First Cycle - SARMs - Feedback Welcome

[Stealth500]

If you follow things on here people are constantly asking for first cycle advice.
The answer is always the same ; Run test only. Nobody is going to tell you sarms are a good idea. Ostarine is crap imo.

 

[BamaCrazy]

My initial cycle plan suggested Tesamorelin so not sure how that would work if I was scared of needles lol. I'm just coming from a position where I don't want crazy gains, I just want to recomp stubborn fat areas without losing too much muscle. I have already decided I am taking Ostarine, and I said as much in my initial post. At this point telling me to abstain is not harm reduction. If you do have any advice on harm reduction given the fact that I'll be taking Ostarine, I welcome it.

Well, there are needles (subq) and needles (IM). There are a lot of people who will do one but are afraid of the other.

Anyway, if you really want harm reduction advice stay natty. You are barely out of your teens. Osterine is a waste of money and if you read through years of threads on this forum written by a lot of experienced bodybuilders and trainers you will not find anyone recommending SARMS. You will make more progress and put on more muscle mass through diet, training and time than anything you can gain short term with Osterine. At your age I wouldn’t even recommend exogenous testosterone. Your numbers are already in a good place so spend the next 12-24 months learning and training then relook at Peds further down the road. Tesa isn’t a bad idea for visceral fat reduction but it will take several months before you see any benefits and it’s not a cheap peptide.

You are very young and have plenty of time to get to where you want to go, so don’t try to rush.

 

[Slowww]

[

I've done some more thinking and read some of the replies and I'm hearing a similar thing yet I still feel so torn about Ostarine in this case because the literature seems to show that it does actually have some effects, and I've heard great things anecdotally. I'm just struggling to see the rational that a cycle with higher risk and higher reward is necessarily better than one with lower risk and lower growth. I really do want to understand, believe me, as I'd absolutely like to maximize my return on risk.

Let's ignore liver toxicity for sake of discussion and imagine it's out of the picture. Do you think on the basis of suppression alone, test only cycle offers better risk/reward ratio than Ostarine-only cycle taking my age into consideration?

I’ve taken ostarine for a sport that was very cardio heavy when preparing for a competition before and I had problems with libido after. Just because it doesn’t “suppress” your natural test production doesn’t mean it’s side effect free. I’ve seen other guys take it as beginners and they started as skinny fat weaklings and stayed that way because they don’t understand how to train or diet which is the most important. The same guys who hop on sarms really quickly would do better if they were not lazy, and they just learned how to diet, and train consistently.
As a natural you could get shredded in 3 months from 15% body fat. I have a natural friend who was very obese but power lifted for some time, and just listened to advice about diet and cardio and got an amateur Olympia qualification. My point is you’re risking a fair amount for maybe nothing in return, when you could do it all with a little bit of knowledge and work.

 

[dinfar1337]

Stats:
22M
5’9”, 161 lbs, ~14.5% BF

Currently known bloodwork:
Total T: 816
Free T: 113.4
TSH: 1.39
IGF-1: 113

Training consistently for 4+ years

Cycle Layout:
* Ostarine (MK-2866): 15mg ED for 8 weeks
* Tesamorelin: 1mg, 6x/week for 12 weeks

Bloodwork:
* Pre-cycle: Total Test, Free Test, LH, E2, Lipids
* Post-cycle (Week 9): Same panel


PCT Plan (depending on suppression)
* Option A: Enclomiphene 6.25mg ED from Week 4–12
*Option B: Standard PCT starting Week 8–12 at same dose

Diet & Training:
* Calories: 2500–2700/day
* Protein: ~180g/day
* Moderate carbs/fats
* Training 4–5x/week, Chest/back/arms/legs split, ~80 min sessions + 15 min daily cardio



Looking for specific feedback on:
* PCT timing (early enclo vs post-cycle)
* Diet/macros for lean mass focus
* Bloodwork
* Advice for or against stacking
* Anything obvious I’m overlooking
* More information I can provide


Would appreciate constructive feedback before I pull the trigger. I've already decided I want to do a SARM cycle so you're welcome to advise me against it but it might be a waste of your time.

why would you waste your first cycle gains on the 1.3kg muscle mass gained "significant" results. muscle mass is never gonna come on this easy again.
just do 600test and pct if u want a quick in & out

 

[BabaJagga]

My initial cycle plan suggested Tesamorelin so not sure how that would work if I was scared of needles lol. I'm just coming from a position where I don't want crazy gains, I just want to recomp stubborn fat areas without losing too much muscle. I have already decided I am taking Ostarine, and I said as much in my initial post. At this point telling me to abstain is not harm reduction. If you do have any advice on harm reduction given the fact that I'll be taking Ostarine, I welcome it.

im not tellin you anything, do whatever you wanna. i was just askin if you are affraid to pin.

 

[BigTomJ]

SARMs have a much better risk profile when compared to steroids.

You are incorrect here.
Compounds like testosterone and masteron have the lowest risk profile by far.

An enhancement dose of testosterone will have a lower risk than any dose of any combination of SARMs.

Agree with everything else.

 

[BigTomJ]

I understand what you're saying and I'll keep researching and seeing how I can tweak the cycle to balance risk/reward. But the original reply "No peds for you." absolutely was preaching abstinence.

You're 22 and 165 lbs. As others have outlined, your current stats are not indicative of effective training or diet practices.
Without which, your return on using peds is low to nothing.

Nobody is telling you no, they are telling you not yet.
You need to learn how to train and eat properly.

I appreciate that you have done some research, but you are placing far too much stock in flawed studies that you can't properly interpret.
Please respect that these guys, who have decades of experience on you, are all unanimously telling you the same things. You don't know more than they do because you watched a MPMD video or read a study that validates your preconceived plan.

Again, there is zero intelligent reason or excuse to use SARMs for your choice of PED.

. Do you think on the basis of suppression alone, test only cycle offers better risk/reward ratio than Ostarine-only cycle taking my age into consideration?

Yes without question

 

[Ryobi]

Get some orals instead if you scared to inject… sarms are garbage

 

[BigTomJ]

I just want to recomp stubborn fat areas without losing too much muscle

Ostarine will not help with this and you don't have that much muscle to lose.
You will lose exactly zero muscle tissue with proper diet with, or without ostarine.

 

[Stealth500]

All I've seen ostarine accomplish is what looks like some bloat from water retention that goes away after cessation. There is so much misinformation online and I don't know why people think it's good for maintaining lean mass while in a deficit. I observed bloat followed by shriveling.

 

[Nidus]

My initial cycle plan suggested Tesamorelin so not sure how that would work if I was scared of needles lol. I'm just coming from a position where I don't want crazy gains, I just want to recomp stubborn fat areas without losing too much muscle. I have already decided I am taking Ostarine, and I said as much in my initial post. At this point telling me to abstain is not harm reduction. If you do have any advice on harm reduction given the fact that I'll be taking Ostarine, I welcome it.

And just sticking to a GLP like Tirza/Retra and some Test which would be the smartest option in your case with maybe 2-3iu of GH never came across your mind?

I mean, you picked out studies and read so some basic research took place but why do you not go with something that is proven to work, well established and fail safe?

I mean, 200-250mg of Test, some Retra, a few IU's of GH, proper food, cardio, good training and sleep. Thats it. Its no rocket science.

Anyways, many users such as BigTomJ gave you really damn good advice here. Listen to them, they are not idiots and have been around for a while.

 

[intense_bulldoze]

No peds for you.

Nobody is telling you no, they are telling you not yet.

How bout say what you mean and mean what you say then? You could have said that initially and left out your actual 'no PEDs for you.' You did not.

Other than that, I mostly agree. SARMs are a waste of money. OP should get blood tests. He could be low on total test and benefit from HRT and if not, he should start with proper diet and training before thinking of using PEDs.

 

[salladen]

He is going to use OStarine and he does not care what everyone has to tell him. Typical kid

 

[BamaCrazy]

He is going to use OStarine and he does not care what everyone has to tell him. Typical kid

Yea. I was once like that too. Then I got the paddle and I changed my ways.

 

[intense_bulldoze]

Yea. I was once like that too. Then I got the paddle and I changed my ways.

The paddle wasn't around in my youth (forums were too new).
It was all trial and error and what little research was available.

I feel lucky I didn't experience more major issues.

 

[cargin]

And just sticking to a GLP like Tirza/Retra and some Test which would be the smartest option in your case with maybe 2-3iu of GH never came across your mind?

I mean, you picked out studies and read so some basic research took place but why do you not go with something that is proven to work, well established and fail safe?

I mean, 200-250mg of Test, some Retra, a few IU's of GH, proper food, cardio, good training and sleep. Thats it. Its no rocket science.

Anyways, many users such as BigTomJ gave you really damn good advice here. Listen to them, they are not idiots and have been around for a while.

Thank you! Great plan. Sorry, I just said I was hellbent on Ostarine because saying anything else was just getting me replies telling me to abstain rather than any working alternative. I'm not actually married to the idea of SARMs lol but I honestly wasn't getting any cycle suggestions given my stats.

 

[dinfar1337]

Thank you! Great plan. Sorry, I just said I was hellbent on Ostarine because saying anything else was just getting me replies telling me to abstain rather than any working alternative. I'm not actually married to the idea of SARMs lol but I honestly wasn't getting any cycle suggestions given my stats.

testosterone testosterone testosterone testosterone

 

[CFH016]

Sarms are useless. Even on a trt dose you'll get more gains than sarms, just by having consistent and steady test levels. We've all tried them and we know from experience.

If you want to add more to it where you won't add too much size but will still get good solid gains, add some anavar. The first time I tried anavar (with 250mg test/week) I couldn't get sore no matter how hard I tried. My favorite oral ever since. Sarms might as well be classified as supplements.

But I agree with the others saying nothing yet. Your natural test levels are good enough to see really good gains, and your stats prove that you still have a lot of room to make them naturally. I don't know how strict you are with your diet or how hard you work in the gym/tracking workouts, but those stats make me feel like you aren't really doing much after 4 years of working out

 

[Slowww]

Thank you! Great plan. Sorry, I just said I was hellbent on Ostarine because saying anything else was just getting me replies telling me to abstain rather than any working alternative. I'm not actually married to the idea of SARMs lol but I honestly wasn't getting any cycle suggestions given my stats.

It’s not just stats bro, you really need to have a plan laid out. PEDs can be either a game changer or do very little depending on how well you execute the diet plans, and training protocol.
First you need to do what creates the change, not what augments the speed. If there is no change it doesn’t matter how much the PEDs will expedite the process.
If you’re dead set on peds, probably just test is ok, short ester so it clears out faster

 

[cargin]

It’s not just stats bro, you really need to have a plan laid out. PEDs can be either a game changer or do very little depending on how well you execute the diet plans, and training protocol.
First you need to do what creates the change, not what augments the speed. If there is no change it doesn’t matter how much the PEDs will expedite the process.
If you’re dead set on peds, probably just test is ok, short ester so it clears out faster

Won't test cause acne and hair loss?