MESO-Rx
Anabolic Steroids
Free Androgen Index
- Thread starter zadok
- Start date
zadok said:
Give the name of laboratory that you have used.
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http://labcorp.com/dos/index.html
Free Androgen Index (FAI), Serum
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Next time use Quest Diagnostics,
ask for
Free, Bioavailable, and Total Testosterone,
http://www.questdiagnostics.com/hcp/topics/endo/testosterone.html?endo
as a output you will get
Testosterone, Free, Bio/Tot
Testosterone Total (included in T panel)
Testosterone Free(included in T panel)
Testosterone Bioavailable(included in T panel)
SHBG(included in T panel)
just be careful, they have similar test (that you do not want)
Free and Total Testosterone
HeadDoc
Psychologist
zadok said:
I don't have the answer. It would require going to the website for the lab you used and getting that information. On the other hand, I have found the following calculator useful.
http://www.issam.ch/freetesto.htm
https://thinksteroids.com/community/posts/533890HeadDoc said:
Use this chart (freeT)
Invalid Link Removed
input your SHBG,
run line thru 160-250
on left read TotalT that you need,
Chart assumes Albumin=4.3
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The calculator...
I was using it, but no more.
Do not waste money if cant use Quest.
The gold standard at the moment is BioAvailableTestosterone from Quest Diagnostics.
In one of the posts (that I cannot find now) I used mine and somebody elses BioT results as done by Quest and compared them with results from calculator.
Results from calculator are not even related.
There is a problem with accuracy of BioT assays or/and calculation algorytms.
I found two papers, 2006 and 2007.
2006 paper says the error is (1.5–2.2) that is huge
2007 paper says it is even larger 2.28 vs 3.48
to make it worst it vary with the age.
I invite help on this thread:
age-associated Bio-T
https://anabolicminds.com/forum/male-anti-aging/69037-age-associated-bio.html#post867990
zadok said:
It depends. Yes, it is a calculated value. If you got TT and SHBG done, then calculating FAI should have been a simple matter of using the already available TT and SHBG values.
But if FAI was the only thing ordered, then they would have had to do TT and SHBG in order to calculate FAI - effectively two tests plus a calculation. That would have cost a few bucks.
cpeil2 said:
SHBG and TT were ordered, along with E2, prolactin, DHT, LH, FSH, and i paid for all of those as well. Also all these were in the right range.
The reason why I am asking this question about FAI is that I have used a couple of different labs, on uses FAI and the other measures Free T. The FAI alway comes back around 1 (good) but when I have the free test measured it is around 50 pmol/L (45-149). I know free test is not necessarily an accurate measurement, but this has happened around 4 times.
I feel like crap. Nobody can quite explain to me why TT and E2 are at normal levels but FT is so low...
Zadok
HeadDoc
Psychologist
albumin?
HeadDoc said:
Good thought, however that is also well within range. I have seen about 6 different Endo's in Dubai (none who appear to have much experience with sex hormones). Not one of them has any idea what is wrong me. Especially when they see the set of results with the FAI, everything is perfect.
I have been told that it it could be phsycological, but there are too many physical symptoms for me to believe that. My penis is small and shrunken, I find it hard to get erection, even with viagra. I am bloated all the time, I have lost weight, I am tired and irritable all the time and I have absolutely no drive or libido.
HeadDoc
Psychologist
thyroid? adrenals? lifestyle consistent with good health?
zadok, i started putting everything down to testosterone (total/free), E2 and DHT for my problems but the true fact was that my adrenals (which produce the important cortisol hormone) and thyroid were out of whack causing almost all my problems (even though my T did drop a fair bit from it's original value).
Our symptoms seem very simmilar, the shrunken penis, hard to get erections, no libido, etc. The problem here is thyroid/adrenals. I speak to a friend Chris (cjones) who posted on AM forum's a few months back and literally developed similar symptoms to us but with NO change in testosterone, E2, etc. His total T and free t were both top of the range and E2 mid range. However his TSH was identical to mine at 2.5 and thus he is in the "hypothyroid" range. Hypothyroidism can give the shrinkage, ED, low libido, etc and can also lower T (among other hormones).
HeadDoc is right, get your adrenals and thyroid checked in full. I went to see Dr Marianco for proper diagnoisis and it seem's i have hypothyroidism (even though i am very skinny) and adrenal fatigue.
Our symptoms seem very simmilar, the shrunken penis, hard to get erections, no libido, etc. The problem here is thyroid/adrenals. I speak to a friend Chris (cjones) who posted on AM forum's a few months back and literally developed similar symptoms to us but with NO change in testosterone, E2, etc. His total T and free t were both top of the range and E2 mid range. However his TSH was identical to mine at 2.5 and thus he is in the "hypothyroid" range. Hypothyroidism can give the shrinkage, ED, low libido, etc and can also lower T (among other hormones).
HeadDoc is right, get your adrenals and thyroid checked in full. I went to see Dr Marianco for proper diagnoisis and it seem's i have hypothyroidism (even though i am very skinny) and adrenal fatigue.
Megazoid said:
Here are my results:
SHBG: 37 (13-71)
Free T: 57.7 (49.7-149)
Total T: 25.6 (9-27)
LH: 5.6 (0.8-6.2)
FSH: 10.4 (1.5-12.4)
Cortisol: 605 (221-690)
Prolactin: 340 (83-600)
Albumin: 46 (35-50)
T4: 69 (63-151)
T3: 2.4 (1.3-3.1)
TSH 2.21 (0.27-4.2)
ACTH 3.5 (2.2-10.7)
DHT: 2.58 (1.13-4.13)
How do you test for adrenal fatigue?
Zadok
I am sure JanSz will give a better rundown of your labs but your T4 seem's low and TSH high, in fact your lab's look similar to mine. I am willing to bet thyroid is your problem, you should consult with a Dr like Marianco to get proper treatment, this kind of thing is hard to treat right.
MacDonnell
New Member
Megazoid said:
This is true. Anything above 2.0 (for TSH) is suspect for hypothyroidism. Hey Mega! How was your trip back? Mine was a bitch. Check your PM mailbox.
You really have to get longer blood test.zadok said:
Even with good blood test is hard enough, without it is hopeless.
Your testosterone is indeed low.
Cortisol looks just about right.
ACTH 3.5 (2.2-10.7)
See what this people have to say.
http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/adrenal-info/how-to-treat
http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/recommended-labwork/
http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/community/viewtopic.php?t=994&sid=cbd3defde75661c545f4d25f3df78e8e
Bottom line, try Cortef, no more than 20mg/day see if it makes difference.
Isocort, which is over the counter does not work (often enough).
Not enough thyroid data. Get FreeT3 to the top range Using Armour, then get FreeT4 llittle higher (Synthroid) (only if real low), then if that is not enough start digging deeper.
You should not start with supplementation of testosterone.
Check everything else first.
To do that get good test.
Below is a list, it pays on a long run to do that test. It is one time event, latter you will do much shorter tests. With out tests you need somebody to be clairvoyant and help you.
Good doctor looking at you could possibly figure out something, he still need tests.
Somebody who do not see you have no chance without tests.
Card readers do that, but I am not sure about success ratio.
0 iodine
1 CBC w/ diff
2 Calcium
3 Carbon dioxide
4 Chloride
5 Copper, serum
6 Ferritin
7 Magnesium
8 Potasium
9 Selenium
10 Sodium
11 Zinc
12 Alkaline phosphase
13 ALT
14 AST
15 BUN/creatinine ratio
16 Creatinine
17 Globulin, calculated
18 Protein Total
19 Urea nitrogen
20 Bilirubin, Total
21 Bilirubin, Direct
22 EGFR non afr american
23 RPR W/Titer & Conf RFX RPR screen
24 C-reactive protein CRP
25 Fibrinogen
26 Hematocrit
27 Hemoglobin A1C
28 Homocysteine, cardio
29 Lipoprotein (A) Lp(A)
30 Folate, Serum
31 Folate, Serum
32 Cholesterol, Total
33 HDL cholesterol
34 cholesterol/HDL ratio
35 LDL chol, calculated
36 Triglycirides
37 VLDL
38 Vitamin A
39 Vitamin B12, serum
40 Vitamin D, panel
43 T3 Free
44 T3 uptake
45 T3,Total
46 T4,Free
47 T4,Total
48 TSH
49 Glucose, fasting
50 Insuline, serum
51 PSA, Total
52 PSA, %, free
53 IGF Binding protein-3
54 IGF-1
55 Aldosterone
56 Cortisol AM/PM
57 DHEA sulfate
58 Prolactin
59 FSH
60 LH
61 Progesterone
62 Pregnenolone
63 Estradiol, Bioavailable
64 Estradiol, Free
65 Estradiol, Fractionated, serum
66 Estradiol, Ultra-sensitive (is part of fractionated)
67 Estrone,serum (is part of fractionated)
68 Estrogens, Total, Serum
69 Testosterone, Free, Bio/Total (LC/MS/MS)
70 Testosterone Total (included in T panel)
71 Testosterone Free(included in T panel)
72 Testosterone Bioavailable(included in T panel)
73 SHBG(included in T panel)
74 Albumin, serum(included in T panel)
75 Dihydrotestosterone DHT
=========================================================================
SHBG: 37 (13-71)
Free T: 57.7 (49.7-149)
Total T: 25.6 (9-27)
LH: 5.6 (0.8-6.2)
FSH: 10.4 (1.5-12.4)
Your testis are getting enough signal and they are producing enough testosterone.
Your freeT is low, (who knows if really true, freeT test is not reliable).
Your SHBG is on higer side, not really very high, it binds testosterone so not enough free is available.
You may try to lower SHBG.
To do that use:
Compounded Chrysin cream from womansinternational.com
good and inexpensive
also this two types of pills (they ship everywhere:
Super MiraForte with Maximum Strength Chrysin
http://www.lef.org/newshop/items/item00615.html
Advanced Natural Prostate Formula with 5-Loxin®
http://www.lef.org/newshop/items/item00975.html
Eventually you will need to control estrogens, I use DualAction, 6 pills (they recomend one/160# body weight, not enough for me)
Dual-Action Cruciferous Vegetable Extract With Resveratrol & Cat's Claw
http://www.lef.org/newshop/items/item00969.html
TMG
http://www.lef.org/newshop/items/item00359.html
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If you really want to get little extra T into your body, you have to be real careful because you have good working testis.
Using HCG and often enough is very important in your case, at least every other day.
Otherwise you will loose your own T and end up lower than you have started.
So you could have
Depo-Testosterone or Enanthate, strenght 200mg/mL
100mg/week and HCG
Every other day, E2D
=100/7*2=28.57mg/shot
=100/7*2/200=0.143=14 units on insuline syringe
Tshot=14 units on insuline syringe
HCGshot=250IU
I do my T & HCG shots both on same day.
Then you can have day free of shots in between.
For both shots you can use the smallest syringe there is, subQ shots around navel.
I rub a lot after T shot to spread the oil, not sure if I really need to do that, just playng safe.
http://hocks.com/Merchant2/merchant...ct_Code=4724290&Product_Count=&Category_Code=
BD Ultrafine II U-100 Insulin Syringe 31 Gauge 3/10cc 5/16inch Short Needle--1/2 Unit Markings 100/b Price: $25.95
There is same size syringe that should also work.
http://hocks.com/Merchant2/merchant...duct_Code=M3136&Product_Count=&Category_Code=
Easy Touch U-100 Insulin Syringe 31 Gauge 3/10cc 5/16 inch Short Needle 100/Box Sale Price: $13.99
Last edited:
JanSz said:
JanSz
Thanks heaps for the reply. I have tried supplementing with Test about a year ago, it only drove my Free T levels lower and made me feel terrible. Also, why do you mention taking Cortef? If my cortisol levels are normal, why would I need this, or is there something im missing?
Thanks,
Zadok
When supplementing with T you have to do it the smart way, you do not want to suppress you own production.zadok said:
If you have no choice, then you need larger T dose to cover all what your body needs,
I am not sure about your ACTH results, that is why I mentioned about Cortef.
If you are lazy about blood testing, trying little Cortef is a way of testing. If it makes a difference, you know you have identified a problem that needs attention.
Better check at
http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com
they deal with this on daily basis.
