First cycle bloods 10 weeks in - thoughts?

[Jkeepdrop739]

400mg test c weekly (split MWF), 6.25mg aromasin EOD, 4-5ius daily. <10%bf

I know my inflammatory marker is up - I honestly think it is the Chinese test. All organ markers are in check.

Also - estrogen seems high, but the ratios are good, right? Also - no sides whatsoever.

Thoughts?


CBC With Differential/Platelet

• WBC: 6.1 x10E3/uL
• RBC: 4.73 x10E6/uL
• Hemoglobin: 15.4 g/dL
• Hematocrit: 46.6 %
• MCV: 99 fL
• MCH: 32.6 pg
• MCHC: 33.0 g/dL
• RDW: 14.1 %
• Platelets: 247 x10E3/uL
• Neutrophils: 70 %
• Lymphs: 17 %
• Monocytes: 8 %
• Eos: 4 %
• Basos: 1 %
• Neutrophils (Absolute): 4.3 x10E3/uL
• Lymphs (Absolute): 1.1 x10E3/uL
• Monocytes (Absolute): 0.5 x10E3/uL
• Eos (Absolute): 0.2 x10E3/uL
• Baso (Absolute): 0.0 x10E3/uL
• Immature Granulocytes: 0 %
• Immature Grans (Abs): 0.0 x10E3/uL

Comprehensive Metabolic Panel

• Glucose: 84 mg/dL
• BUN: 13 mg/dL
• Creatinine: 0.90 mg/dL
• eGFR: 109 mL/min/1.73
• BUN/Creatinine Ratio: 14
• Sodium: 140 mmol/L
• Potassium: 4.4 mmol/L
• Chloride: 105 mmol/L
• Carbon Dioxide, Total: 22 mmol/L
• Calcium: 9.0 mg/dL
• Protein, Total: 6.2 g/dL
• Albumin: 4.4 g/dL
• Globulin, Total: 1.8 g/dL
• Bilirubin, Total: 0.5 mg/dL
• Alkaline Phosphatase: 91 IU/L
• AST (SGOT): 40 IU/L
• ALT (SGPT): 32 IU/L

Lipid Panel

• Cholesterol, Total: 128 mg/dL
• Triglycerides: 71 mg/dL
• HDL Cholesterol: 45 mg/dL
• VLDL Cholesterol Cal: 14 mg/dL
• LDL Chol Calc (NIH): 69 mg/dL

Hormones & Related

• Testosterone, Total (LC/MS): 2780.4 ng/dL
• Free Testosterone (Direct): 47.3 pg/mL
• DHEA-Sulfate: 192.0 ug/dL
• Prolactin: 8.7 ng/mL
• IGF-1: 335 ng/mL
• Estradiol, Sensitive (LC/MS): 112.9 pg/mL
• Sex Horm Binding Globulin (SHBG): 44.1 nmol

Other

• Hemoglobin A1c: 4.7 %
• Estimated Avg Glucose (eAG): 88 mg/dL
• C-Reactive Protein, Cardiac: 6.61 mg/L

 

[ShutUpAndPump]

E2 is high imho, ratio is important but these are women levels, test is legit, hgh seems more 3 iu than 5 iu, is generic? The rest is excellent

 

[Eddie.]

You either have bunk aromasin or you're extremely high converter. Estradiol is not just high but very high since this is a sensitive test with a cap of probably 29pg/ml. Maybe switch to arimidex to see if you respond better otherwise i'd take 12,5mg 4-5 times a week and retest in 3 weeks.

Your CRP is indeed high, i wouldn't stick to that gear if it's consistently over 3mg for a long time.

 

[Jkeepdrop739]

You either have bunk aromasin or you're extremely high converter. Estradiol is not just high but very high since this is a sensitive test with a cap of probably 29pg/ml. Maybe switch to arimidex to see if you respond better otherwise i'd take 12,5mg 4-5 times a week and retest in 3 weeks.

Your CRP is indeed high, i wouldn't stick to that gear if it's consistently over 3mg for a long time.

Thanks man. Appreciate you.

My aromasin is true script pharma so I know it’s true. But someone brought up to me that my estradiol is good because my ratio should be 20-30x test / estrogen. They actually suggested I have room to go *up*. I asked someone else and they had the same feeling.

I have zero sides at all. So it is interesting. And that is definitely the number I am trying to figure out if I reduce or keep rolling with it.

 

[Jkeepdrop739]

You either have bunk aromasin or you're extremely high converter. Estradiol is not just high but very high since this is a sensitive test with a cap of probably 29pg/ml. Maybe switch to arimidex to see if you respond better otherwise i'd take 12,5mg 4-5 times a week and retest in 3 weeks.

Your CRP is indeed high, i wouldn't stick to that gear if it's consistently over 3mg for a long time.

I went back and checked some threads here. It does seem consensus it lowering would be good… at least from folks here.

Maybe I’ll double my aromasin as you suggested. I need tio grab some more for sure.

 

[Eddie.]

Thanks man. Appreciate you.

My aromasin is true script pharma so I know it’s true. But someone brought up to me that my estradiol is good because my ratio should be 20-30x test / estrogen. They actually suggested I have room to go *up*. I asked someone else and they had the same feeling.

I have zero sides at all. So it is interesting. And that is definitely the number I am trying to figure out if I reduce or keep rolling with it.

Whoever told you to dial in estradiol with testosterone levels in my opinion doesn't know sh!t. Yes, if you have a 5000 total testosterone might be ok to have an e2 at 50-60 but that's it, after that there are diminishing returns, you only harm yourself and raising the risks of prostate cancer, getting more fat cells in your body etc..

With 400mg test i wouldn't go above 35-40pg in a sensitive test or 50-55pg in a simple test.

 

[buck]

As most blood values in blood tests are not a hard number, without knowing what the range was it is hard for me to know where you stand.
The E2 seems high to me. I have never seen any studies showing where a healthy ratio of T to E2 would be. I just keep mine below the top of the range which some studies has shown top of the range to not be healthy either over the long term.

Why Do Blood Test Results Vary? | Imaware

Getting different results from the same test? It might be more common — and less problematic — than you think. Here are some common reasons for variations.

www.imaware.health

 

[BabaJagga]

Thanks man. Appreciate you.

My aromasin is true script pharma so I know it’s true. But someone brought up to me that my estradiol is good because my ratio should be 20-30x test / estrogen. They actually suggested I have room to go *up*. I asked someone else and they had the same feeling.

I have zero sides at all. So it is interesting. And that is definitely the number I am trying to figure out if I reduce or keep rolling with it.

i think there is issue with aromasin in certain people. for some, probably small, percentage of guys it just doesnt work.
i know 2 guys locally. 100% legit aromasin, same that im using and i know it works, confirmed by several bloods, for them it did nothing. friend was popping 25mg tabs daily and his e2 didnt go down at all.

2 weeks on arimidex and voala, problem solved.

 

[Jkeepdrop739]

As most blood values in blood tests are not a hard number, without knowing what the range was it is hard for me to know where you stand.
The E2 seems high to me. I have never seen any studies showing where a healthy ratio of T to E2 would be. I just keep mine below the top of the range which some studies has shown top of the range to not be healthy either over the long term.

Why Do Blood Test Results Vary? | Imaware

Getting different results from the same test? It might be more common — and less problematic — than you think. Here are some common reasons for variations.

www.imaware.health

There are actually studies that suggest fsvorable health outcomes as you approach 20:1. They’re observational and not conclusive. But there are several of them. I went and read many of them because the feedback I’m getting from folks is wildly different. But there is a HUGE caveat - and that’s none of them deal with super physiological levels. Most people seem to think 80 should be the absolute maximum… including vigorous Steve if my memory serves correctly.

I’m leaning towards doubling my aromasin and seeing what happens. Tasking bloods end of cycle. Thst will help me decide on my second cycle what is best for me. If I start to get achy, then I’ll take some aromasin out.

I appreciate the help on this.

 

[Jkeepdrop739]

i think there is issue with aromasin in certain people. for some, probably small, percentage of guys it just doesnt work.
i know 2 guys locally. 100% legit aromasin, same that im using and i know it works, confirmed by several bloods, for them it did nothing. friend was popping 25mg tabs daily and his e2 didnt go down at all.

2 weeks on arimidex and voala, problem solved.

I’m only doing 6.25mg EOD. So I have a pretty low dose. Probably if I increase to 12.5 or do 12.5, 6.25, 12.5… I’ll be good.

I need to get more, that’s for sure! I have my pharma but will run out soon. Wonder if I should go to my Hepius/stromusc stuff or Indian pharma first.

 

[BabaJagga]

I’m only doing 6.25mg EOD. So I have a pretty low dose. Probably if I increase to 12.5 or do 12.5, 6.25, 12.5… I’ll be good.

I need to get more, that’s for sure! I have my pharma but will run out soon. Wonder if I should go to my Hepius/stromusc stuff or Indian pharma first.

experiment, retest e2 in 2-3 weeks and see.
i wouldnt stay at that high level tbh, sides or not...

 

[Jkeepdrop739]

experiment, retest e2 in 2-3 weeks and see.
i wouldnt stay at that high level tbh, sides or not...

I’ll do that. Thanks. Crazy how much I aromatize. I’m lean. Do lots of cardio. Diet isn’t perfect but not bad.

now def seems like a good time to experiment so I know how to manage this going forward in future cycles.

 

[BabaJagga]

I’ll do that. Thanks. Crazy how much I aromatize. I’m lean. Do lots of cardio. Diet isn’t perfect but not bad.

now def seems like a good time to experiment so I know how to manage this going forward in future cycles.

i dont buy that ussuall "be lean and you wont aromatize much" that is written on internet everywhere. i would say its mostly genetic and fat will change it to some extent but its still mostly genetic. or maybe im wrong.

luckily, you can just use ai and wont have issue with it. it just requires few tests. no need to test all markers all the time imo, just do e2 test. its good learning opportunity, you will have data for future blasts.

 

[RockyP]

The E2 issue is an easy fix as others have recommended - double aromasin and re-check - if still high switch to Adex.

Oh and ditch the chinese oils - they don't agree with you. Not good to run that CRP so high. It's likely the EO, so keep that in mind for future sourcing.

 

[Jkeepdrop739]

The E2 issue is an easy fix as others have recommended - double aromasin and re-check - if still high switch to Adex.

Oh and ditch the chinese oils - they don't agree with you. Not good to run that CRP so high. It's likely the EO, so keep that in mind for future sourcing.

Yea man. You guys are the best here. Appreciate the help.

Re Chinese oils. You know what is crazy. For the last couple of weeks I have felt absolutely spent. I thought it was just because I was lifting heavy etc. But then I actually got cellulitis that began the Friday before my blood test. Took doxycycline and it’s jsut now almost back to normal. But since I ditched the Hepius and got on doxy, my resting heat rate has dropped about 15bpm the last several days and today I went on the best run I’ve had for weeks. 7:50 per mile over four miles and felt amazing.

I was talking to another guy who had the same issue. He said he started filtering his Hepius and his CRP went down. So my next bloods are going to be e2 and hs-crp. Assuming those are good, I’m going to filter some Chinese test when I finish this pharma vial and give it another swing. If crp goes up, I’ll never use it again. EO kills. Ha!

 

[RockyP]

Yea man. You guys are the best here. Appreciate the help.

Re Chinese oils. You know what is crazy. For the last couple of weeks I have felt absolutely spent. I thought it was just because I was lifting heavy etc. But then I actually got cellulitis that began the Friday before my blood test. Took doxycycline and it’s jsut now almost back to normal. But since I ditched the Hepius and got on doxy, my resting heat rate has dropped about 15bpm the last several days and today I went on the best run I’ve had for weeks. 7:50 per mile over four miles and felt amazing.

I was talking to another guy who had the same issue. He said he started filtering his Hepius and his CRP went down. So my next bloods are going to be e2 and hs-crp. Assuming those are good, I’m going to filter some Chinese test when I finish this pharma vial and give it another swing. If crp goes up, I’ll never use it again. EO kills. Ha!

The important thing is now you know.

Yes, definitely filter all the chinese stuff - EO doesn't bother me at all and honestly i find it to be super smooth - but I still filter that shit.

That said, if you got the CRP drawn when having active infection (cellulitis) that could also explain the elevated CRP level. So definitely re-check the CRP once back on the chinese (filtered) oil and see how it is.

 

[Jkeepdrop739]

The important thing is now you know.

Yes, definitely filter all the chinese stuff - EO doesn't bother me at all and honestly i find it to be super smooth - but I still filter that shit.

That said, if you got the CRP drawn when having active infection (cellulitis) that could also explain the elevated CRP level. So definitely re-check the CRP once back on the chinese (filtered) oil and see how it is.

100%. Didn’t realize it was cellulitis until after the blood test. Thought it was just a welt that I get on occasion from this stuff. Needless to say, I threw out the vial. Will retest. Thx for the advice

 

[buck]

There are actually studies that suggest fsvorable health outcomes as you approach 20:1. They’re observational and not conclusive. But there are several of them. I went and read many of them because the feedback I’m getting from folks is wildly different. But there is a HUGE caveat - and that’s none of them deal with super physiological levels. Most people seem to think 80 should be the absolute maximum… including vigorous Steve if my memory serves correctly.

I’m leaning towards doubling my aromasin and seeing what happens. Tasking bloods end of cycle. Thst will help me decide on my second cycle what is best for me. If I start to get achy, then I’ll take some aromasin out.

I appreciate the help on this.

I have not seen those studies you mention so if you could post them then great. If you are talking about 1 point of E2 for every 20 points of T then that would be similar to what i mentioned. Which seems to be 20- 45 with the top of the scale of about 55 for the average guy. Was the optimal long term health outcome better towards the 20/1 of was long term health over the years/decades better with lower levels?
The studies i have seen were mostly all with people that had some health issues later in life.
I don't get to excited about what any 1 youtuber reports as anyone can find some data to back up their opinion. So i just try to find as varied of resources as i can. I have been doing cycles for over 25 years and am happy enough with where the outcome has got me to. But am always open to changing my opinion if i think it is justified.

 

[Jkeepdrop739]

I have not seen those studies you mention so if you could post them then great. If you are talking about 1 point of E2 for every 20 points of T then that would be similar to what i mentioned. Which seems to be 20- 45 with the top of the scale of about 55 for the average guy. Was the optimal long term health outcome better towards the 20/1 of was long term health over the years/decades better with lower levels?
The studies i have seen were mostly all with people that had some health issues later in life.
I don't get to excited about what any 1 youtuber reports as anyone can find some data to back up their opinion. So i just try to find as varied of resources as i can. I have been doing cycles for over 25 years and am happy enough with where the outcome has got me to. But am always open to changing my opinion if i think it is justified.

Amen. I’m 100% with you. I really don’t take into account any single individual opinion or studies. The best reason why - cardarine has studies that says it causes cancer and other studies that show it prevents cancer. So what you going to do!

Here are some of the studies. Again - nothing conclusive. Esp in our population…for full disclosure, I typically ask ChatGPT to find me studies and then I read them. Here is on of a few.

A Review on Testosterone: Estradiol Ratio—Does It Matter, How Do You Measure It, and Can You Optimize It? - PMC

There is a natural balance between the major sex steroids, testosterone and estradiol, controlled by gonadal secretion and peripheral conversion by aromatase. This balance is impacted by a variety of inborn and acquired conditions, and, more ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[Liter O' Test]

my guesstimate, you'll probably wanna try .25mg adex ED next.

aromasin just sucks imo

as others have said some ratio of test to estrogen is absolute bullshit, you need it in normal male range.

dont use chinese oils, not worth saving like $30 a month.

get your estrogen to normal range and use arimidex