First cycle advices ... i will start november 2023

[Snake_87]

Hi guys, i'm new in the forum, and i wanted your opinions about my first cycle, that i will start at november 2023 with the bulking program in the next season.
I'm male, 35 years old, many years natural bodybuiding experiece, height 1,72 m (5 feet and 7,7 inches), weight 75 kg (around 165 pounds) with 13,5% body fat, but in winter during the bulk i arrive at 81 kg (around 178 punds) with 16% body fat.

I chose sustanon 250 for first cycle, because it's easier to find for me and there is no big differenze with more used test forms (enanth, cyp) etc....

the cycle will be a test only cycle structured like that:

weeks 1-15: 500 mg sustanon per week, splitted in 2 injections per week: 250 mg (1 ml) monday morning and 250 mg (1 ml) thursday evening;
weeks 1-15: 12,5 mg aromasin ED;

week 16-17: pause to let test leave the body (will go on 12,5 mg aromasin ED)

PCT:
weeks 18-19: 50 mg clomid ED, 40 mg nolvadex ed, 12,5 mg aromasin EOD;
weeks 20-21: 25 mg clomid ED, 20 mg nolvadex ed, 12,5 mg aromasin EOD;
weeks 22-23: 12,5 mg clomid ED, 10 mg nolvadex ed, 12,5 mg aromasin EOD;

Any advice? in particular about dosage/lenght of the cycle... sustanon is ok? i think there is no big difference with test enanth/cyp, and have 4 different esters could be an advantage... with 3.500 calories per day and heavy training 4 days per week how much gains should i expect? About PCT products/dosage/lenght?
Thank you so much for any advice you will want to give me.
(sorry for my bad english).

 

[Deskoze38192]

Does that say 12.5mg aromasin everyday???

If so that’s way way way too much
Aromasin should be used as needed
Bloodwork will tell you when you need to use it
Plan to get bloodwork done week 6-8 to see what your estradiol levels are and go from there. Then you will know how much your body aromitizes 500mg test per week
Everyone is different but I use 10mg aromasin twice per week on 900mg of gear and only once per week 10mg aromasin on 500mg Test. And my E2 stays between 25-35 with that process.
What you require will be different than me because everyone reacts differently but that should be determined with bloodwork. I guarantee it won’t be 87.5 mg of aromasin per week on 500mg test.
Don’t just take an AI for no reason and definitely don’t take 12.5 mg everyday unless you like feeling like death and don’t like getting out of bed lol

500mg just test per week is a wise first cycle. Good choice there

I can’t add anything about PTC because I blast and cruise

 

[fooba]

eat more food. especially with your stats.

taking aromasin when its not needed is stupid. only take it when you notice high e2 sides or have bloodwork indicating so. you will just crash e2 and feel like shit. your pct protocol is stupid. stick to one serm. keep in mind that these are breast cancer medication youre taking. taking an ai throughout your pct is just going to keep your e2 in the shithole while having no test in your body. stop following outdated protocols from the 90s

 

[Breakneck]

If you become sensitive to gyno, make sure you have your Nolvadex on hand before you start using anything.

Imo you should have enough Nolvadex on hand to use in case you start getting the signs of gyno during your cycle.

You could then start using Nolvadex to prevent gyno while your Aromasin works to lower your estrogen levels behind the scenes.

Going with testosterone only is a good start. You'll know how it effects you & later on this will be great info to possess especially when you compound things with other compounds.

With my first cycle of Test I used Aromasin eod. Later on in different cycles I was able to take less of it to test my boundaries. I can take a gram of Test & a gram of Deca a week & take Aromasin once or twice a week & I'm ok. Nolvadex is a great in between so if I get gyno creeping in too fast Nolvadex stops that shit in a day or 2 while I take the Aromasin to lower my estrogen.

 

[EmYYY]

how do you know you need 12,5mg of Aromasin daily?
edit: i just saw your PCT, u must be crazy
stick to 10mg nolvadex for 6-8 weeks and aromasin? what for?
may i ask where do you get your info from?
sustanon is ok but just use test e/c imo

 

[Josep]

As others have said, aromasin if needed, keep the blood work up to date.
Listen to your body
Dosages are OK, personally i would start at 250 for a few weeks and move up if needed

 

[Snake_87]

Thank you so much for your advices guys, so appreciated.
I wanted to use AI because i had a big gyno problem when i was a teenager... i am speaking about the natural testosterone peak male teen have in that age, you know.... so i think i am very prone to high e2 levels, and i wanted to prevent that... but on the other side, it was something like 20 years ago, and, according to your advices, i realize 12,5mg aromasin ed is a huge amount, especially for a beginner cycle...

so according to your advices, the cycle becames:

weeks 1-15: 500 mg sustanon per week, splitted in 2 injections per week: 250 mg (1 ml) monday morning and 250 mg (1 ml) thursday evening;

OPTION 1: weeks 1-15: 12,5 mg aromasin 2 or 3 times per week (adjusting during cycle according to symptoms);
OR
OPTION 2: starting without aromasin, introduce if needed

Assuming i am prone to aromatase... which option is better? And, except for bloodwork... what symptoms/side effects should i monitor in orde to decide to increase/decrease aromasin dosage (or decide to start it for option 2)?

week 16-17: pause to let test leave the body

PCT:
weeks 18-21: Clomid (25/25/12.5/12.5) OR Nolvadex (20/20/10/10)
Aromasin removed

PCT reduced according to advices... i read clomid and nolva work better togheter, but maybe it was exagerated for a beginner cycle. Aromasin removed in order to not destroy my e2 level when not on gear....

for @EmYYY
i read on italian website that aromasin can help to restore endogenous testosterone... i try to translate at my very best "exemestane is a type 1 ai, like a steroid drug (letro and arimidex are type 2), increase free test/bounded test ratio, lower shbg hormon, help restore endogenous test and keep your gains"...

maybe it's a stupid question, but just for my personal knowledge... what happens with very low e2 levels??? i'm just going to feel like s@@t... and nothing else?? or will i negatively affect my muscle gains?

Thank you so much again for your support guys, so appreciated

 

[Snake_87]

Bump!

sorry guys, really don't want to disturb you but i need just a last advice...

Assuming that i am prone to aromatase/gyno, is it good to start with 25mg aromasin per week (splitted in 2 doses x 12,5 mg, monday and thursday, injection days). (if gyno starts 20 mg nolva when needed).

I ask this because someone say i can start with 12,5 mg eod, other start with none and introduce if needed...
could it be 12,5 mg twice per week a good and adjusting from there (nolva just in case of gyno) a good compromise???


Thank you so much for your support.

 

[The Chemistry]

Susta contain long ester which take a long time to get out of your body

So you shouldn’t start your pct after 2/3 weeks but more about 6weeks

 

[EmYYY]

Bump!

sorry guys, really don't want to disturb you but i need just a last advice...

Assuming that i am prone to aromatase/gyno, is it good to start with 25mg aromasin per week (splitted in 2 doses x 12,5 mg, monday and thursday, injection days). (if gyno starts 20 mg nolva when needed).

I ask this because someone say i can start with 12,5 mg eod, other start with none and introduce if needed...
could it be 12,5 mg twice per week a good and adjusting from there (nolva just in case of gyno) a good compromise???


Thank you so much for your support.

You have to start with none. You take Aromasin only when your nips are spicy, high blood pressure, lot of water retention. It acts kind of quickly too.
You don't know if you're a heavy aromatizer, you're just scared.
As for gyno, you check under your nips for lumps. If you feel lumps just take AI, Nolva is the panic button. AI should be enough to reverse the small lumps before they become a full blown gyno.
If you start feeling high E2 sides you take only half Asin. So 12.5, don't be scared and you'll see that's most likely enough.
Also, don't check your nips like a maniac, when you have high E2 you will know it.

 

[EmYYY]

Bump!

sorry guys, really don't want to disturb you but i need just a last advice...

Assuming that i am prone to aromatase/gyno, is it good to start with 25mg aromasin per week (splitted in 2 doses x 12,5 mg, monday and thursday, injection days). (if gyno starts 20 mg nolva when needed).

I ask this because someone say i can start with 12,5 mg eod, other start with none and introduce if needed...
could it be 12,5 mg twice per week a good and adjusting from there (nolva just in case of gyno) a good compromise???


Thank you so much for your support.

You have to start with none. You take Aromasin only when your nips are spicy, high blood pressure, lot of water retention. It acts kind of quickly too.
You don't know if you're a heavy aromatizer, you're just scared.
As for gyno, you check under your nips for lumps. If you feel lumps just take AI, Nolva is the panic button. AI should be enough to reverse the small lumps before they become a full blown gyno.
If you start feeling high E2 sides you take only half Asin. So 12.5, don't be scared and you'll see that's most likely enough.
Also, don't check your nips like a maniac, when you have high E2 you will know it.

And stick to Test. E or C. Don't try to reinvent the wheel. Sustanon would be slightly stabler only if you inject EOD but definitely Sustanon isn't stabler than Test. E or C if injected E3(.5)D.

 

[roadtoswole123]

Hi guys, i'm new in the forum, and i wanted your opinions about my first cycle, that i will start at november 2023 with the bulking program in the next season.
I'm male, 35 years old, many years natural bodybuiding experiece, height 1,72 m (5 feet and 7,7 inches), weight 75 kg (around 165 pounds) with 13,5% body fat, but in winter during the bulk i arrive at 81 kg (around 178 punds) with 16% body fat.

I chose sustanon 250 for first cycle, because it's easier to find for me and there is no big differenze with more used test forms (enanth, cyp) etc....

the cycle will be a test only cycle structured like that:

weeks 1-15: 500 mg sustanon per week, splitted in 2 injections per week: 250 mg (1 ml) monday morning and 250 mg (1 ml) thursday evening;
weeks 1-15: 12,5 mg aromasin ED;

week 16-17: pause to let test leave the body (will go on 12,5 mg aromasin ED)

PCT:
weeks 18-19: 50 mg clomid ED, 40 mg nolvadex ed, 12,5 mg aromasin EOD;
weeks 20-21: 25 mg clomid ED, 20 mg nolvadex ed, 12,5 mg aromasin EOD;
weeks 22-23: 12,5 mg clomid ED, 10 mg nolvadex ed, 12,5 mg aromasin EOD;

Any advice? in particular about dosage/lenght of the cycle... sustanon is ok? i think there is no big difference with test enanth/cyp, and have 4 different esters could be an advantage... with 3.500 calories per day and heavy training 4 days per week how much gains should i expect? About PCT products/dosage/lenght?
Thank you so much for any advice you will want to give me.
(sorry for my bad english).

way to much aromasin my man and also do u plan on running more cycles in the future? ive always thought its best to run a small trt dose in between blast if u plan on doing this as a lifestyle. also depending on how serious your wanting to take it but still be moderate for first cycle adding primo or masteron could be good with your first cycle just my two cents good look bro

 

[The Chemistry]

way to much aromasin my man and also do u plan on running more cycles in the future? ive always thought its best to run a small trt dose in between blast if u plan on doing this as a lifestyle. also depending on how serious your wanting to take it but still be moderate for first cycle adding primo or masteron could be good with your first cycle just my two cents good look bro

Yeah pct for me is when you want to came completely off

 

[Snake_87]

Ok guys, got it.

500 mg test per week and start without ai, just if needed, according to sympthoms and bloodwork, introduce aromasin and nolva if gyno doesn't go away just with ai.

for pct i will use just nolva for 5 or 6 weeks, it should be enough as first cycle.
Thank you so much, really appreciate your support

@roadtoswole123

i swear i didn't even know what "cruise and blast" was before i red it here XD
well... it is not an used approach where i come from... honestly i prefere use the classic approach by cycling on and off and i would want to use my endogenous test until it's on a decent level... my goal is to do some cycle, then try to keep the most part of the gains with diet and hard work... maybe go on trt when i will be older or do some maintainace cycle with non aromatising stuff.., like primo and anavar...

 

[The Chemistry]

Yeah or 350 test 200 primo
Don’t need ai with that

 

[Big_paul]

chose sustanon 250 for first cycle, because it's easier to find for me and there is no big differenze with more used test forms (enanth, cyp) etc..

I believe you will notice a difference. There are a few sources available for test cyp.

Take some advice. Cyp will be better for your 1st cycle and every other cycle until you get old and only want to inject every 2-3 weeks.

You will also have to wait 6 weeks to start your pct . Forget sust for now.

 

[Snake_87]

Ok guys, understood.
I found out pharma quality test c, so no sustanon for now.

So my definitive first cycle:

weeks 1-15: 500 mg test c per week (splitted in x2 injections per week: 250 mg (1ml) monday morning, 250 mg (1ml) thursday evening);

Aromasin and nolva on hand: use just if needed (gyno and other high e2 symphtoms)

weeks 16-17: pause before pct, make test leave the body;

PCT
weeks 18-19: Nolva 40 mg ED
weeks 20-21: Nolva 20 mg ED
weeks 22-23: Nolva 10 mg ED.

don't think i will need HCG as first cycle at this dosage... i hope..

Just 2 questions, if you guys want to share your knowledge with a newbie

1) why exactly wait 6 weeks for pct after sust... the longst ester is decanoate, it should require 3 or 4 weeks at maximum to leave your body, exactly like deca (nandrolone decanoate)... why for sust is 6 weeks? i am missing the point here....

2) for my second cycle i would like to use dbol.... it strongly aromatise, but, for some reasons, i red that aromasin is not adviced because it kills gains from dbol.... is that true?? how is it possible?? and what to take if you want to low your e2 when on dbol??

Thank you very much guys for your patience, you don't imagine how much you helped me here

waiting for november for my first cycle... cross your finger for me

 

[EmYYY]

Ok guys, understood.
I found out pharma quality test c, so no sustanon for now.

So my definitive first cycle:

weeks 1-15: 500 mg test c per week (splitted in x2 injections per week: 250 mg (1ml) monday morning, 250 mg (1ml) thursday evening);

Aromasin and nolva on hand: use just if needed (gyno and other high e2 symphtoms)

weeks 16-17: pause before pct, make test leave the body;

PCT
weeks 18-19: Nolva 40 mg ED
weeks 20-21: Nolva 20 mg ED
weeks 22-23: Nolva 10 mg ED.

don't think i will need HCG as first cycle at this dosage... i hope..

Just 2 questions, if you guys want to share your knowledge with a newbie

1) why exactly wait 6 weeks for pct after sust... the longst ester is decanoate, it should require 3 or 4 weeks at maximum to leave your body, exactly like deca (nandrolone decanoate)... why for sust is 6 weeks? i am missing the point here....

2) for my second cycle i would like to use dbol.... it strongly aromatise, but, for some reasons, i red that aromasin is not adviced because it kills gains from dbol.... is that true?? how is it possible?? and what to take if you want to low your e2 when on dbol??

Thank you very much guys for your patience, you don't imagine how much you helped me here

waiting for november for my first cycle... cross your finger for me

Sustanon contains test. Decanoate. You have to wait like 4 weeks before PCTing. 6 weeks might be too much but 4 definitely.
The compound does not matter. Test or Tren or anything else, it's about the esters.

Aromasin killing the gains from Dbol is bro science. You definitely have to keep E2 under control by using an AI or compounds like Primo if you don't want bitch tits.

 

[Snake_87]

Sustanon contains test. Decanoate. You have to wait like 4 weeks before PCTing. 6 weeks might be too much but 4 definitely.
The compound does not matter. Test or Tren or anything else, it's about the esters.

Aromasin killing the gains from Dbol is bro science. You definitely have to keep E2 under control by using an AI or compounds like Primo if you don't want bitch tits.

Thank you mate, i really appreciate. I have all gear and info i needed, ready to go in november... just wondering if it could be a good idea to add some proviron, like 25 mg per day, it seems very good to take e2 under control without crushing and give an extra boost to the cycle at the same time, because it should improve test effectiveness, in theory... but maybe it's too much for the first time...

 

[Jin23]

Thank you mate, i really appreciate. I have all gear and info i needed, ready to go in november... just wondering if it could be a good idea to add some proviron, like 25 mg per day, it seems very good to take e2 under control without crushing and give an extra boost to the cycle at the same time, because it should improve test effectiveness, in theory... but maybe it's too much for the first time...

You got a tone of bad advice mate.

Don't take sust, it makes no sense. You'll experience more aromatization (due to short esters) and more fluctuations in test levels.

It's not a problem getting test e or c. Plenty of good sources around here.

If you already have preexisting gyno be very careful. The chances of not having higher then 40 e2 on 500mg of test are slim. It's possible, but it's definitely not a standard response. Using a small amount of aromasin, ie: 12.5mg x 2 a week is a very low risk failsafe and I'd advise you to do that.

If you have preexisting gyno also consider a small dose ralox on cycle. Like 30mg ed. This would keep you like 95% safe.

Do not listen to people telling you not to use an ai unless you see e2 sides. High e2 is quite unhealthy and subjective observations of sides is iffy at best. You might not perceive any sides with your e2 at 100 ... High e2 effects everything (as hormones in general do), from mineral ballance, to brain biology ... So keep it below 40 and if you have gyno, probably best to keep it below 30.

Pct dont use both serms, totally unnecessary and masochistic.

Also, seeing how undeucated you are, I'd suggest you do a lot more reading before starting the cycle and maybe hiring somebody to guide you through the whole ordeal.