fist PCT after first cycle

[OtisDriftwood]

Hey there,
I've finished my first cycle of deca and test-e 2 weeks ago (I did my last injection of test-e on Dec 25th)...so I should do a PCT after 3 weeks my last pin, right???
My coach told me to do as pct Arimidex, Clomid and hCG...it claimed that nolvadex is not needed...But I have a doubt: arimidex is an anti-aromatase (and I took it during last weeks of my cycle due to a beginning of gyno and Im still using it); clomid is an anti-estrogen drug that is needed to reduce E2 levels and so to block the negative feedback that estrogens cause on the hipofisis-testicles axis...so the final effect of clomid is to let hipofisis restart releasing LH and FSH...now, here we are....the doubt I have is about the real benefit of using hCG during a PCT...I mean, ok...they stimulates testicles to release testo, but they also block the hypofisis-testicles axis, due to high endogenic testo production...and there is the risk that all that new testo released could convert itself into estrogens...so what the fuck should I take hCG during PCT for??? to even more fuck up my hypothalamus-hypofisis-gonadal axis???
according to bloodwork I did 2 weeks ago, my testo levels are very high (3245 ng/dL), LH and FSH are 0.0 mIU/mL (obviously) and E2 is 113 pg/mL (very high,that's why I started to take arimidex)...
so, said this, I think I need, during my PCT, first of all something that lowers my estrogen levels and their effects on the tissues (that's why I agree to take arimidex and clomid), and I really need something that could starts up again my hypofisis (that's why I would take clomid too)...
and I would save lot of money too, without buying hCG...even though it's not that the problem...if something is necessary I must buy it, but if it's not needed and its also controindicated, why wasting money???
what do you suggest for my PCT??
thx y'all
PS: or should I take triptoreline to stimulate hypofisis???

 

[Burrr]

Fire your coach, right after slapping him upside his head.

 

[Burrr]

When was your last pin of deca and how much, that takes much longer than the test e to clear your system.
DEca is known for a hard shut down of the hpta and may lead to a difficult PCT.
Shoulda started off with a test only cycle to see how you recover from it.

Most folks go with aromasin as their AI during a PCT, if one is needed.
Don't use the HCG during PCT, only before it.

 

[OtisDriftwood]

When was your last pin of deca and how much, that takes much longer than the test e to clear your system.
DEca is known for a hard shut down of the hpta and may lead to a difficult PCT.
Shoulda started off with a test only cycle to see how you recover from it.

Most folks go with aromasin as their AI during a PCT, if one is needed.
Don't use the HCG during PCT, only before it.

my last deca dose was 3 weeks ago...and my last test pin was on dec 25th...what do you suggest bro??? you are right suggesting to not use hcg during pct, but given that I didn't use them during cycle, so my testicles are not stimulated to produce testo, it s possible to get a cathabolic status very soon, without hcg, once external test drops totally!

 

[OtisDriftwood]

In your opinion, am I in the shit?? what should I do to have more chances to reactive my axis?? my coach told me that he didin't let me take hcg during because I took low doseage of deca (200mg x week) and test e (first 6 weeks at 250mg and last 6 weeks at 500mg)...so I didn't need them during, and he reassured me saying my axis will restart due to Im Young (25yo)...he told me he uses this approach with every amateur athletes he coaches.

 

[Burrr]

Do you have HCG on hand?
I don't think your fucked, you will probably be fine.
Do you pharma grade products for PCT?

 

[OtisDriftwood]

yep bro, I have them, and I have ari and clomid too...and yep, they are all pharmaceutical products.

 

[OtisDriftwood]

"If you did not use HCG during your cycle, here is a variation of Dr. Scally's PCT protocol for AAS users (his experience and expertise speaks for itself)
HCG 2000iu E3D for 14 days before pct start date
PCT start
1-35 clomiphene 50mg morning and night
1-45 tamoxifen 20mg morning and night
1-45 low dose of exemestane 12.5mg E3D (Optional)"
should I follow this protocol???
I took that on this forum...

 

[OtisDriftwood]

Ive also noticed that i have a little nut under my right nipple, even though im using adex at 1mg xday! What should I do?? Change product, ie letro??? Or increase adex dosage to 2 mg xday??

 

[Burrr]

I don't think you want to take anymore than that 1mg a day. that is enough to crash most people.
The protocol you posted is a good one. Break the exemestane dosage into daily dosages of 4mg.

you might want to run bloods again and see where your estro is now.
The nolva/clomid should help with the start of gyno, but next time know that you use an AI starting at week 2, and check e2 with bloods.

 

[Ozzy619]

Hey there,
I've finished my first cycle of deca and test-e 2 weeks ago (I did my last injection of test-e on Dec 25th)...so I should do a PCT after 3 weeks my last pin, right???
My coach told me to do as pct Arimidex, Clomid and hCG...it claimed that nolvadex is not needed...But I have a doubt: arimidex is an anti-aromatase (and I took it during last weeks of my cycle due to a beginning of gyno and Im still using it); clomid is an anti-estrogen drug that is needed to reduce E2 levels and so to block the negative feedback that estrogens cause on the hipofisis-testicles axis...so the final effect of clomid is to let hipofisis restart releasing LH and FSH...now, here we are....the doubt I have is about the real benefit of using hCG during a PCT...I mean, ok...they stimulates testicles to release testo, but they also block the hypofisis-testicles axis, due to high endogenic testo production...and there is the risk that all that new testo released could convert itself into estrogens...so what the fuck should I take hCG during PCT for??? to even more fuck up my hypothalamus-hypofisis-gonadal axis???
according to bloodwork I did 2 weeks ago, my testo levels are very high (3245 ng/dL), LH and FSH are 0.0 mIU/mL (obviously) and E2 is 113 pg/mL (very high,that's why I started to take arimidex)...
so, said this, I think I need, during my PCT, first of all something that lowers my estrogen levels and their effects on the tissues (that's why I agree to take arimidex and clomid), and I really need something that could starts up again my hypofisis (that's why I would take clomid too)...
and I would save lot of money too, without buying hCG...even though it's not that the problem...if something is necessary I must buy it, but if it's not needed and its also controindicated, why wasting money???
what do you suggest for my PCT??
thx y'all
PS: or should I take triptoreline to stimulate hypofisis???

Your coach has no idea what hes doing. Sounds like youre on the right track with scallys protocol. Next time run hcg during cycle and all the way up to pct. You want to prevent your nuts shrinking, not try and get them back to normal. Adex should be used your entire cycle too, depending on your ester, once again prevent gyno before it happens. Most people start pct 2 weeks after last pin with a long ester. Pct should be nolva with clomid. Next cycle come here and we can hook you up with a proper protocol.

 

[OtisDriftwood]

If I start hcg right now for 2 weeks I cant do pct at the same time, right?? I will start pct after 2 weeks of hcg...so after 3-4weeks from my last test pin...is it too much time???
another thing...given the fact using 1mg x day of adex is not enough to block my gyno beginning, if I start hcg I whould run the risk to have more testo converted into estro...so my gyno could be worse than now...so what should I do to reduce it?? change adex with letro, up the dosage, or what else??? I feel a nut under/next to my right nipple and it quite hurts while sleeping, because it touches with clothes and bed.
Please guys, give me a complete protocol to follow cause Im very lost and afraid.
thx y'all

 

[OtisDriftwood]

guys help me please...
if I do 14 days og hcg before starting my pct, should I take arimidex too?? because my right gland has a little nut under the nipple and I think it's going to grow again during 14 days of hcg, due to the aromatization of the new testo released by testicles...
Im taking adex since my 11th week of cycle, and also now that Im off...but my nipple gland seems work...Should I continue it during hcg too???
given the fact I used adex just after feeling first symptoms and not before to prevent it, is it possible to regress using adex now and nolva/clomid during pct??? or will gyno remain the same even though the antiestro and anti aromatase treatment???
Furthermore, I feel my testicles smaller than before (maybe I'm quite psychologically influenced, right now) but they seem smaller touching 'em...if it's true, will they return to their standard size after 14 days of hcg treatment??? or am I fucked?

 

[doubleaa]

Burr is Certainly right im doing my pct right know as well but i didnt have deca just test. I started 14 days after last pin . Clomid 50mg/ nolva 40/40/20/20. Not useing an ai becuse i have adex( and 1mg is a fucking lot by the way).adex and nolva are a no no together. So go with aromisin for if you wany an ai. As well.

 

[OtisDriftwood]

Burr is Certainly right im doing my pct right know as well but i didnt have deca just test. I started 14 days after last pin . Clomid 50mg/ nolva 40/40/20/20. Not useing an ai becuse i have adex( and 1mg is a fucking lot by the way).adex and nolva are a no no together. So go with aromisin for if you wany an ai. As well.

adex is an AI...and Im taking 1mg xday but I have still symptoms on my right gland...so, the dosage depends on the situation and on the individual inclination to aromatization...
futhermore, I didin't say I want to take adex and nolva at the same time, just adex now and during hcg cycle and then nolva and clomid during pct...as guys said above! I want to stop arimidex once taking nolva and clomid on pct...

 

[doubleaa]

adex is an AI...and Im taking 1mg xday but I have still symptoms on my right gland...so, the dosage depends on the situation and on the individual inclination to aromatization...
futhermore, I didin't say I want to take adex and nolva at the same time, just adex now and during hcg cycle and then nolva and clomid during pct...as guys said above! I want to stop arimidex once taking nolva and clomid on pct...

Your right it does all depend on many stipulations. Yes i know adex is an ai. Sounds like your on thr right track just giving my personal experience

 

[doubleaa]

Hope you get those symptoms cleared up. I never took any at all tell the end off my cycle. It was like week 7. Some people aromatize more than others

 

[OtisDriftwood]

Hope you get those symptoms cleared up. I never took any at all tell the end off my cycle. It was like week 7. Some people aromatize more than others

the symptoms on my right gland are still there...it seems like adex didn't work great...and Im wondering if during 14 days of hcg the situation of my gland could get worse than now...that's why I asked what I could do to prevent a worsening of the gyno...hcg stimulate nuts to release endo testo, so that testo could convert into estro and the gland grows more.

 

[doubleaa]

the symptoms on my right gland are still there...it seems like adex didn't work great...and Im wondering if during 14 days of hcg the situation of my gland could get worse than now...that's why I asked what I could do to prevent a worsening of the gyno...hcg stimulate nuts to release endo testo, so that testo could convert into estro and the gland grows more.

Thats a good possiblity that the hcg converted over. From what i have is that if adex dont work to go to aromisen. Like the others have said. If rhat dosbt then letro is the only other option. But hopefully the nolva and aroma do the trick. Best of luck to ya man

 

[Northern Nutrition]

Fire your coach, right after slapping him upside his head.

...and stay away from AAS until you've properly educated yourself. Lesson learned i hope. But youre on the right track...keep digging in.