If u want to get an appetite drink 6 cups of milk back to back 2 times a day for 3 weeks. Probably not great for body composition but I can eat now that’s forsure. 4k calories easy. Mostly s that was after slamming 2 plates of ribs and mashed potatoes that equaled 1300 calories and then a protein shake
MESO-Rx
Anabolic Steroids
First-timer questions
- Thread starter MartinHaze
- Start date
Test_Subject
Member
To be fair, I got pretty fat over the winter that year, lol. It's not like I went from 10% to 6%. More like 16% to 12%.
lol, pretty much.
I cheat, I'll crush a bacinator meal (1500 cals)
smash some mass mutant for 2k calories and fill in the rest with clean foods.
Even with those, the food is still a struggle.
MartinHaze
New Member
So, first of all thanks everyone for their contribution. I'll respond to this particular post, since it summarizes the thoughts from many others.
"Somewhat decent food plan" is about 2,000 calories a day (whole foods, no junk really), currently, and as I said that figure was enough to steadily lose a bit of weight without the assistance from the drugs. The macros should be on point, micronutrients should just about all be there. If that's not good enough, then I'll gladly take inputs.
And +Tren or +Clen should give the extra boost. Doesn't mean "now I take Tren so I can treat myself to some icecream for a midnight snack", it means "I keep the rest the same, I add Tren, I should burn fat faster".
Adding cardio is not out of the question, just depends on how much extra energy the steroids will give.
If (where) you see a flaw in the logic, please point it out. Do keep in mind that losing the fat fast is a top priority, and saying "should have thought of that before and lost the fat more gradually" doesn't help. Assume you would lose A LOT in your life if you didn't lose at least a solid 15-20 kg in the next two months (while preserving your hard-earned muscle and strength). What would you do differently?
I really don't believe that cutting with and without steroids won't make a difference. I've read, everywhere, that it will assist, and if anything it will help keeping (or slightly increasing) the same amount of strength while cutting. So at the very least it should help preserving muscle (steroid effect) while burning fat (diet and training effect). Then some compounds, namely Trenbolone and Clenbuterol, should have an active contribution to losing fat too. Trenbolone because of its "energetic" effects, plus the fact it helps converting a lot of what you eat into muscle rather than fat, and clenbuterol, well, it's a beta agonist. Too many people say "you can eat basically whatever you want on Tren and the fat will still come off", so either they are all wrong, or Tren does that job as well as they claim.
105 kg (230 lb), 1.65 cm (5 ft 5"), late 20s, 5 years training. Ballpark figure of 25% bodyfat. Can 1RM about 3 and half plates bench, 5 plates squat, 5 and half deadlift (good form, "powerlifting" ROM, and with a bum leg).
"Somewhat decent food plan" is about 2,000 calories a day (whole foods, no junk really), currently, and as I said that figure was enough to steadily lose a bit of weight without the assistance from the drugs. The macros should be on point, micronutrients should just about all be there. If that's not good enough, then I'll gladly take inputs.
End of the day, it's calories in vs calories out. If he can workout every day rather than every other day while on gear, and keep the same calories intake as the "natural" diet, surely that should be enough to burn fat, no? Or do you think 2,000 calories (if even that) is too much, still?
And +Tren or +Clen should give the extra boost. Doesn't mean "now I take Tren so I can treat myself to some icecream for a midnight snack", it means "I keep the rest the same, I add Tren, I should burn fat faster".
Adding cardio is not out of the question, just depends on how much extra energy the steroids will give.
If (where) you see a flaw in the logic, please point it out. Do keep in mind that losing the fat fast is a top priority, and saying "should have thought of that before and lost the fat more gradually" doesn't help. Assume you would lose A LOT in your life if you didn't lose at least a solid 15-20 kg in the next two months (while preserving your hard-earned muscle and strength). What would you do differently?
I hear ya. There was a study here: Endocrine Press | Endocrine Society but it got moved apparently. It essentially showed Free T differences in Tne vs Te. Granted that's not Tc vs Te, but that study did allow for an extrapolation that solubility in oil dictated the amount of estrogen conversion and/or effect the T had on fat cells.
Tne and Tp are not highly fat soluble which is why they are so hard to get solvated into oil. Tcyp is marginally better AND the body doesn't treat the ester on the Tc the same because of the ring in the ester. Because of the strange ring the Tc acts more like Tp. Te is HIGHLY oil soluble to 500mg/ml and if it's oil soluble it's also FAT soluble.
But justification for my statement isn't necessary really. I'm simply adding real world anecdotals to Tbagger's statement as a means to lessen the amount of hard knocks the OP might incur from different ester choices. That and I think WAY TOO much. But when you consider the study/extrapolation/real world feedback and experience, you have to summate that there is some kind of correlation to the ester structure or solubility which then affects people differently.
For some, it doesn't matter because the choice of ester is limited. But if beginning a route of experimentation, then why not start down a path with some wisdom, and venture outside of that when desired.
Test_Subject
Member
You do not even remotely need steroids to cut at 25% bodyfat. You need to fix your diet is what you need to do. Relying on steroids to fix obesity is a short term bandaid approach.
Ultimately, there's a reason why you're 25% bodyfat. A lack of steroids isn't the reason.
testiFy
Member
Muhh genetics.
I see so many guys who have terrible diet and training getting on gear only to fuck themselves hormonally and basically resort to crying about why they aren’t getting results or feel like absolute crap.
MartinHaze
New Member
Completely useless answer, as we had already established this should have been prevented rather than fixed. Focusing on one thing and ignoring the rest. Saying "bad idea" without providing a better alternative. No shit you don't need steroids to cut with that much fat, but if you had bothered to read maybe you would have understood that the steroids were meant to speed it up/make it more efficient, that it IS a short-term need, that the long-term plan to fix the diet is already being done.
Guess you never heard of anyone making a radical change when going on steroids, body transformation blah blah blah. But I guess the font of the posts here is too small to read from the high pedestal where you're sitting. Better to just discourage other people, throwing "bad idea" everywhere, and then hiding away when asked what you'd rather do in their situation. Never cease to disappoint.
MartinHaze
New Member
Low 20% percentile Testosterone, above the limit for Estrogens. Let's see how you do under those conditions.
"Terrible diet and training", again, just asinine assumptions.
testiFy
Member
We’re not talking about being natural so “low 20% testosterone” doesn’t make any sense here since their levels would be elevated anyway.
Steroids are a tool and many guys I know use it as their main driving force.
Test_Subject
Member
Someone is triggered because the answer they got wasn't what they wanted to hear....
I did provide a better alternative: unfuck your diet. Between that and increasing your cardio you'll lose weight. Problem solved.
Apparently the font is also too small for you to read from the tunnel inside your head.
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Right back at you big guy.
You came here with a ser answer in your head.
These guys here are gear vets, some of whom actually COMPETE and know these compounds.
They all say it's a bad idea.
I've been using gear for 13 years, I'm saying it's a bad idea.
You've made your decision, why are you here?
Long story short, your friends stats tell me one thing above everything else.
No dedication, sloppiness.
You wont take care of your liver, you are going to fuck off blood work, you may miss injections, sending your levels into disarray....
Your buddy is going to fuck his shit up... based on his stats, probably permanently.
Want a real piece if advice?
Run some SARMs, they will help with maintaining strength for the cut. (Run Ostarine, Cardarine... I like to use them while off cycle). are they gear?...no
But they help me maintain muscle mass when I'm cutting my fat gains from my blasts.
You want to go hardcore? Run Frag.
Running Tren, Clen, test and whatever he decides to throw in is going to fuck his shit.
Yeah, let's take an obese guy and run a compound that fucks your lungs....then let's use a stimulant fat burner that is SUPER hard on the heart (His heart is out of shape and not ready for this shit... judging for the 25% bf, clean eating and cardio is priority zero for him.
But hey, I'm just a fucking guy on the internet, you'll do what you want anyways.
Just dont be that douche that goes on YouTube or an interview that says "Steroids ruined my life".. after this is all said and done.
6FootFatty
Member
My friend who was around 5-11 - 6’, ~198 lbs and about 18% BF did his test e only cycle recently. It was his first injectable cycle. He’s at 215 at the end of PCT. Believe it or not, he’s leaned out on a bulk (500-700 over maint on cycle) while adding a crazy amount of muscle... I’m a firm believer of adding muscle while cycling. More muscle, higher metabolism.
Currently on my first cycle myself.
Currently on my first cycle myself.
It’s hard to hear @MartinHaze but these guys ARE giving you the best advice.
People above 15% body fat shouldn’t use steroids. They told you WHY. It’s too much stress on your body.
I’ll also add that testosterone will convert to estrogen quicker and at higher levels if you are fat. You’ll have a harder time controlling the estrogen. Not fun.
If you have low testosterone go see an endocrinologist.
Dial your diet in and READ. You’ll find all the answers you’re looking for on MESO and in books. Become an expert. Then when you’re at 15% bf you’ll get so much more out of a cycle.
It’s a misconception that you lose muscle while dieting. The body will burn the fat before eating into muscle. People think they loss muscle because without the fluff you look smaller. You never lose muscle until you run out of fat to burn. Very very very few people in 1st World countries will ever have to worry about this.
People above 15% body fat shouldn’t use steroids. They told you WHY. It’s too much stress on your body.
I’ll also add that testosterone will convert to estrogen quicker and at higher levels if you are fat. You’ll have a harder time controlling the estrogen. Not fun.
If you have low testosterone go see an endocrinologist.
Dial your diet in and READ. You’ll find all the answers you’re looking for on MESO and in books. Become an expert. Then when you’re at 15% bf you’ll get so much more out of a cycle.
It’s a misconception that you lose muscle while dieting. The body will burn the fat before eating into muscle. People think they loss muscle because without the fluff you look smaller. You never lose muscle until you run out of fat to burn. Very very very few people in 1st World countries will ever have to worry about this.
LeoTC
Member
Here's what I did, not what I'd do.
I'd cut my available food choices down to almost nothing. Chicken breast and quality Tuna. I'd make enough Chicken on Sunday night to have three 4oz servings daily. I'd eat each serving of Chicken with a cup of Broccoli.
I'd get in two more meals consisting of a pack of Tuna and another cup of Broccoli.
I'd drink a gallon of water a day and supplement sodium intake with salt tabs - 4mgs a day.
Diet is covered.
I'd get my ass to the gym every other day and hit the big five - BP, BOR, OHP, DL, SQT and work a basic 5/5 scheme.
On my off days I'd work light isolation and accessory movements and get in an hour of cardio.
I'd also go for a two hour walk.
Daily.
That's a quick ticket to dropping 100lbs in less than six months.
So there's your alternative to taking the short cut.
Still not the answer you want to hear, so I'm sure it's just as useless to you. But it doesn't make it any less true or correct.
I'd also be mindful of the fact that you're here asking US for advice. Drop the fucking attitude and listen.
You'll get a hell of a lot more out of your time here.
LeoTC
Member
What got me?
Adding cardio isn't out of the question depending on how much energy tge gear adds.
That's such a massive fucking red flag.
Ive done multiple sessions a day, every fucking day, for years. Cardio in the gym and still got walks in outside the gym.
The cardio and walks, by the by, are going to do more for you than the weights in terms of fat loss. A hell of a lot more.
The fact that an excuse not to get the work in while chemically assisted has already been laid down illustrates the root cause of the extra weight to begin with.
Kid is about to rock more gear than a tech diver, including shit that'll fuck with heart.
To save a little fucking effort / time.
Btcowboy
Elite
Well said, other than my diet was a little different, that is exactly how I lost 135lbs.
Test_Subject
Member
Yep. When your goal is weight loss and cardio doesn't even factor in to your game plan, you know that your priorities are fucked.
The fact that this dude is even considering running clen at 25% body fat is insane. Let's take a drug that speeds up your heart rate and raises your blood pressure as an obese person. Fantastic idea -- how could that ever go wrong. Good luck with his impending cardiac emergency. Couple that with some good old tren to destroy his cardiovascular abilities and you have a perfect storm of fuckery.
A fuckery typhoon if you really think about it.
Steak man
New Member
New to the game and looking to build lean mass. Have been lifting for years and now want a game changer. Don’t know what is a good source or stack. Any help would be appreciated
