GH Recommendations for improved body composition / fat loss / anti-aging / sleep

[CryptoOGwannabe]

Hi everyone,

I'm currently probably 12-13% and slowly getting leaner (on TRT), running in a small deficit. I am between recomping / cutting.

I wanted to try GH and I most interested in it from the body composition / fat loss (Especially around my abdomen, which is such a pain for me to fully get rid of without having to get diced everywhere else) / sleep and general anti-aging.

I would want to pin max 2 times a day and I heard that pre-workout fasted is best for fat loss - whilst before bed for sleep. If one takes HG only in the morning, fasted, pre-workout, would then his/her sleep worsen? What dose is recommended for my goal? I was thinking 2 IUs, 1 before fasted cardio, and 1 before bed. What about on non-cardio days? before fasted weights (which i always do fasted in early AM)? What about totally off days (weekends - though might do 1 hour-ish walks with the gf)?

Is Berberine / Metformin necessary if one eats quite well, stays lean, and does cardio?

What about cycling it off? I heard it's probably a good idea to not run it year-round as to resynthesize your insulin response. would 6 months on 2-3 off be good?

Given I am new to GH, can someone tell me the least detrimental way to run this for longevity? Also is there any downside to run it for some time and then stopping? Do you end up feeling like shit for some time?

Planning to buy from Optitropin.EU@protonmail.com - anyone has good experiences?

I am new here but I already love this forum <3

 

[Evom1]

I would not train fasted. I would want to send her most of your carbs around your workout pre-intraim post to maximize performance in the gym.

Do cardio fasted with HGH and then eat and then train that would be a good approach. Take the gh a little bit before you do cardio.

2iu is a great dose. I'd either do pre fasted cardio or before bed. If fasted cardio isn't an option, take it before bed

No need to cycle off

Berberine and metformin are not needed

 

[may2021]

Hi everyone,

I'm currently probably 12-13% and slowly getting leaner (on TRT), running in a small deficit. I am between recomping / cutting.

I wanted to try GH and I most interested in it from the body composition / fat loss (Especially around my abdomen, which is such a pain for me to fully get rid of without having to get diced everywhere else) / sleep and general anti-aging.

I would want to pin max 2 times a day and I heard that pre-workout fasted is best for fat loss - whilst before bed for sleep. If one takes HG only in the morning, fasted, pre-workout, would then his/her sleep worsen? What dose is recommended for my goal? I was thinking 2 IUs, 1 before fasted cardio, and 1 before bed. What about on non-cardio days? before fasted weights (which i always do fasted in early AM)? What about totally off days (weekends - though might do 1 hour-ish walks with the gf)?

Is Berberine / Metformin necessary if one eats quite well, stays lean, and does cardio?

What about cycling it off? I heard it's probably a good idea to not run it year-round as to resynthesize your insulin response. would 6 months on 2-3 off be good?

Given I am new to GH, can someone tell me the least detrimental way to run this for longevity? Also is there any downside to run it for some time and then stopping? Do you end up feeling like shit for some time?

Planning to buy from Optitropin.EU@protonmail.com - anyone has good experiences?

I am new here but I already love this forum <3

Evom1 has good thoughts from someone that seems to have a lot of experience in this stuff.

But if you're just starting gh:

How old are you?

If under 40 with your BF% you'd get a far better fat cutting response just increasing cardio than doing 2ius a day, while you naturally increase your GH levels. In fact, the extra water retention you may get, would defeat its purpose. So, at 2ius, you may find the need to increase your cardio anyway, while just spending extra money.

For sleep just use melatonin.

I say the above based off using 2-6ius pharma over a few years as an old codger that also looked to GH as anti-aging and my intro to PEDs. GH is anything but anti-aging but if you insist, I wouldn't waste your time on anything but pharma.

Also consider revisiting cycling, depending upon how your body reacts, after say the first 6 months. Genetically prepositioned individuals are going to notice fairly early on if there are new growths, spots, and of course, you'd then stop immediately.

 

[CryptoOGwannabe]

Melatonin for sleep has been thoroughly debunked as junk by Matthew Walker.

I am 35 y.o. was particularly curious because of what I heard in terms of body composition and fat loss, especially around midsection. I think i have pretty bad genetics when it comes to bf distribution I hate what it takes for me to get a flat midsection from the navel down (and a bit of love handles), where I basically have to be SOOO lean everywhere else that it hurts and often makes it not worth it..

I hear tesamorelin seems to be particularly efficacious in the midsection fat loss context, but did not find that anywehere.

@may2021 what do you mean by it is anything but anti-aging? isn't it more if you run it at rather high BB doses that it becomes more detrimental than helpful from a longevity perspective?

Why also you wouldn't waste your time with anything but pharma? It's super difficult i think (beside price) to get pharma... and i hear decent generics aren't gonna be that bad..

@Evom1 would you also think it's probably better waiting a few years >40 before trying that out to get max benefits?

 

[Evom1]

@Evom1 would you also think it's probably better waiting a few years >40 before trying that out to get max benefits?

I think for fat loss and sleep you're totally fine using it at your age. It's very very commonly used during contest prep in bodybuilders by people much younger than you for its fat loss benefits

 

[CryptoOGwannabe]

I think for fat loss and sleep you're totally fine using it at your age. It's very very commonly used during contest prep in bodybuilders by people much younger than you for its fat loss benefits

What do you think about minimum time to run it to see results and especially if one has longetivity in mind and don't want to exceed on the risk front? 6 month on 3 off? or 6 months on and 6 off? I just wonder if say i get relatively good results on the body (re)composition front, and i get to a good level where I am happy with in say a couple of years, would it be fair to assume that continuing there (will still be on TRT) with good diet, lifting and cardio, would allow me to maintain the new shape / new body fat distribution?

Also, on a different topic, what needle size do you guys use for subq hgh? is 30G good? or 32G? what about length? only done IM injections so far..

 

[Evom1]

For the purpose of fat loss, IF diet and training are properly dialed in AND it's used in conjunction with fasted cardio, you will see results very rapidly.

I do not think you should cycle on and off it unless you encountered something via blood work to warrant that.

Whatever size you can find for insulin syringe is fine. 29, 30, 31, 32 etc and length I typically grab 5/8"

 

[CryptoOGwannabe]

For the purpose of fat loss, IF diet and training are properly dialed in AND it's used in conjunction with fasted cardio, you will see results very rapidly.

I do not think you should cycle on and off it unless you encountered something via blood work to warrant that.

Whatever size you can find for insulin syringe is fine. 29, 30, 31, 32 etc and length I typically grab 5/8"

I seem to only find 8mm (5/16") for 30+ gauge.... is that a problem if it is that short since it's gonna be subq?

 

[Blang]

Melatonin for sleep has been thoroughly debunked as junk by Matthew Walker.

No, it hasn't. Walker hasn't done anything of the sort. The only thing he's done is refer to a "meta analysis" that he's never provided a full reference to, with the only criteria being "sleep onset" and "sleep efficiency".

Meanwhile, loads of meta-studies as recent as 2022 fly directly in the face of his claims, particularly wrt total sleep time and overall sleep quality (which for some strange reason he doesn't touch.

As to your original questions, there is no issue running a low-dose long term, 1-2iu will likely show improvements relatively quickly.

With as many hangups/concerns as you seem to have, I would suggest strongly looking into GH secretagogues (CJC/IPA IMO). I think you'd get everything you need out of them, and you can always switch to full GH down the road if you want.

 

[I6JQdr06]

Melatonin for sleep has been thoroughly debunked as junk by Matthew Walker.

I don’t know who Matthew Walker is but melatonin is literally the hormone which causes you to sleep. When the photosensitive ganglions in your eyes stop sensing daylight (IE when it gets dark), your brain down-regulates serotonin production and up-regulates melatonin production.

This is why we sleep during the night and not during the day so when you take an exogenous source of melatonin you’re literally telling your brain it’s time to go to sleep.

This is commonly accepted medically so I haven’t looked for sources to back up my claim. If you need evidence, let me know and I’ll dig up a bunch of studies.

 

[malfeasance]

I am 35 y.o. was particularly curious because of what I heard in terms of body composition and fat loss, especially around midsection. I think i have pretty bad genetics when it comes to bf distribution I hate what it takes for me to get a flat midsection from the navel down (and a bit of love handles), where I basically have to be SOOO lean everywhere else that it hurts and often makes it not worth it..

Is this a joke?

I swear.

Here is the deal - for everybody, not just you, fat loss on the belly is most visible starting from the top down. There is nothing at all special about your genetics in that respect. It is typical male fat deposition. And guess what? You describe "love handles." Well, the fat loss around the small of the back and to the sides comes last. Everything else must be lean first. That is why the "Christmas Tree" look is coveted as a show of conditioning on stage.

So please tell us that was just a joke.

If you want these areas to be lean, then you must engage in another month of cutting. Period. You. Me. Everybody else reading, too.

If you think 2 iu of hgh is going to replace that unpleasant month, then you are in for a rude awakening.

 

[may2021]

No, it hasn't. Walker hasn't done anything of the sort. The only thing he's done is refer to a "meta analysis" that he's never provided a full reference to, with the only criteria being "sleep onset" and "sleep efficiency".

Meanwhile, loads of meta-studies as recent as 2022 fly directly in the face of his claims, particularly wrt total sleep time and overall sleep quality (which for some strange reason he doesn't touch.

As to your original questions, there is no issue running a low-dose long term, 1-2iu will likely show improvements relatively quickly.

With as many hangups/concerns as you seem to have, I would suggest strongly looking into GH secretagogues (CJC/IPA IMO). I think you'd get everything you need out of them, and you can always switch to full GH down the road if you want.

Agreed.

That shit works. Melatonin.

And there's a lot of people in the anti aging community that use huge amounts of the shit... we're talking 100 to 200 mgs every night!
They love it. And they're still kicking.

And your suggestion on secretagogues is good, far safer idea.

 

[CryptoOGwannabe]

Is this a joke?

I swear.

Here is the deal - for everybody, not just you, fat loss on the belly is most visible starting from the top down. There is nothing at all special about your genetics in that respect. It is typical male fat deposition. And guess what? You describe "love handles." Well, the fat loss around the small of the back and to the sides comes last. Everything else must be lean first. That is why the "Christmas Tree" look is coveted as a show of conditioning on stage.

So please tell us that was just a joke.

If you want these areas to be lean, then you must engage in another month of cutting. Period. You. Me. Everybody else reading, too.

If you think 2 iu of hgh is going to replace that unpleasant month, then you are in for a rude awakening.

So are you telling me that you have surveyed every person on earth :O ? Jokes aside, no actually i do not have considerable love handles at all, but considerable in the front.

From the youtube pees, you have "Matt does fitness" for example has crazy abs at a relatively high bf%, though his legs and glutes hold a lot of fat. Matt ogus also holds more in his legs and his midsection is always super lean. I do have a few friends who distribute bf the same way.

I sure shit know that in the end, it will come off also from there the longer you diet, but are you telling me that it's the same for everyone to have extremely lean legs, even striations in the quads, and yet be able to pinch considerable fat below the navel?

 

[CryptoOGwannabe]

No, it hasn't. Walker hasn't done anything of the sort. The only thing he's done is refer to a "meta analysis" that he's never provided a full reference to, with the only criteria being "sleep onset" and "sleep efficiency".

Meanwhile, loads of meta-studies as recent as 2022 fly directly in the face of his claims, particularly wrt total sleep time and overall sleep quality (which for some strange reason he doesn't touch.

As to your original questions, there is no issue running a low-dose long term, 1-2iu will likely show improvements relatively quickly.

With as many hangups/concerns as you seem to have, I would suggest strongly looking into GH secretagogues (CJC/IPA IMO). I think you'd get everything you need out of them, and you can always switch to full GH down the road if you want.

I am thinking ill try with CJC no dac and IPA before bed and pre fasted cardio and see how i feel and like it. I'm still 34, so I can just keep dieting and training with assistance (only recently started gear) and then in late 30s , start 40's i can do HGH.

 

[Canuck83]

Agreed.

That shit works. Melatonin.

And there's a lot of people in the anti aging community that use huge amounts of the shit... we're talking 100 to 200 mgs every night!
They love it. And they're still kicking.

And your suggestion on secretagogues is good, far safer idea.

100-200mgs of melatonin ? I take 5 mg and it knocks me out but leaves me a bit groggy in the morning, can’t imagine 100mg +

 

[may2021]

100-200mgs of melatonin ? I take 5 mg and it knocks me out but leaves me a bit groggy in the morning, can’t imagine 100mg +

Just saying what I've read on the old codger, anti-aging forums.

 

[clearheaded]

"secretagogues is good, far safer idea."

why would these be safer? you have no idea how high ur hormones go and far more of a guess no? because your body is making it its safer? my sense is that there is a WHOLE lot we have no idea about peptides and safety, never mind exactly how many of them work is theory if I am not mistaken. I'm FAAAR from an expert but old enough to know nothing comes free, and best to proceed with caution with secretaloges mk etc. anyway just pointing out that no one can say with certainty if hgh or a peptide is more safe particularly when u hear folks taking peptides and increase igf far beyond what 2iu would of and for longer periods than normal hgh. (ie like taking 4 iu 3 times a day in theory if this story of these crazy spikes peptides can cause and prob most are fine with that but if worried about safety cancer diabetes may be best to stay away from esp longer acting/stronger secretagogues) dose response is just not known (in my very admittedly limited research) well enough and so many factors esp with ugl peptide.

but I get it, if body is making it at least isn't dependant on external and shuts off production, making it safer,is the theory correct? makes sense, but know one KNOWS.

all I know is FAR more anecdotes/research with somatropin vs peptides. not a fight just discussion and here to learn aswell.

also melatonin works. used to take it when it was hush hush under the counter. wake up 8 hrs from when I took it refreshed no matter if took me 30 min or 3 hrs to fall asleep, then the nightmares started and cant take a full 3mg or will get terrors sleep paralysis. I wish it was plecebo and kept working lol. should also mention meta analysis can say whatever author wants it to say as is clear in this case discussed and source of the info means just as much as the data/analysis imho.

 

[may2021]

"secretagogues is good, far safer idea."

why would these be safer? you have no idea how high ur hormones go and far more of a guess no? because your body is making it its safer? my sense is that there is a WHOLE lot we have no idea about peptides and safety, never mind exactly how many of them work is theory if I am not mistaken. I'm FAAAR from an expert but old enough to know nothing comes free, and best to proceed with caution with secretaloges mk etc. anyway just pointing out that no one can say with certainty if hgh or a peptide is more safe particularly when u hear folks taking peptides and increase igf far beyond what 2iu would of and for longer periods than normal hgh. (ie like taking 4 iu 3 times a day in theory if this story of these crazy spikes peptides can cause and prob most are fine with that but if worried about safety cancer diabetes may be best to stay away from esp longer acting/stronger secretagogues) dose response is just not known (in my very admittedly limited research) well enough and so many factors esp with ugl peptide.

but I get it, if body is making it at least isn't dependant on external and shuts off production, making it safer,is the theory correct? makes sense, but know one KNOWS.

all I know is FAR more anecdotes/research with somatropin vs peptides. not a fight just discussion and here to learn aswell.

also melatonin works. used to take it when it was hush hush under the counter. wake up 8 hrs from when I took it refreshed no matter if took me 30 min or 3 hrs to fall asleep, then the nightmares started and cant take a full 3mg or will get terrors sleep paralysis. I wish it was plecebo and kept working lol. should also mention meta analysis can say whatever author wants it to say as is clear in this case discussed and source of the info means just as much as the data/analysis imho.

I agree practically.
Unless ones in a position to do some serious testing of what you inject and a multitude of pathways in your body, you're just guessing, as with everything I suppose.

I disagree theoretically.
-No shut down of natural production in the body
-Less evidence (so far) of high blood pressure, diabetes, cardiovascular disease and cancer

 

[Jin23]

Is this a joke?

I swear.

Here is the deal - for everybody, not just you, fat loss on the belly is most visible starting from the top down. There is nothing at all special about your genetics in that respect. It is typical male fat deposition. And guess what? You describe "love handles." Well, the fat loss around the small of the back and to the sides comes last. Everything else must be lean first. That is why the "Christmas Tree" look is coveted as a show of conditioning on stage.

So please tell us that was just a joke.

If you want these areas to be lean, then you must engage in another month of cutting. Period. You. Me. Everybody else reading, too.

If you think 2 iu of hgh is going to replace that unpleasant month, then you are in for a rude awakening.

GH is a good idea for him. Abdominal fat gets deposited especially in lue of hormonal issues as insulin resistance or high cortisol. GH helps to reduce cortisol in fat tissues via cortisol to cortisone conversion. And low GH helps in the accumulation of stubborn fat around the belly, lower back.

 

[clearheaded]

@Jin23 but GH also increases insulin resistance. bit of a paradox long term. ?

@may2021 I agree POSSSIBLE less chance of lowering production of GH once stopped wi secreatalogues. BUT depends on which peptide, ie are you inducing a stress like PTSD response? does that usually affect hormones in various ways long term when people have natural UBER high hormones for a time (I know over simplification) but I think we know PTSD messes with hormones long term and is simply from getting HIGH HORMONES, obv something good to check with someone who knows more about this. just because no direct studies like GH we can assume similar outcome. remember mice with genetic changes affecting GH recreation (like peptides) also aged faster and lost cognitive function faster and I think were they get alot of the ideas of harms of GH from vs actual exogenous injections(ie actually very possible HGH is far safer long term esp as can control dosage vs being like a mouse who secretes to much and gets stupid and dies sooner).. I dont have extensive knowledge and haven't been around along to see guys who have been on GH for years get diabetes (but know it is pretty common) or cancer, just that they die younger but could be from host of other drugs wi body composition.