First Cycle Advice

[sabredude]

My first post here. This looks like a great board.

After years of debating the advantages and disadvantages of AAS, I'm thinking of finally doing my first cycle at the end of January. I've been doing Serostim (GH) since December 1, and am seeing some nice results with definition and body fat reduction, but I want to add some size.

I'm not too in the mix as far as having availability to AAS, but I am able to get some Test (Suspension, I think), and have been told that a 10 week cycle of 200mg/week. Is this something a novice should start with? I'm really nervous about the side effects and need some advice on what to stack with that to keep liver toxicity and aromitization in check. I don't want to become a toxic waste site in the process.

In my research I discovered I really wanted to start out with a cycle of Sustanon, then try a cycle of Sustanon and Deca, but don't have availability to that yet. Is Test Suspension much different from Sustanon?

I'm 40 years old, 6'2 190. I'm hoping that at the end of two cycles, I might have added about 20 pounds of lean muscle. Is that realistic?

Thanks in advance for any replies.

 

[mesomember]

My first post here. This looks like a great board.

After years of debating the advantages and disadvantages of AAS, I'm thinking of finally doing my first cycle at the end of January. I've been doing Serostim (GH) since December 1, and am seeing some nice results with definition and body fat reduction, but I want to add some size.

I'm not too in the mix as far as having availability to AAS, but I am able to get some Test (Suspension, I think), and have been told that a 10 week cycle of 200mg/week. Is this something a novice should start with? I'm really nervous about the side effects and need some advice on what to stack with that to keep liver toxicity and aromitization in check. I don't want to become a toxic waste site in the process.

In my research I discovered I really wanted to start out with a cycle of Sustanon, then try a cycle of Sustanon and Deca, but don't have availability to that yet. Is Test Suspension much different from Sustanon?

I'm 40 years old, 6'2 190. I'm hoping that at the end of two cycles, I might have added about 20 pounds of lean muscle. Is that realistic?

.

Thanks in advance for any replies.

try 300mg a week of the Test, 2cc's of 50mg mon, wed & fri and some Dianabol tablets for the first 6 weeks 25mg a day....if you want to gain 20lbs. The dianabol are easy to find

 

[Haggard]

try 300mg a week of the Test, 2cc's of 50mg mon, wed & fri and some Dianabol tablets for the first 6 weeks 25mg a day....if you want to gain 20lbs. The dianabol are easy to find

Bro you will have to inject the test suspension at the minimum ED.....Since this will be your first cycle i say fuck that and go with a longer ester such as enanthate or cypionate......You can get away with injecting twice per week and see awesome results...Good luck

 

[koal]

Bro you will have to inject the test suspension at the minimum ED.....Since this will be your first cycle i say fuck that and go with a longer ester such as enanthate or cypionate......You can get away with injecting twice per week and see awesome results...Good luck

Personally i would do 250 mg of test enth /200 mgs eq on mon and thur.
Start off nice and easy for your first cycle.Run it 10 weeks with .5mg of arimidex daily.Frontload dboll for 4 weeks at perhaps 30 mgs day.Again keep it simple and lite.You have next 20 years to increase and experiment.The above was my first cycle(minus arim) and it put 18 lbs on me.Lots of protein too.
My personal beliefs and many good bros on board will have thier input as well.
Good luck.

 

[Southernjuice]

I would use 500mgs of test cyp or enanth and have the anti-e's on hand but don't think you'll need to run a regular dose of rimi with that cycle.

 

[betterthanu]

I would run about 500mg a week, which would mean that you would have to inject twice a week. I would suggest test enanthate by galenika or known as ICN's. Have some antiestrogens such as arimidex handy and you should be fine. If you are going to do a cycle do it right. 200mg a week and you will be kicking yourself for not bumping it up. There are people out there doing 1500mg of test a week and are fine. Do the 500mg of test and you will be happy. start small. good luck. If you pm sunfish, he is a certified nutitionist and is around your age, he will develop a cycle and nutritional plan for you. Peace.

 

[skywalk]

My first post here. This looks like a great board.

After years of debating the advantages and disadvantages of AAS, I'm thinking of finally doing my first cycle at the end of January. I've been doing Serostim (GH) since December 1, and am seeing some nice results with definition and body fat reduction, but I want to add some size.

I'm not too in the mix as far as having availability to AAS, but I am able to get some Test (Suspension, I think), and have been told that a 10 week cycle of 200mg/week. Is this something a novice should start with? I'm really nervous about the side effects and need some advice on what to stack with that to keep liver toxicity and aromitization in check. I don't want to become a toxic waste site in the process.

In my research I discovered I really wanted to start out with a cycle of Sustanon, then try a cycle of Sustanon and Deca, but don't have availability to that yet. Is Test Suspension much different from Sustanon?

I'm 40 years old, 6'2 190. I'm hoping that at the end of two cycles, I might have added about 20 pounds of lean muscle. Is that realistic?

Thanks in advance for any replies.

Test suspension has such a short active half life that you will have to do everyday injections. prop can be done every other day, and sust. can be done twice a week. A good generic cycle would include 500mg of test per week, and 300mg of deca per week, for 8-10 weeks.

Contrary to a couple of bros on this board, you WILL need ancillaries during the cycle. Femara is my first choice at 2.5mg eod, then comes arimidex at 0.25mg ED. Some people experience bloat at this dose so 0.5mg of arimidex is taken daily. Estrogen production will cause you to put on fat weight, (you definitely dont want this) contribute to prostate enlargement, and place a lot of stress on your kidneys amongst many other things, and remember that no ancillary will be able to get you to absolute ZERO estrogen. In other words, you'll still be producing estrogen in conjunction with the ancillaries, but they won't be in detrimental levels.

Remember that you will NOT grow merely by taking gear. you need a shitload of food too so make damn sure you have that aspect sorted out.

Post cycle, if you're taking prop, commence PCT 3 days after the last shot. with susp. you can start the day after. Let's see your PCT so we can critique it

Skywalk

 

[sabredude]

Thanks for all the great advice so far. It turns out the Test is Test Cyp not Suspension.

Is 200mg/week too low for a cautious beginner? Is it best to start at that level and potentially increase later after I see if there are any serious side-effects for me.

I'd prefer not to stack Deca, dBol or anything on my first cycle. Am I too cautious?

Here's the advice for ancillaries a good friend has given me. Is this sufficient and a good choice?

Novaldex 20mg/day - entire cycle
Clomid and HCG - at end of cycle

I cannot afford Arimidex.

Thanks again.

 

[skywalk]

Thanks for all the great advice so far. It turns out the Test is Test Cyp not Suspension.

Is 200mg/week too low for a cautious beginner? Is it best to start at that level and potentially increase later after I see if there are any serious side-effects for me.

I'd prefer not to stack Deca, dBol or anything on my first cycle. Am I too cautious?

Here's the advice for ancillaries a good friend has given me. Is this sufficient and a good choice?

Novaldex 20mg/day - entire cycle
Clomid and HCG - at end of cycle

I cannot afford Arimidex.

Thanks again.

Please note that 200mg/wk is barely more than what your body produces naturally. In effect, you will be substituting your own production of testosterone with the gear you inject, shutting your own production down in the process, and producing very very little gains. 400-500mg/wk is a good start for a first cycle. On its own with nothing stacked with it, you'll still have the basis for a decent cycle.

How long are you running the cycle for?

next thing I want to say is your use of nolvadex during the cycle. Nolva is a bad choice, and let me tell you why in laymans terms:
Nolva competes with the estrogen receptors and in so doing it 'blocks off' most of the receptor sites so the actual estrogen can't exert their negative sides on your body. What happens? well for one, your body still aromatises the AAS and you still have a flood of estrogen floating around in your body. Why put up with this when you can prevent aromatisation in the first place, so there's more unaltered gear to make you grow?
Next, once you get off nolva, you will 'unblock' these estrogen receptor sites and you're suddenly assulted with a tidal wave of estrogen. Not a good scenario.
Also, nolva has been reported in numerous texts that i've read, to be antagonistic towards any cycles where the goal is anabolism. in effect, you'll be limiting your gains. To what degree is unknown, as every person is unique.
lastly, you'll save a lot more money if you bought arimidex and took that all the way through, as opposed to nolva all the way through. arimidex is dirt cheap if you know the right sources. If you cant afford it, dont do the cycle. it's that simple. I know you dont need to reminded about how bad estrogen is for your body.....makes you store fat and look like a blob, increases your blood pressure, causes ventricular hypertrophy, can cause kidney failure, makes you grow some nice, womanly breasts, etc...the list goes on. This is your first cycle and we EXPECT you to be going into it fully armed with your ancillaries, for you don't know your genetic predesposition for gyno. Why take chances?

Skywalk

 

[freak]

arimedex is better than nolvadex. but nolva is better than nothing. personally I would never take 20mgs a day of nolva, you'll be whining and crying everytime you see a hallmark commercial on tv, and carrying a box of nose wipes everywhere you go. when I do use nolva, I use 10mgs every other day [EOD].
it does the job just fine for me.
If you use hgh concurrently with a little gear, you should see even better results, than just a gear only cycle. the hgh is gonna help you keep every pound possible of lean body mass you gained when you finish your cycle.
oh, about the nolva, if you have 20mg tabs, just cut them in half, and rock on.
peace -freak-

 

[skywalk]

arimedex is better than nolvadex. but nolva is better than nothing. personally I would never take 20mgs a day of nolva, you'll be whining and crying everytime you see a hallmark commercial on tv, and carrying a box of nose wipes everywhere you go. when I do use nolva, I use 10mgs every other day [EOD].
it does the job just fine for me.
If you use hgh concurrently with a little gear, you should see even better results, than just a gear only cycle. the hgh is gonna help you keep every pound possible of lean body mass you gained when you finish your cycle.
oh, about the nolva, if you have 20mg tabs, just cut them in half, and rock on.
peace -freak-

remember that arimidex and nolvadex are complete different class of compounds. one is an anti aromatase, one is an anti e. Also remember that this person is on his first cycle. Lets not start suggesting the use of GH quite yet, especially when GH use is for the long term AAS user and not the occasional cycler here and there.

Remember too that what works for freak might not work for you. 10mg for him might be a deathwish for you, for you don't know how your body will react to the drugs. Like I said before, seeing as this is your first cycle, do it safe. If you want to play around with dosages, do it after you establish a baseline for yourself with the first couple of cycles, and don't rely on other people's recommendations based on THEIR reactions to gear.

Skywalk

 

[oldman]

Hi sabredude,

I appreciate your caution in getting started. I'm also cautious... -- Like skywalk said establishing a baseline is a good goal. -- Do folks have any suggestions for us newbies on establishing a baseline? or should we just go for it? The excellent sticky posts have you jump right into a 12 week cycle.

sabredude, one thing that you might want to think about is milk thistle for liver protection.
-----
How would it work to do short (4 week cycle) to get our feet wet and learn how our bodies handle the gear? If all goes well, start a 12 week cycle a month after this 4 week cycle.

Bulk cycle test:
Day 1 : 250mg TE + 15mg dbol. (see how it goes)
Day 2-4 : 15mg dbol
day 5 : 500mg TE + 20mg dbol.
day 6-9 : 20 mg dbol
day 10 : 500mg TE + 20mg dbol.
day11-14: 20mg dbol
Cut cycle test:
day 15 : 500mg TE (LAST inj)
day 16-28: 30 mg winny tab + T3

With arimedex every other day, mike thistle every day, and clomid for PCT.

So the goals here are to gain experiece with the gear in a short time and make sure our bodies handle things well before we stock up the gear.

 

[vegas]

Posted by Skywalk

"Also, nolva has been reported in numerous texts that i've read, to be antagonistic towards any cycles where the goal is anabolism".



Hey Skywalk....if you can remember where you read this please post it. I would like to read more on this.....Thanks....Vegas

 

[skywalk]

Vegas, L. Rea does an awesome job of explaining it but let me try to quote a little of what he said here:

"A few athletes have experienced a paradox when using high dosages of Nolvadex. Instead of lowering estrogenic activity, it increased it. What happened was that the Adrenal glands went into over drive producing a pro-hormone called DHEA. DHEA is actually an adrenal androgen normally secreted in lower levels. As circulating levels increased enzymic factors came into play. Research shows DHEA readily converts into androstenedione, and to some extent, estrogens in males."

In other words, instead of keeping the levels of estrogen in check during cycle, it overwelmed the body and flooded the system with estrogen...definitely NOT what the typical AAS user wants, which is Anabolism right?

Nolvadex also decreases the GH and IGF-1 production, while part of the gains made, are a direct result of the anabolic / androgen increasing the GH and IGF-1 production. Thus reducing your possible gains in both strength and size.

Big cat also has his opinion on nolvadex although I do not completely agree with what he said, merely because although estrogen is needed in cycles to upregulate the receptor sites and subsequently increase gains, very little of it is needed. With this in mind, no anti aromatase or anti E is able to completely eliminate ALL estrogen. Which means you still will have some floating around producing the desired effects. So we can dispense with the bullshit that so many people believe about not needing ancillaries till they "show" signs of gyno/estrogen related sides. By then, it may be too late.

Skywalk

 

[vegas]

Good post skywalk.......Thanks...Vegas

 

[skywalk]

you're welcome Vegas...hope it helped

Skywalk

 

[sabredude]

Wow. You guys have really been awesome. Thanks so much for all the help.

I think I can get some Arimidex. I'm also going to up my Test Cyp to 300mg/week from 200. So as of now I'll be doing the Test Cyp (200mg/week) and 1/2mg Arimidex per day. Some Clomid for post-cycle and some Milk Thistle throughout. I'll aslo continue the Sersotim throughout the cycle, probably going off that soon after the cycle ends.

Is this sounding good yet?

 

[mesomember]

Wow. You guys have really been awesome. Thanks so much for all the help.

I think I can get some Arimidex. I'm also going to up my Test Cyp to 300mg/week from 200. So as of now I'll be doing the Test Cyp (200mg/week) and 1/2mg Arimidex per day. Some Clomid for post-cycle and some Milk Thistle throughout. I'll aslo continue the Sersotim throughout the cycle, probably going off that soon after the cycle ends.

Is this sounding good yet?

300mg a week minimum will give gains, but I still say add some 25 mg daily of d-bol for added mass and kickstart..its cheap and in tablet form for convience.

 

[skywalk]

Wow. You guys have really been awesome. Thanks so much for all the help.

I think I can get some Arimidex. I'm also going to up my Test Cyp to 300mg/week from 200. So as of now I'll be doing the Test Cyp (200mg/week) and 1mg Arimidex per day. Some Clomid for post-cycle and some Milk Thistle throughout. I'll aslo continue the Sersotim throughout the cycle, probably going off that soon after the cycle ends.

Is this sounding good yet?

1mg arimidex per day is a bit high. why dont you try 0.5mg ED first. keep us posted!!!

Skywalk

 

[moralanimal]

you seem like a real good guy skyway- knows his s*%# and i have yet to see him flame someone