First cycle, Please input

[4leafclover]

So with low estrogen, you would rather lethargy, and depressive/suicidal moods? To each his own I guess.

You don't learn anything about sides if you never get them, but to each his own. Lot's of people run an AI with relatively no problems, I'm not going to convince you of anything, you've already made up your mind, as have other countless people. But the studies show, that you will leave some mass behind while using an AI/SERM. I get that you're afraid of gyno as are many people, its just not as prevalent as people think, due to internet warriors. There are alternative options...

 

[Burrr]

I actually tried the no AI method my first cycle, and waited till my nips got sore and puffy before starting aromasin. I did no AI week 1-4, then started 3mg ED aromasin. I did bloods at week 6, and still had real high estro. I finished out the cycle at 5mg aromasin ED.
I messed around with dosage, and was quickly able to identify the signs of low e2 when I took too much. I had one shitty day at the gym, and then backed off on the dosage.
While Gyno may be more rare than internet warriors suggest, nobody ever had to get tit reduction surgery because they crashed their E2.

I have almost no acne this cycle (.25 adex EOD), energy is great, gains are great, sides are completely under control. I'm suggesting there is some middle ground here, Not starting a full dose of AI and not skipping it all together. The first cycle is definitely a learning experience.

This is another good reason to start with one steroid, and only add new ones after you learn how your body reacts.

 

[4leafclover]

Now you're just misquoting me... I didn't say don't run an AI at all, I said I don't use them unless I see sides. Most of my cycles I have used 2 pills worth of adex (1 weeks dose) to manage estro, when gyno rears its ugly head.

Like I stated before, acne has nothing to do with estrogen. It has to do with androgens acting on certain receptors. Fact.

I also didn't say you wouldn't gain, what I did say, is that you will lose some potential gains running an AI during your entire cycle.

You have clearly made up your mind, like I posted before. No sense in continuing this debate.

This should come down to two things, if you are looking to build mass, consider putting off using AI/SERM until sides show, use them to manage the side, then discontinue use during your cycle.

If cutting is your goal, use an AI/SERM for the length of cycle, as it will reduce estrogen's ability to bind fat.

This is what the research supports.

 

[A-a-Ron]

Unless I missed it, I didn't see any suggestions to take milk thistle or Liv 52. From what I have always been taught, these are necessities when taking orals. There is a lot of research that shows they help protect the liver and you can pick them up for under $10.