Gains?

[ilovethedark]

I started with 250mg TestEth/wk for few weeks, then went to 500mg for few weeks, now at 750mg for about 6 weeks. Im abuot to go off cycle, and when i go back on, doing 500mg Testeth and 400mg EQ a week, along with 50mg Dbol for 4 weeks. My question is this. My workour I do 3 sets of an exercise, 12-10-8 reps per set, and use multiple exercises per bodypart. I use weight that just allows me to finish the last set of 8 reps. I havent been able to increase the weight amount. I have noticed size gains though. Shouldnt I be lifting almost thru the roof now? Its been about 16 weeks on gear. Thanks.

 

[KTCKSports]

I am guessing your diet isn't up to par.

AAS + great workouts - diet = worthless cycle.

I started with 250mg TestEth/wk for few weeks, then went to 500mg for few weeks, now at 750mg for about 6 weeks. Im abuot to go off cycle, and when i go back on, doing 500mg Testeth and 400mg EQ a week, along with 50mg Dbol for 4 weeks. My question is this. My workour I do 3 sets of an exercise, 12-10-8 reps per set, and use multiple exercises per bodypart. I use weight that just allows me to finish the last set of 8 reps. I havent been able to increase the weight amount. I have noticed size gains though. Shouldnt I be lifting almost thru the roof now? Its been about 16 weeks on gear. Thanks.

 

[graybass]

workout forum

Dude three sets? I may be Old School, but some days we'd do 7-8 sets just of bench, before inclines on chest day. Your on juice? kick the fuck outta those muscles. Squat till you puke! Then Leg press till you puke.
On saturdays my bros. and I would sometimes do chest for 4-5 hrs. I know this is a little extreme, but every 4-5 weeks you gotta shock those bad boys.

Now I know there are alot of new very complex workouts. I've been training Bodybuilders and Fitness Models for over 15 yrs. I do this full time, but for me a size program looks like this
Mon Chest: 20-30 sets
Tues Biceps 12-16 sets
Weds Legs 20-30 sets
Thurs shoulders 12-16 sets, plus Triceps 12-16 sets
Friday Back 20-30 sets
Two days off. Now your main muscle groups better be sore as hell or your training like a Pussy. There is no over training, just under eating and under resting.
The Biggest, and Strongest men and Women, built world class bodies with this program thru out many decades

 

[Deacon]

maybe you just think you should be doing better because you are on gear?

I think you are not training enough by your example above and I also bet your diet is not real good.

 

[Neodavid]

An old muscle guy (huge) at our gym says the same thing... he thinks HST is a joke, but I'm trying it out. What's your take? (Don't want to start anything, just honestly curious about old school thoughts here)

Have you ever run across clients that don't respond to the large number of sets? I've never tried that many, but if HST doesn't give results, I'll try that next. Before I tried to follow HIT, but it didn't get me too far.

Is juice needed to make gains with that many sets? And finally, how long should you stay on a size program like that, do you change it up much through a year?

Dude three sets? I may be Old School, but some days we'd do 7-8 sets just of bench, before inclines on chest day. Your on juice? kick the fuck outta those muscles. Squat till you puke! Then Leg press till you puke.
On saturdays my bros. and I would sometimes do chest for 4-5 hrs. I know this is a little extreme, but every 4-5 weeks you gotta shock those bad boys.

Now I know there are alot of new very complex workouts. I've been training Bodybuilders and Fitness Models for over 15 yrs. I do this full time, but for me a size program looks like this
Mon Chest: 20-30 sets
Tues Biceps 12-16 sets
Weds Legs 20-30 sets
Thurs shoulders 12-16 sets, plus Triceps 12-16 sets
Friday Back 20-30 sets
Two days off. Now your main muscle groups better be sore as hell or your training like a Pussy. There is no over training, just under eating and under resting.
The Biggest, and Strongest men and Women, built world class bodies with this program thru out many decades

 

[Bob Smith]

An old muscle guy (huge) at our gym says the same thing... he thinks HST is a joke, but I'm trying it out. What's your take? (Don't want to start anything, just honestly curious about old school thoughts here)

My take is that most people are clueless and looking to the biggest guy in the gym for training advice is equally as retarded (in about 99% of the cases).

Before I tried to follow HIT, but it didn't get me too far.

You also said that you changed a bunch of things from the original program and made other mistakes. When the majority of people change HST (or really any program) they bungle it so badly and make such poor alterations that the final program is nothing close to the original.

From my experience, most people who claim that they gained nothing on 1, 2, 3 cycles of HST have changed it so much that they arent even doing HST. Every single person Ive helped with setting up an HST program has made great progress in a short period of time. Just as examples, look in the training section and see what Chippy and 11 have accomplished in about 6 or 8 weeks of HST.

 

[Neodavid]

Thanks, and maybe I didn't say it clearly, my bad...

I'm all for HST, this is my first trial, and I love it.

What didn't work for me was HIT as Mike Mentzer had it layed out, hit every muscle group once a week or less (for hard gainers).

HST is a great hope for me. I've tried a lot over the years, and it makes the most sense from what I've personally experienced.

Easy gainers and such, usually set the trend I imagine, because, well, they are succesful!

As a more average guy, maybe HST is the thing; I'm hoping it is. But at the same time, I like to hear the advice of everyone, and try it for myself. The muscle mags messed me up for years, so now I'm absolutely diving in to the forum world where people have a more varied set of successes with different programs.

My mistakes were with HIT and muscle mag stuff, never tried HST until just now, and I'm doing the program exactly as written, not changing anything (except I can't do incline benches, no good bench at our gym).

My take is that most people are clueless and looking to the biggest guy in the gym for training advice is equally as retarded (in about 99% of the cases).




You also said that you changed a bunch of things from the original program and made other mistakes. When the majority of people change HST (or really any program) they bungle it so badly and make such poor alterations that the final program is nothing close to the original.

From my experience, most people who claim that they gained nothing on 1, 2, 3 cycles of HST have changed it so much that they arent even doing HST. Every single person Ive helped with setting up an HST program has made great progress in a short period of time. Just as examples, look in the training section and see what Chippy and 11 have accomplished in about 6 or 8 weeks of HST.

 

[Bob Smith]

Thanks, and maybe I didn't say it clearly, my bad...

I'm all for HST, this is my first trial, and I love it.

What didn't work for me was HIT as Mike Mentzer had it layed out, hit every muscle group once a week or less (for hard gainers).

I think HIT is way overrated for muscular gains. Its not too terrible for strength, but far from ideal for lean mass.

As a more average guy, maybe HST is the thing; I'm hoping it is. But at the same time, I like to hear the advice of everyone, and try it for myself.

I just finished week 1 of 10s this morning. People with all different backgrounds have done very well with HST, in terms of hypertrophy. Its not ideal for people looking for major strength gains (ie, powerlifters), but its excellent for its intended purpose.

People that dismiss HST right off the bat most likely have 1) never tried it themselves, 2) never actually read the articles, and 3) think that a 3x/wk program couldnt possibly be better than 4-6x/wk. They are still living with the mentality that more is better. People look at me a little funny when I say I lift 3 days a week for 45-75 minutes each, and only 1-2 movements per bodypart. Oh well, my gains are smoking their "must go to failure on 18 movements per bodypart" and "you cant train a muscle more than once a week" ideas.

The muscle mags messed me up for years, so now I'm absolutely diving in to the forum world where people have a more varied set of successes with different programs.

My mistakes were with HIT and muscle mag stuff, never tried HST until just now, and I'm doing the program exactly as written, not changing anything (except I can't do incline benches, no good bench at our gym).

Muscle mags mess up waaay more people than they ever honestly help. They should be abolished.

Dont worry about not being able to do inclines, youll be fine with flat or decline.

 

[Neodavid]

All I know is at 3x a week, and this exciting program with all kinds of kudos from big guys, I'm suffering horribly over the weekend, wanting desperately to get into the gym. It's probably be a couple of cycles before I can calm down. I'm used to every day, you know? Going to have to go for a run now (Just a couple miles, no worries about marathon muscle eating stuff).

You know, if nothing else, if HST works for me as well as for you, it would by far be the most gains for the least effort, of any program I've ever been on. Return on investment wise, nothing comes close.

I think HIT is way overrated for muscular gains. Its not too terrible for strength, but far from ideal for lean mass.



I just finished week 1 of 10s this morning. People with all different backgrounds have done very well with HST, in terms of hypertrophy. Its not ideal for people looking for major strength gains (ie, powerlifters), but its excellent for its intended purpose.

People that dismiss HST right off the bat most likely have 1) never tried it themselves, 2) never actually read the articles, and 3) think that a 3x/wk program couldnt possibly be better than 4-6x/wk. They are still living with the mentality that more is better. People look at me a little funny when I say I lift 3 days a week for 45-75 minutes each, and only 1-2 movements per bodypart. Oh well, my gains are smoking their "must go to failure on 18 movements per bodypart" and "you cant train a muscle more than once a week" ideas.



Muscle mags mess up waaay more people than they ever honestly help. They should be abolished.

Dont worry about not being able to do inclines, youll be fine with flat or decline.

 

[ilovethedark]

I am guessing your diet isn't up to par.

AAS + great workouts - diet = worthless cycle.

My diet is low carb, low fat. After I workout, I eat a cup of oatmeal, and a 50g protein drink. Mid morning snack is half protein bar (15g). Lunch is salad with no carb dressing, sometimes chicken. Aft snack the other half of the bar. Dinner is usually chicken or steak. I have to kick up my workouts. Thanks guys.

 

[spound]

Damn bro, you eat like a bird. You aren't gonna gain too much on that diet.

 

[lamb88ert]

My diet is low carb, low fat. After I workout, I eat a cup of oatmeal, and a 50g protein drink. Mid morning snack is half protein bar (15g). Lunch is salad with no carb dressing, sometimes chicken. Aft snack the other half of the bar. Dinner is usually chicken or steak. I have to kick up my workouts. Thanks guys.

What???
Your diet is horrible, your looking at like 100 grams of protein a day, i eat more than that by lunch time when im NOT on gear, be serious u need to step that shit up alot more, shoot for like atleast 250g a day..... eat more carbs and try to compensate by some cardio and liftin ur balls off............

 

[ilovethedark]

What???
Your diet is horrible, your looking at like 100 grams of protein a day, i eat more than that by lunch time when im NOT on gear, be serious u need to step that shit up alot more, shoot for like atleast 250g a day..... eat more carbs and try to compensate by some cardio and liftin ur balls off............

I hear ya..i lost a shitload of weight by going lo/no carb and am hesitant to start adding them now...it was a chore getting myself to eat oatmeal...