First Test Cicle @ 500mg

[sepsin]

In another forum, I mentioned that for a first cycle it is recommended to start test @ 300mg to gauge aromatization, and only then up the dose slowly to 500mg (according to MPMD advice).

But another (supposed “high knowledge”) user mentioned this



what do you guys think of this?

especially the line “99% of people don’t need AI on daily pins @ 500mgs”

he’s talking abt test P, btw

 

[Elektrobot]

ohh I see.

So 2-3 weeks minimum before bloodwork on Test P, alright.

Have you ran test before? Do you know how you respond to it?

How do your other hormones respond?

If you aromatize to estrogen so much that you need an AI, that's going to push aromatization to DHT and your going to lose hair

If you have high shbg, your free test is going to be bound up and ineffective despite having a high total test

You need a snapshot of how your body rebalances when you use exogenous testosterone before you can build a plan.

 

[sepsin]

I understood fully, my brain questions ignorant speech, or in this case text.


This is exactly why it is a blanket statement regardless of how it’s being defended. Saying “99% don’t need AI” is still a blanket claim because...

There is no datasetand there is no quantified population of AAS users worldwide, no controlled trials at 500 mg/week with daily pinning, and no data that can support a 99/1 split. Without measurable population data, any percentage claim is rhetorical, not factual. “99%” is not evidence it’s persuasion language. Saying 99% is not meant to be precise; it’s meant to imply near universality. That’s the textbook definition of a blanket statement...

“Almost everyone behaves this way, therefore you should too.”

Individual estrogen response is highly variable in aromatase activity differs widely due to genetics (polymorphisms), body fat, injection frequency helps stability but does not eliminate conversion, liver clearance, and SHBG differences.


You can have two people pinning daily at 500 mg with completely different E2 outcomes. That alone invalidates any “99%” claim. Again blanket. “Correct ancillaries” is vague and contradictory if the argument is...

“Have ancillaries ready”, but also “99% won’t need AI" then the AI is simultaneously unnecessary for almost everyone, necessary enough to prepare for however.

That contradiction exists because the claim isn’t evidence-based it’s ideology... and a demon in conversation. Daily pinning, estrogen immunity is also false to a large degree, is flat out wrong. Daily injections reduce peaks and troughs, not total aromatization. Estrogen production is still dose dependent. Frequency smooths levels it does not negate conversion

high IQ explanation

thanks for the effort.

 

[sepsin]

Have you ran test before? Do you know how you respond to it?

How do your other hormones respond?

If you aromatize to estrogen so much that you need an AI, that's going to push aromatization to DHT and your going to lose hair

If you have high shbg, your free test is going to be bound up and ineffective despite having a high total test

You need a snapshot of how your body rebalances when you use exogenous testosterone before you can build a plan.

I’ve never ran test before.

I’ll get bloodwork done (full panel) next week to asses e2, free test, total test, IGF-1 lvls, SHBG, etc.

And I plan on starting Test P (ED) at 300mg/week and gauge aromatization from there.

Then, I’ll up the dose by 50mg every 2-3 weeks with bloodwork (like u mentioned), to see how much I can handle w/o an AI

 

[prher]

I understood fully, my brain questions ignorant speech, or in this case text.


This is exactly why it is a blanket statement regardless of how it’s being defended. Saying “99% don’t need AI” is still a blanket claim because...

There is no datasetand there is no quantified population of AAS users worldwide, no controlled trials at 500 mg/week with daily pinning, and no data that can support a 99/1 split. Without measurable population data, any percentage claim is rhetorical, not factual. “99%” is not evidence it’s persuasion language. Saying 99% is not meant to be precise; it’s meant to imply near universality. That’s the textbook definition of a blanket statement...

“Almost everyone behaves this way, therefore you should too.”

Individual estrogen response is highly variable in aromatase activity differs widely due to genetics (polymorphisms), body fat, injection frequency helps stability but does not eliminate conversion, liver clearance, and SHBG differences.


You can have two people pinning daily at 500 mg with completely different E2 outcomes. That alone invalidates any “99%” claim. Again blanket. “Correct ancillaries” is vague and contradictory if the argument is...

“Have ancillaries ready”, but also “99% won’t need AI" then the AI is simultaneously unnecessary for almost everyone, necessary enough to prepare for however.

That contradiction exists because the claim isn’t evidence-based it’s ideology... and a demon in conversation. Daily pinning, estrogen immunity is also false to a large degree, is flat out wrong. Daily injections reduce peaks and troughs, not total aromatization. Estrogen production is still dose dependent. Frequency smooths levels it does not negate conversion

decided to ask chatgpt lol? cos that’s what is reads like exactly.

when someone says 99%, it is representing the vast majority of people. no one was ever referring to studies or data when saying “99% do this” or whatever. it’s a figure of speech representing the majority of ppl not an exact value. stopped reading there tbh since that should be common sense so you likely didn’t make any valid point after sincere you can’t understand simple phrases commonly used in human interaction.

 

[BALLISTIC]

high IQ explanation

thanks for the effort.

I have a profound dedication to things that genuinely interest me. I wouldn’t claim a high IQ. I simply go all in on things I consider valuable.

I’ll also say this, as a younger member in this forum, you’ve approached everything extremely well, especially compared to what we’ve been dealing with lately. Keep it up. The older members do pay attention, and they’re far more inclined to help when they see their time isn’t being wasted on deaf ears.

 

[null88]

What is the fascination of test prop and these new members? idk who would choose test-p over test-c unless they needed to clear the drug from their system in a short time frame or were doing a short cycle.

 

[Elektrobot]

What is the fascination of test prop and these new members? idk who would choose test-p over test-c unless they needed to clear the drug from their system in a short time frame or were doing a short cycle.

I'm 48 and test-p is working better for me than test-c

The test is test theory is short sighted.

Each person responds to different length esters and peaks differently.

I thought for sure test cyp was going to be the best choice for me- because thats what everyone says is the best. Pinned test cyp 15mg every day, ended up with a 95 estriodial, 60 something shbg, 1,680 total test and only 170 free test.

Dropped the cyp, started prop, things improved.

 

[BALLISTIC]

decided to ask chatgpt lol? cos that’s what is reads like exactly.

when someone says 99%, it is representing the vast majority of people. no one was ever referring to studies or data when saying “99% do this” or whatever. it’s a figure of speech representing the majority of ppl not an exact value. stopped reading there tbh since that should be common sense so you likely didn’t make any valid point after sincere you can’t understand simple phrases commonly used in human interaction.

No...unfortunately, my career path requires a great deal of documentation, proper punctuation, and clear communication. I get it wrong quite often nonetheless. I started out with pen and paper, not shortcuts. Calculations were done deliberately, and errors weren’t theoretical.

In my profession, a mistake can have catastrophic consequences for the lives of others. Being correct is necessity.

That said, this convo seems less about clarification and more about arguing because you appear to be incorrect, which is a very human response. The “go wrong, stay wrong” mentality is common.

Good luck to you.

Your point validated "blanket statement" you're doing great buttercup.

 

[dinfaralt]

you have three options:

nuke e2 with ai and die from low e2

take nolvadex or another breast cancer drug to nuke the estrogen receptors in your tits with 500 test to avoid permanent side effect(gyno)

start trt and gauge e2 levels and tiltrate up and do another lab 4 weeks after that and then add ai as you a go slowly, preferably with nolvadex in the mix aswell. no need to cicle 500 test, just run max 250mg first cycle

you decide.

option 1: tiktok stack

option 2: reckless but ok stack

option 3: safe but unfun stack

growth on all 3: probably around the same, dosages dosent matter this much early on

 

[Cman90]

What is the fascination of test prop and these new members? idk who would choose test-p over test-c unless they needed to clear the drug from their system in a short time frame or were doing a short cycle.

It's these fucking lookmaxxings TikTokers. Their overlord who is trending, Clavicular, recommends every young man should start taking test prop and gh as soon as possible.

It's a dead give away every time I see a new member saying they want to do test prop and asking to be spoonfed.

 

[dinfaralt]

It's these fucking lookmaxxings TikTokers. Their overlord who is trending, Clavicular, recommends every young man should start taking test prop and gh as soon as possible.

It's a dead give away every time I see a new member saying they want to do test prop and asking to be spoonfed.

 

[sepsin]

It's these fucking lookmaxxings TikTokers. Their overlord who is trending, Clavicular, recommends every young man should start taking test prop and gh as soon as possible.

It's a dead give away every time I see a new member saying they want to do test prop and asking to be spoonfed.

yes, you’re right I’ve came from TikTok and a lot of recommendations in regards to test P comes from looksmaxing forums.

But I obv took that w/ a grain of salt, but even after spending a good amount of days on research of all these compounds I feel like test P seems to be the best.

at least anecdotally everyone that switches from C or E to P, seems to like it a lot

 

[dinfaralt]

at least anecdotally everyone that switches from C or E to P, seems to like it a lot

start with c or d, get comfortable with pinning once weekly before you cripple your shoulders and quads everyday

 

[Cman90]

yes, you’re right I’ve came from TikTok and a lot of recommendations in regards to test P comes from looksmaxing forums.

But I obv took that w/ a grain of salt, but even after spending a good amount of days on research of all these compounds I feel like test P seems to be the best.

at least anecdotally everyone that switches from C or E to P, seems to like it a lot

Learn something from this crybaby looksmaxxer who got banished back to TikTok.

S

Thread 'A cry for help - Extreme pip after using test propionate 200mg/ml'

Saturday at 6:30 PM

Complete newbie here, started my first cycle 4 days ago. Have been doing everyday injections 0.2 ml which is 40 mg of Test prop 200mg/ml vial. First few hours it does not hurt at all but the next day, it feels as if someone stabbed me or shot me with a gun in that muscle. How do I deal with this pip? Is it common?

• SeriosReborn
• Replies: 48
• Forum: Steroid Forum

 

[sepsin]

Learn something from this crybaby looksmaxxer who got banished back to TikTok.

S

Thread 'A cry for help - Extreme pip after using test propionate 200mg/ml'

Saturday at 6:30 PM

Complete newbie here, started my first cycle 4 days ago. Have been doing everyday injections 0.2 ml which is 40 mg of Test prop 200mg/ml vial. First few hours it does not hurt at all but the next day, it feels as if someone stabbed me or shot me with a gun in that muscle. How do I deal with this pip? Is it common?

• SeriosReborn
• Replies: 48
• Forum: Steroid Forum

not sure why you’re being so agressive lol.

but if you actually read the thread you sent, you’d see that people point out the main problem being the concentration (200mg/ml)

Either way, you can state that the PIP of P is slightly worse than on C or E, yeah. But not to the point that guy is describing (unless u use a concentration like that).

Once again, you’re correct, I’ve came from TikTok and looksmaxing forums, and I’m young and stupid, but I actually did some research before opening my mouth in here.

 

[Cman90]

not sure why you’re being so agressive lol.

but if you actually read the thread you sent, you’d see that people point out the main problem being the concentration (200mg/ml)

Either way, you can state that the PIP of P is slightly worse than on C or E, yeah. But not to the point that guy is describing (unless u use a concentration like that).

Once again, you’re correct, I’ve came from TikTok and looksmaxing forums, and I’m young and stupid, but I actually did some research before opening my mouth in here.

I'm not being aggressive towards you sir. I appreciate the approach you've taken in this forum so far, and would be happy to help you along if I can.

There's been quite a few new members recently of the Looksmaxxing variety that have been disrespectful and blinded by ignorance. That's where my distain for Looksmaxxing comes from lol.

The Looksmaxxer noobs tend to come her to say they want to do test prop, we tell them it's a bad idea, they tell us we're wrong and they know better, then they cry like little babies.

Welcome to meso

 

[BALLISTIC]

not sure why you’re being so agressive lol.

but if you actually read the thread you sent, you’d see that people point out the main problem being the concentration (200mg/ml)

Either way, you can state that the PIP of P is slightly worse than on C or E, yeah. But not to the point that guy is describing (unless u use a concentration like that).

Once again, you’re correct, I’ve came from TikTok and looksmaxing forums, and I’m young and stupid, but I actually did some research before opening my mouth in here.

He's not being aggressive. He's pointing out... this cum stain failed to have etiquette and remain humble. The best part of him ran down his mom's legs. Go to his post history and you'll see. That post was his first. This post wasn't his, and he became king of AAS because TikTok told him.

Thread 'First Test Cycle Dosing Advice' First Test Cycle Dosing Advice


Test C is usually the better choice for starting out because it provides stable blood levels and a larger margin for error. The longer half life means fewer injections, smoother hormone levels, and side effects that develop gradually. Thus making estrogen management and troubleshooting much easier while you learn how your body responds. (See the post by Elektrobot #27) He give a different insight from personal lessons.

Test P isn’t bad, it’s just less forgiving. It peaks and clears quickly, requires frequent injections, and imbalance shows up fast. That’s why it’s typically used strategically, not as a beginner foundation. One common use is as a bridge or front load. You can front load (bolus) Test C to speed up reaching steady levels, while using Test P briefly to provide immediate testosterone until the long ester fully kicks in. Once Test C is active, the propionate is dropped.

Bottom line is Test C is the simplest and smartest base when starting out. Test P is always an option, but it’s best used intentionally once you understand your response not as the primary foundation.

I'm just learning about "Max looking" or whatever the trend is. I'm and Elektrobots age and literally have no social media. That's not a lie it's truth, none.

 

[atruse]

No one has mentioned the ester weight of prop vs C or E.
It’s not drastic, but something to consider as well.


Also different esters effect people differently, my heart rate sky rockets on Prop ester compounds, so I don’t use them, and stick to longer esters, still pinning ED.

I would get a heart rate monitor and monitor your blood pressure regularly, they’ll probably be in range, but the more data you can collect the better.

Generally the more compounds you add your RHR will go up, so if you plan to add GH or a GLP1 it’s something to expect and can plan ahead.
Another reason cardio is important lol

Good luck with everything
Let us know when u start

 

[Cman90]

@sepsin those guys just dropped some elite ball knowledge.

From what I've seen, Clav's take on why test P is superior is because he claims it provides more stable hormone levels. He is mistaken. I think he got it from its injection frequency needing to be ED or EOD. Not really sure.

The thing is, you can pin test C every day too, and because it's half-life is much longer, you'll have far greater hormonal stability than test P.

I'll probably never do test P. Cypionate is super smooth, stable, and PIP free. I don't see why I would ever change esters, unless there is a gear shortage.

Hope this helps. I'm not hating on prop, just wanted you to know the reality of it outside of Looksmaxing and TikTok lol. Who knows, maybe it aligns with your goals the best and you'll enjoy it.

Good luck to you sir

 

[sepsin]

@sepsin those guys just dropped some elite ball knowledge.

From what I've seen, Clav's take on why test P is superior is because he claims it provides more stable hormone levels. He is mistaken. I think he got it from its injection frequency needing to be ED or EOD. Not really sure.

The thing is, you can pin test C every day too, and because it's half-life is much longer, you'll have far greater hormonal stability than test P.

I'll probably never do test P. Cypionate is super smooth, stable, and PIP free. I don't see why I would ever change esters, unless there is a gear shortage.

Hope this helps. I'm not hating on prop, just wanted you to know the reality of it outside of Looksmaxing and TikTok lol. Who knows, maybe it aligns with your goals the best and you'll enjoy it.

Good luck to you sir

I greatly appreciate this help.

Thank you, sir