Bird1986
New Member
Lol yea probably less then that
MESO-Rx
Anabolic Steroids
first cycle info on not getting scamed
- Thread starter Bird1986
- Start date
Ozzy619
New Member
Your opinions are always appreciated in my book as Im here to learn. Im not a doctor so cant give you a sufficient answer that can be backed up nor have I seen any specific studies for pct. Most everything I have learned has been from here, which can in fact be considered bro science. Before here I was under the impression that either nolva or clomid would suffice as they are almost identical antagonists. I just know what has worked for me to not only recover, but keep some gains post cycle. Since most of us are not under the supervision on a medical doctor, why not give the body its best chance for recovery? Sure, two serms can be overkill, but Id rather take my chances with over doing than skimping it. Also, I always have nolva on hand just in case I do have any gyno flares ups on cycle. As far as hcg, why not?
If any of this is incorrect feel free to correct me, Im here to learn and give out the correct info.
turtleshell
New Member
What do you mean by two serms can be overkill
Ozzy619
New Member
Im referring to a basic test only cycle, nolva and clomid use the same mechanisms of action, but Ill let the doc explain since Im not a true expert on the subject.
turtleshell
New Member
No i get it now. Just trying to get a hang of the meso linguistic. It would be nice if there was a glossary on this site. {*_*} Lol
Ozzy619
New Member
There kind of is, if the word is highlighted in red like this, nolva then you can click and read about it.
Well who said one SERMS is any better than TWO mate! And that is the point, and it IS CLASSIC bro logic (no offense) but just bc we consume a higher dosage of one drug or combine one agent with another does that mean the outcome will be effected? HARDLY my friend.
I've noted many mates reach the same conclusion as rationale for all things PED, seriously! (Like if some is good more is better and bucket loads is best
)Like hey fellas how about if I use 2gms of TT a day will that improve my gains?
Or why not add Relafen a Third SERM to enhance my recovery, it too must have a slightly different mechanism bc "it's bone sparing",,,,,,,,NOT!
Guys SERMS ALL work by binding the HTPA E-2 receptors which thru perhaps some SLIGHTLY different mechanisms (much of this research was conducted on ANIMALS and by the Pharm companies pushing THEIR SERM) results in enhanced LH secretion.
I ask you, do you REALLY think a 28 year old who has never cycled previously and is only using 500mg of TT a week, even NEEDS A SERM?
The fact is young health folk recover just fine wo a SERM, God forbid I say it but, it's been done that way for YEARS before the introduction of SERMS in the late 80-90s.
I'm NOT suggesting anything new here fellas, but you are confusing the presumed benefits of multi drug PCT which is BENEFICAL when stacking potent AAS at high doses.
The bottom line I'm sorry Oz but your NOT improving chances of recovery by using two SERMs in THIS CIRCUMSTANCE but are wasting money and also increasing the probability of adverse effects , IMO
Regs
jim
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Ozzy619
New Member
Well who said one SERMS is any better than TWO mate! And that is the point, and it IS CLASSIC bro logic (no offense) but just bc we consume a higher dosage of one drug or combine one agent with another does that mean the outcome will be effected? HARDLY my friend.
I've noted many mates reach the same conclusion as rationale for all things PED, seriously! (Like if some is good more is better and bucket loads is best
Like hey fellas how about if I use 2gms of TT a day will that improve my gains?
Or why not add Relafen a Third SERM to enhance my recovery, it too must have a slightly different mechanism bc "it's bone sparing",,,,,,,,NOT!
Guys SERMS ALL work by binding the HTPA E-2 receptors which thru perhaps some SLIGHTLY different mechanisms (much of this research was conducted on ANIMALS and by the Pharm companies pushing THEIR SERM) results in enhanced LH secretion.
I ask you, do you REALLY think a 28 year old who has never cycled previously and is only using 500mg of TT a week, even NEEDS A SERM?
The fact is young health folk recover just fine wo a SERM, God forbid I say it but, it's been done that way for YEARS before the introduction of SERMS in the late 80-90s.
I'm NOT suggesting anything new here fellas, but you are confusing the presumed benefits of multi drug PCT which is BENEFICAL when stacking potent AAS at high doses.
The bottom line I'm sorry Oz but your NOT improving chances of recovery by using two SERMs in THIS CIRCUMSTANCE but are wasting money and also increasing the probability of adverse effects , IMO
Regs
jim
Well said Dr. Jim, I cant argue with you at all and no offense taken. Actually glad you clarified it. And you made some pretty damn good points, such as taking 3 serms, what people did before the 90s and "bone sparing," that one made me laugh
. As you already know, most everything that floats around the boards is bro science that is repeated again and again. I admit I am guilty of this, but not from lack of research. Now you have me wanting to ask your opinion on scallys power pct restart protocol. Its kinda like the Matrix, now you have me questioning everything lol.
Great post Jim. There are conflicting opions.
Colt44
Member
Oh I'm quite sure BR is not referring to EVERY mate who has cycled AAS and develops hypogonadism bc MOST WILL RECOVER WO PCT! Now that's just a FACT fellas.
The difference is the time required for HTPA restoration and that's why PCT has become popularized, it MAY shorten the waiting period.
Of course the latter enables one to cycle more frequently while maintaining gains between cycles or at least that's the primary benefit most are after is it not!
I only mention this bc there is a widely held MISCONCEPTION that PCT in someway allows mates to "keep their gains", it DOES NOT! The only thing capable of achieving that goal is continued AAS use.
So to that end as I mentioned a 28 year old who just completed a 10-12 week run of TT at 500 mg per week is just NOT going to have the degree of HTPA suppression as a 38 year old who has completed a 3-4 drug run, at high doses, and has cycled multiple times.
Power PCT! You bet for those individuals WHO NEED IT, and those who are most likely to benefit fit the latter category rather than the former (and the same is true for most noobs for the same reasons I've already mentioned)
Let me put it this way, HTPA recovery may also be expedited by using short chain esters or oral agents at cycles end, and that difference is more important than using two SERMS, in many instances IMO.
Regs
Jim
The difference is the time required for HTPA restoration and that's why PCT has become popularized, it MAY shorten the waiting period.
Of course the latter enables one to cycle more frequently while maintaining gains between cycles or at least that's the primary benefit most are after is it not!
I only mention this bc there is a widely held MISCONCEPTION that PCT in someway allows mates to "keep their gains", it DOES NOT! The only thing capable of achieving that goal is continued AAS use.
So to that end as I mentioned a 28 year old who just completed a 10-12 week run of TT at 500 mg per week is just NOT going to have the degree of HTPA suppression as a 38 year old who has completed a 3-4 drug run, at high doses, and has cycled multiple times.
Power PCT! You bet for those individuals WHO NEED IT, and those who are most likely to benefit fit the latter category rather than the former (and the same is true for most noobs for the same reasons I've already mentioned)
Let me put it this way, HTPA recovery may also be expedited by using short chain esters or oral agents at cycles end, and that difference is more important than using two SERMS, in many instances IMO.
Regs
Jim
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