomach pain, trouble breathing, hot flushes, rash, itching. Very unlikely but report promptly: swelling/redness/weakness/ pain in legs or arms, vision problems, unusual vaginal bleeding. If you notice other effects not listed above, contact your doctor or pharmacist.
More Frequent
NAUSEA
Less Frequent
ALOPECIA
ANOREXIA
ANXIETY
ARTHRALGIA
ASTHENIA
CHEST PAIN
CONSTIPATION
COUGH
DIARRHEA
DIZZINESS
DROWSINESS
DYSPNEA
HEADACHE
HOT FLASHES
HYPERTENSION
INCREASED SWEATING
ITCHING
MENTAL DEPRESSION
MYALGIA
PERIPHERAL EDEMA
SKIN RASH
STOMACH PAIN, UPSET
UNUSUAL TIREDNESS
VOMITING
WEIGHT GAIN
Rare or Very Rare
ABNORMAL VAGINAL BLEEDING
THROMBOEMBOLISM
Now, if I were a woman with breast cancer, I'd probably opt for letro. But, it's important to remember our goal in using estrogen blockers and aromatase inhibitors is not to eliminate all estrogen.
There are quite a few scientific studies detailing Estrogens effects and benefits. Among other things, estrogen reduces cholesterol, increases glucose utilization, increases GH/IGF-1 levels and positively affects androgen receptor concentrations.
Demeurj,
I'm not sure where you're getting your info, although I've learned to never say never.
I have the patient handouts and related materials on both arimidex and letrozole. I don't see any mention in the arimidex literature about LDL warnings and several studies I've reviewed show no such problem. MaxRep
__________________________________________________________________
ARIMIDEX ORAL
Patient Handout
ANASTROZOLE - ORAL
Common Brand Name(s):
Arimidex
Side Effects
Diarrhea, constipation, nausea, vomiting, loss of appetite, headache, hot flashes, dizziness, dry mouth, back pain, vaginal dryness and cough may occur. Changes in diet such as eating several small meals or limited activity may help lessen nausea and vomiting. In some cases, therapy with another drug may be necessary to prevent or relieve nausea. Notify your doctor if you experience: breathing trouble, rash, vaginal bleeding, shortness of breath, chest pain, pain or swelling in the legs, swelling of the feet or ankles, weight gain, tingling of the hands or feet, depression. If you notice other effects not listed above, contact your doctor or pharmacist.
Adverse Effects List & Discussion
More Frequent
ABDOMINAL PAIN
ASTHENIA
BONE PAIN
CHEST PAIN
COUGH
DIARRHEA
DIZZINESS
DRY MOUTH
DYSPNEA
FLUSHING
GI DISTURBANCE
HEADACHE
HOT FLASHES
NAUSEA
PELVIC PAIN
PERIPHERAL EDEMA
SKIN RASH
SWEATING
VOMITING
Less Frequent
ALOPECIA
ANEMIA
ARTHRALGIA
BREAST PAIN
HYPERTENSION
LEUKOPENIA (W OR W/O INFECTION)
MENORRHAGIA
MYALGIA
PARESTHESIA
PRURITUS
RHINITIS
SINUSITIS
THROMBOEMBOLISM
THROMBOPHLEBITIS
VAGINAL DRYNESS
WEIGHT GAIN
The list of Letrozole side effects is similar.
LETROZOLE ORAL
Patient Handout
LETROZOLE - ORAL
Common Brand Name(s):
Femara
Side Effects
This drug is generally well tolerated. Fatigue, nausea, constipation, diarrhea, headache, drowsiness or dizziness may occur. If these persist or worsen, notify your doctor promptly. Unlikely but report promptly: chest pain, stomach pain, trouble breathing, hot flushes, rash, itching. Very unlikely but report promptly: swelling/redness/weakness/ pain in legs or arms, vision problems, unusual vaginal bleeding. If you notice other effects not listed above, contact your doctor or pharmacist.
More Frequent
NAUSEA
Less Frequent
ALOPECIA
ANOREXIA
ANXIETY
ARTHRALGIA
ASTHENIA
CHEST PAIN
CONSTIPATION
COUGH
DIARRHEA
DIZZINESS
DROWSINESS
DYSPNEA
HEADACHE
HOT FLASHES
HYPERTENSION
INCREASED SWEATING
ITCHING
MENTAL DEPRESSION
MYALGIA
PERIPHERAL EDEMA
SKIN RASH
STOMACH PAIN, UPSET
UNUSUAL TIREDNESS
VOMITING
WEIGHT GAIN
Rare or Very Rare
ABNORMAL VAGINAL BLEEDING
THROMBOEMBOLISM
einstein1905
New Member
They work at the exact same step of the exact same mechanism, with the only difference being a slight difference in binding affinity. They have identical sides and physiologicall effects, since they do the exact same thing. The only differences will be in magnitude of the physiological effects that are altered with AI use.....not the direction. If letro raises X, then so does adex, but maybe to a lesser degree. there is nothing one does that the other doesn't, despite what one study here or there may imply. All you have to do is step back and look at what exactly they are doing in the body.
As MR, said, the effects are dose-dependent.....we use AIs to slightly lower E2, not to drop it down like intended for breast cancer patients. estrogen is very anabolic......we use AIs to just avoid hypertension symptoms, and we use nolva to allow us to tolerate high estrogen levels w/o experiencing gyno sides (and to offset lipid effects of AIs).
As MR, said, the effects are dose-dependent.....we use AIs to slightly lower E2, not to drop it down like intended for breast cancer patients. estrogen is very anabolic......we use AIs to just avoid hypertension symptoms, and we use nolva to allow us to tolerate high estrogen levels w/o experiencing gyno sides (and to offset lipid effects of AIs).
No particular argument here. I was lazy and used Epocrates. Both of you are generally quite accurate but there is ample evidence that many drugs belonging to comparable classes can have very different side effects/efficacy profiles because they are belong to different families.
You both know these drugs much better than I do but I specialize in neuropsychopharmacology . . . and virtually all of our drugs . . . even the engineered ones . . . have "rich" pharmacology. In the old days, we called them "dirty".
You both know these drugs much better than I do but I specialize in neuropsychopharmacology . . . and virtually all of our drugs . . . even the engineered ones . . . have "rich" pharmacology. In the old days, we called them "dirty".
BoogerSnax said:
Phen Phen was approved by the FDA also, lots of good hype on that companies web board about how good it was. Now I got a spouse with a cardiovascular disorder and a stack of legal paperwork for a class action law suit laying around..
No disrespect BoogerSnax(gross name!!)
But in all honesty alot of research funded by the interested party is untrustworthy. Point being one of my professors brought up a study(been over 14 yrs can't remember products actual names) which showed product A being superior to product B. Research was on the money but what wasn't said was previous 5 runs on same research showed opposite results. Company simply continued to run the research on different subjects till they had the results they wanted..
How come no one ever chooses coke over pepsi during a pepsi taste test???
Edicut
