BR1217
New Member
So i recently had bloodwork done and my Free Test numbers came back very high. I am on 600mg per week of Test. Is this free test number possible or is this a test error? Any ideas anyone?
MESO-Rx
Anabolic Steroids
Free Testosterone 1871
- Thread starter BR1217
- Start date
So i recently had bloodwork done and my Free Test numbers came back very high. I am on 600mg per week of Test. Is this free test number possible or is this a test error? Any ideas anyone?
BR1217
New Member
From what I have read 2% seems to be the norm for free test, 1871 puts my free test number at 27.3%. Has anyone else seen a free test percentage this high?
BIGMESC
New Member
Those are some great numbers.
Your free test is as higher then some guys on shitty gear.
How are you feeling?
Your free test is as higher then some guys on shitty gear.
How are you feeling?
BR1217
New Member
I feel great! I have bumped my Aromasin to 12.5 ED, was taking 12.5mg M/W/F. I have noticed some bloat and fat storage around the mid section but nothing extreme. Libido is great and mood is good. Having some insomnia but that is pretty common for me. I don't really know what to think about a free test number that high. Any sides I should be looking for?
BR1217
New Member
I'm crediting the pain killers for the elevated ALT number. I am having surgery March 13 to repair a torn labrum and rotator cuff so I have been swallowing a lot of pain killers lately, going to back off given the ALT number.
How long after you pinned were these values obtained.
No sorry that value is NOT consistent with steady state levels. What does that mean exactly?
When FT values are mentioned as 1-2% of TT they are being obtained when in equilibrium with your volume of distribution and since albumin can NOT be saturated this value, exceeding 25%, is not even close.
(Of course we really don't know because such high TT levels would never be approved as a research study but based on well designed computer models a FT level exceeding even 4% would be very rare indeed, bc of ALBUMINS vast storage capacity)
Obtain another level BEFORE your next injection and note what a remarkable difference there will be, unless the underlying problem is lab error which I doubt.
No sorry that value is NOT consistent with steady state levels. What does that mean exactly?
When FT values are mentioned as 1-2% of TT they are being obtained when in equilibrium with your volume of distribution and since albumin can NOT be saturated this value, exceeding 25%, is not even close.
(Of course we really don't know because such high TT levels would never be approved as a research study but based on well designed computer models a FT level exceeding even 4% would be very rare indeed, bc of ALBUMINS vast storage capacity)
Obtain another level BEFORE your next injection and note what a remarkable difference there will be, unless the underlying problem is lab error which I doubt.
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BR1217
New Member
I pinned at 0700 on Jan 12 and blood work was drawn at 0900 on Jan 13.
I have been injecting 300mg every Monday/Thursday.
That certainly explains it. FT levels can be all over the place when equilibrium has not been reached and for that reason I believe PEAK TT values are more reliable WHEN PINNING.
BR1217
New Member
Once again I appreciate the feedback. I have another round of blood work scheduled for next month before surgery. My TRT doc was not as impressed with these numbers as I was so he wants me to retest next month. I will not pin the day before and see how the FT and TT numbers differ.
Come again!
Bc a TT levels of 6K far exceeds TRT therapeutic benefit if anything a DOSAGE REDUCTION is warranted from a medical perspective.
Docs whom have many patients with those values have someone else in their office, like the DEA, scrutinizing their "TRT practice"!
Some things are best left unsaid but I like your suggestion, since those levels STRONGLY suggest your cycling TT as a PED! Got it!
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BR1217
New Member
I have been on TRT for 5 years. My dose is 400mg/week, has been for a couple years now. My doc usually only runs the >1500 test so I never know the real number. My last round of bloodwork was erroneously sent to a different lab, quest, and they actually tested for the actual number this time. As 6800 was well above therapeutic range my doc was not impressed with how high the number was. I have been straight with him regarding AAS usage the entire time I have been his patient. He knows I was taking more than the 400mg he is prescribing me. He is chalking this test up to test error and drawing blood again next month. He is a BB'r and has several BB's that come to him for TRT. No reduction has been prescribed yet.
The risk is his not yours, but there are several red flags the DEA looks for when evaluating doctors whom are prescribing AAS, and supraphysiologic TT level is just one of many.
Incidentally the fact your using 6K of TT weekly is entirely consistent with the "10 X rule" and should be expected based on existing medical literature.
Incidentally the fact your using 6K of TT weekly is entirely consistent with the "10 X rule" and should be expected based on existing medical literature.
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BR1217
New Member
How is he getting away with reporting >1500 for the last 2 years? Is that Kosher with the DEA?
LOL, patient records and or lab values are not "reported" to the DEA mate.
What usually happens is someone REPORTS HIM to the DEA, such as a "concerned mothers of America", "anti-TRT crusader movement, a local pharmacist whom is worried for the community, etc.
See bc these are CS the DEA then requests copies of RXs he has written in the past 2-3 years from local pharmacies.
With that "evidence" in hand the DEA marches over to a DOCS office (actually the state board would first intercede on behalf of the DEA, with the DOC being formally served with a "cause to investigate" certified letter) requesting he produce records PROVING the meds were appropriately prescribed AND follow up therapy was within the standard of care.
In situations like this THE DOC must prove he followed the community medical standard, your guilty unless you prove yourself to be innocent!
And if your records show several of your patients had TT levels FAR exceeding the norm, well that's gonna be a problem, I promise!
So in situations such as yours the physician must make reasonable efforts to LOWER that TT level to within the therapeutic norm.
Of course there are SEVERAL ways to accomplish that task, just use your imagination!
What usually happens is someone REPORTS HIM to the DEA, such as a "concerned mothers of America", "anti-TRT crusader movement, a local pharmacist whom is worried for the community, etc.
See bc these are CS the DEA then requests copies of RXs he has written in the past 2-3 years from local pharmacies.
With that "evidence" in hand the DEA marches over to a DOCS office (actually the state board would first intercede on behalf of the DEA, with the DOC being formally served with a "cause to investigate" certified letter) requesting he produce records PROVING the meds were appropriately prescribed AND follow up therapy was within the standard of care.
In situations like this THE DOC must prove he followed the community medical standard, your guilty unless you prove yourself to be innocent!
And if your records show several of your patients had TT levels FAR exceeding the norm, well that's gonna be a problem, I promise!
So in situations such as yours the physician must make reasonable efforts to LOWER that TT level to within the therapeutic norm.
Of course there are SEVERAL ways to accomplish that task, just use your imagination!
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"your guilty unless you prove yourself to be innocent!"
Really?? I thought it was the other way around.....goodness!
I'll be honest here most DOCS lose these cases bc they got very sloppy or believed they were above reproach, a good example is a PAIN Dr being charged with overprescribing narcotic analgesics!
Did the doctor overprescribe opiates it's unlikely really but what he didn't do is document their indications, and CONTINUED need to prescribe those meds.
TRT is the same in SOME ways as is prescribing AAS.
Chances are if your DOC becomes know as the place to acquire "TRT" for all comers, eventually HIS records will become his bane or downfall.
There is only a few ways to prescribe AAS appropriately, where one's records support reasonable care but there are MULTIPLE ways to screw yourself, IMO and that's just one reason MANY physicians don't mess with TRT!
Did the doctor overprescribe opiates it's unlikely really but what he didn't do is document their indications, and CONTINUED need to prescribe those meds.
TRT is the same in SOME ways as is prescribing AAS.
Chances are if your DOC becomes know as the place to acquire "TRT" for all comers, eventually HIS records will become his bane or downfall.
There is only a few ways to prescribe AAS appropriately, where one's records support reasonable care but there are MULTIPLE ways to screw yourself, IMO and that's just one reason MANY physicians don't mess with TRT!
So whatever you do, do NOT advertise to anyone but your most trusted mates who your DOC is.
Well but you can tell me of course!
Just messing w ya fella, just keep it quite.
Well but you can tell me of course!
Just messing w ya fella, just keep it quite.
Well in that regard, for instance I've seen DOCS claim; they lost the charts, the patient died, the Pharmacy RXs the DEA has are not his/hers, the prescription signature is not mine, the patient is now incarcerated, (that's never good if your the DOC, LOL)
(Investigators deplore physicians whom are lying, bc then they rightfully believe you can't be trusted also)
Those type of excuses just don't work bc your REQUIRED by law to maintain patient records for YEARS, the exact amount will vary by state but it's at least 2 and in some states like Oklahoma it's EIGHT YEARS!
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BR1217
New Member
My TRT doc quit writing take home scripts for testosterone about 2 years ago. All of his patients have to come in monthly to receive their testosterone. The nurses give me 4 syringes pre loaded with test every month. He also does a mail order program for patients who live outside of the region, he still only mails them a months worth at a time. Does this practice avoid some scrutiny due to the fact that there are not any pharmacists looking at his scripts before filling?
Also, he makes all of his patients pay cash for their testosterone If their dose is above 200mg/week and does not run it through insurance. Is this another attempt to avoid scrutiny?
Also, he makes all of his patients pay cash for their testosterone If their dose is above 200mg/week and does not run it through insurance. Is this another attempt to avoid scrutiny?
I suspect those steps would help since he could mention he has control over the drugs themselves.
