First cycle - some thoughts

[winther]

Having tried every bogus supplement imaginable, I finally decided to go for the real thing. I'm fed up with this crap and have wasted an enormous amount of time and money. Besides - I have gained zero muscle for the last 6 months. At the moment I'm 1.87 / 90kgs.
It seems to me that Dbol & Deca are extremely favoured and that it's a very good stack, giving you solid gains.
I plan to start of with a Dbol (oral) cycle only though (not too keen on the needle - yet), and I know where I can get the pink Thai Dbols.
From what I read in this forum, liver toxicity from oral steroids can be a problem though - but is it really a problem you are likely to experience within 10 weeks?
It seems like everybody here are stacking, so what gains can I expect from a Dbol only cycle, and is it even worthwhile?
Finally - will Clomid be necessary after this cycle or can tribulus do the job?

 

[MaxRep]

1. Lay out your cycle. How much, how often and how long.
2. What are you going to do to prevent gyno from the dbol?
3. What are your goals?
4. What will you take to protect your liver from a 10 week oral cycle?
5. If you think clomid and tribulus are similar in effect, you have a lot more studying to do.
6. At your height and weight, if you've gained nothing over the last 6 months, you have yet to learn how to train and eat properly. Taking AAS will not help when you don't train or eat right. It would be beneficial for you to first spend time in the training and nutritional forums.

Good luck,
MaxRep

 

[superman15]

whats up bro. Honestly i dont think you know near enough about aas to start on a cycle. I have been on this board for 5 or 6 months and im still learning. Make sure you know all your options. Everyone knows that you shouldnt take deca by itself. Yea i know you are taking dbol, but you cant stay on it long enough to deal with some of the deca side effects. Alot of people are going to tell you to use some form of test. For a first cycle use test enenthate or cypionate. clomid or tribulus by itself will not help out with deca that much.

 

[tigerdog]

LOL superman15......I hear you bro.
I've been doing this since 1987 and I am still learning things

Winther- Heed the words of wisdom and experience from MaxRep.......I agree with him and don't feel you are quite ready to take the jump to the next level either. Follow his 1-6 items he listed for you. Study, learn , and make a more educated decision what to do for yourself a little later down the road. Best of luck to you...

-Tdog

 

[winther]

Thanks for your response.
I have made some thought about the 6 points MaxRep mentions, but being a novice I may be wrong. Here is my plan so far:

1. The cycle is 10 weeks, 6 tablets a day (30mg). Intake 3 times a day.

2. If gyno is really a problem with Dbol (Im still not clear about this), Nolvadex or Proviron is an option.

3. At the moment I am quite defined, but I would like my muscles to have a fuller look something I have been working on since 98. When I started I was very skinny, 76 kgs today Im 89-90kgs. But Ive reached a plateau now, even though I alter my training routine regularly.
Dont do cardio, do low reps/heavy weight, push myself like a maniac in the gym, eat so much I disgust people around me, sleep 8-9 hours a night - in general, live up to all the basic rules of body building.
My goal at the moment is to gain approx 7kgs of quality muscle, but Im not willing to fight 4 years for that (Im 28) is this goal realistic on a Dbol cycle?

4. Im yet to discover what minimizes liver toxicity.
5. Yeah Tribulus is a weak comparison (another hyped, useless product?). Clomid should work. I will take 50-100mgs a day (not sure about the exact amount) for two weeks, after completing my cycle.
6. As mentioned Ive been working out since 98, and I have studies all aspects of bodybuilding and recently the use of AAS.
My metabolism is extremely high (even my doctor confirmed that), and it seems like my body is fighting to get back to my natural skinny look. The minute I get hungry, I feel my muscles being eaten awayJ
Its been a real struggle gaining these 14kgs, and I feel my body refuses to accept more muscle mass it needs an extra kick, and I feel ready for the next level.

Btw I dont plan doing Deca alone. In future I may stack Dbol & Deca (have to get use the needle though, or Dbol and Primobolan (heard its good for cutting up, and Primo has less side-effects). Actually, did anyone have positive experience with Primo alone?

Thanks for your patience!

1. Lay out your cycle. How much, how often and how long.
2. What are you going to do to prevent gyno from the dbol?
3. What are your goals?
4. What will you take to protect your liver from a 10 week oral cycle?
5. If you think clomid and tribulus are similar in effect, you have a lot more studying to do.
6. At your height and weight, if you've gained nothing over the last 6 months, you have yet to learn how to train and eat properly. Taking AAS will not help when you don't train or eat right. It would be beneficial for you to first spend time in the training and nutritional forums.

Good luck,
MaxRep

 

[nick e. guns]

What you have laid out is probably going to give you maximum side effects and minimal gains. Very poorly planned. Assuming that you are eating plenty of protein and training correctly, you should try a test only cycle at 500 mgs a week (enanthate or cypionate). Get over the needle thing you are 28 for Chrissake. Add nolvadex at 10-20 mgs per day to prevent gyno and bump the clomid to three weeks with the first week dosage at 150. The dbol is a good way to kickstart your cycle as the test won't kick in for a few weeks. Use milk thistle and ALA to protect your liver. Follow that and you will reach your goals or follow yours and be severely disappointed. I strongly suggest you do more research on your own before doing anything.

 

[winther]

This is the kind of response I need...
Except for not being very toxic on the liver, what is the advantage of test - if for instance comparing it to Dbol and Deca?
So what you are saying is, Dbol only is not suitable for an entire cycle? That'd just prove that several of my friends don't do their studies!
hehe - I'll stop bitching about the needle...

What you have laid out is probably going to give you maximum side effects and minimal gains. Very poorly planned. Assuming that you are eating plenty of protein and training correctly, you should try a test only cycle at 500 mgs a week (enanthate or cypionate). Get over the needle thing you are 28 for Chrissake. Add nolvadex at 10-20 mgs per day to prevent gyno and bump the clomid to three weeks with the first week dosage at 150. The dbol is a good way to kickstart your cycle as the test won't kick in for a few weeks. Use milk thistle and ALA to protect your liver. Follow that and you will reach your goals or follow yours and be severely disappointed. I strongly suggest you do more research on your own before doing anything.

 

[winther]

Btw - if I follow your advice and use test - isn't Sustanon a better choice than enanthate or cypionate?

What you have laid out is probably going to give you maximum side effects and minimal gains. Very poorly planned. Assuming that you are eating plenty of protein and training correctly, you should try a test only cycle at 500 mgs a week (enanthate or cypionate). Get over the needle thing you are 28 for Chrissake. Add nolvadex at 10-20 mgs per day to prevent gyno and bump the clomid to three weeks with the first week dosage at 150. The dbol is a good way to kickstart your cycle as the test won't kick in for a few weeks. Use milk thistle and ALA to protect your liver. Follow that and you will reach your goals or follow yours and be severely disappointed. I strongly suggest you do more research on your own before doing anything.

 

[MaxRep]

Btw - if I follow your advice and use test - isn't Sustanon a better choice than enanthate or cypionate?

Winther,
Sust, with its 4 esters, can be said to be equal to enan or cyp but would seldom be considered a better choice unless there was a specific purpose or reason.

Regarding your statement:

"My metabolism is extremely high (even my doctor confirmed that), and it seems like my body is fighting to get back to my natural skinny look. The minute I get hungry, I feel my muscles being eaten awayJ
Its been a real struggle gaining these 14kgs, and I feel my body refuses to accept more muscle mass it needs an extra kick, and I feel ready for the next level."

All this tells me is you're not eating enough. You think you're eating a lot but that's only relative to the non-bodybuilder or lady sitting next to you. Lay out your daily food intake, complete with exact number of grams of protein, carbs and fat. Are you really eating at least 400 grams of protein every day and 5,000 calories every day? Most people your size will gain eating this much but let's say you can't. All that means is that for you, it's not enough. Whatever your caloric intake is, increase your daily calories by 1,500 for 2 weeks and then see what's happened to your weight. I would be willing to bet that your muscles will blossom as no matter how much you think you're eating a lot, your muscles are currently being starved.

Something most people don't understand is that to get big, you don't eat when you're hungry. You stuff yourself every 2 hours, every waking moment. After 2 hours, when you're still feeling quite full from your last meal, you stuff yourself again. You put your muscles into an environment where they are being overloaded with nourishment every minute of the day and as long as your training and rest are right, you will grow.

Good luck,
MaxRep

 

[Grizzly]

I'd like to point out that "chaning [your] routine frequently" is also not the best idea. Forget the "shocking/confusing" your muscles crap that you read in the magazines. Honestly, if your routine is appropriate you can follow it every week from here on out until you stop training and STILL make gains with the exact workout from 2 years ago.

The only changes would be to go through periods of loading and periods of unloading. THAT is the only thing you need to change frequently.

 

[nick e. guns]

Agreed with Max about Sust. Split enanthate or cyp into two shots of 250 mgs per week say Monday and Thursday. Also, I if you are not following proper nutrition principles, it won't matter what steroids you take, you can expect to lose all of your gains post-cycle. Make sure you are eating right. IMO and most others here, test is the best steroid available. It is inexpensive, very effective, a naturally occuring substance in the human body, and while it does suppress your HPTA quite a bit, it is easy and predictable to recover from post-cycle. Throw the deca in your next cycle with test as the base. For now, with your goals, you don't need it.