GH works better with higher estrogen?

[isopropyl]

I've read that through estrogen you get better IGF-1 levels from your GH, effectively making GH more worthwhile, which implies that higher estrogen is better for GH.

My two questions are: 1) Does this work such that it lowers your overall estrogen? and 2) Is it worth it to run GH while running an AI that keeps your E2 on the lower side?

 

[Ghoul]

I've read that through estrogen you get better IGF-1 levels from your GH, effectively making GH more worthwhile, which implies that higher estrogen is better for GH.

My two questions are: 1) Does this work such that it lowers your overall estrogen? and 2) Is it worth it to run GH while running an AI that keeps your E2 on the lower side?

E2 raises endogenous GH but suppresses IGF conversion in the liver. The net effect can be increased or decreased IGF.

On rHGH, endogenous GH is suppressed anyway. So all estrogen does is suppress IGF production.

TLDR lower estrogen by blocking aromatase via AI results in higher IGF conversion.

 

[Stealth500]

E2 raises endogenous GH but suppresses IGF conversion in the liver. The net effect can be increased or decreased IGF.

On rHGH, endogenous GH is suppressed anyway. So all estrogen does is suppress IGF production.

TLDR lower estrogen by blocking aromatase via AI results in higher IGF conversion.

i wonder if conversely exogenous IGF-I would supress estradiol. Anyone know a lady wants to gineau pig?

 

[Ghoul]

i wonder if conversely exogenous IGF-I would supress estradiol. Anyone know a lady wants to gineau pig?

My theory is this is why some women get almost "acromegalic" features as they age.

Post menopause, estrogen drops, IGF no longer suppressed, and bam, a few years later big nose and other coarse facial features.

Another reason for HRT.

 

[Stealth500]

My theory is this is why some women get almost "acromegalic" features as they age.

Post menopause, estrogen drops, IGF no longer suppressed, and bam, a few years later big nose and other coarse facial features.

Another reason for HRT.

even the combination of rhGH with anabolics like anavar in women supressing estrodiol so much that it's causing menstrual irregularities is likely allowing for more conversion to IGF-I. Seems logical if a woman is to run these cycles to do so short term before any adverse permanent effect occur.

 

[isopropyl]

E2 raises endogenous GH but suppresses IGF conversion in the liver. The net effect can be increased or decreased IGF.

On rHGH, endogenous GH is suppressed anyway. So all estrogen does is suppress IGF production.

TLDR lower estrogen by blocking aromatase via AI results in higher IGF conversion.

Thank you for the to-the-point answer Ghoul.

 

[Avies48]

E2 raises endogenous GH but suppresses IGF conversion in the liver. The net effect can be increased or decreased IGF.

On rHGH, endogenous GH is suppressed anyway. So all estrogen does is suppress IGF production.

TLDR lower estrogen by blocking aromatase via AI results in higher IGF conversion.

So if ur estrogen is already low without the usage of an ai… how does it effect gh and igf?

 

[Ghoul]

So if ur estrogen is already low without the usage of an ai… how does it effect gh and igf?

On or off rHGH?

Off, low estrogen drops your GH levels, raises your IGF conversion rate (less suppression). From what I've read this usually means slightly higher IGF than if estrogen was high. If estrogen was high, GH levels would be higher, but IGF conversion is suppressed because of higher estrogen,

On, with low estrogen, the short version is, external GH is coming in, and low estrogen means lower IGF conversion suppression so IGF is high.

 

[Avies48]

On or off rHGH?

Off, with low estrogen, drops your GH levels, raises your IGF conversion rate (less suppression). From what I've read this usually means slightly higher IGF than if estrogen was high. GH levels were higher, but IGF conversion was suppressed because of higher estrogen,

On, with low estrogen, the short version is, external GH is coming in, and low estrogen means lower IGF conversion suppression so IGF is high.

So if ive never used gh yet have low estrogen… using gh could… cause lowering igf conversion??

My igf is only 138… but waiting on a slue of blood work to assess to see what path im going to go down

 

[Ghoul]

So if ive never used gh yet have low estrogen… using gh could… cause lowering igf conversion??

My igf is only 138… but waiting on a slue of blood work to assess to see what path im going to go down

No sorry I realize it's confusing.

High Estrogen raises GH production.
High Estrogen makes the liver produce LESS IGF from that GH.

When you're using EXTERNAL GH, your natural GH Production doesn't matter. It's shut off.

BUT, your liver still needs to convert that external GH to IGF.

With low estrogen, the liver can make MORE IGF from the same amount of GH. So IGF will be high.

So low estrogen+ rHGH= high IGF.
high estrogen+ rHGH= low IGF

 

[Darealme83]

No sorry I realize it's confusing.

High Estrogen raises GH production.
High Estrogen makes the liver produce LESS IGF from that GH.

When you're using EXTERNAL GH, your natural GH Production doesn't matter. It's shut off.

BUT, your liver still needs to convert that external GH to IGF.

With low estrogen, the liver can make MORE IGF from the same amount of GH. So IGF will be high.

So low estrogen+ rHGH= high IGF.
high estrogen+ rHGH= low IGF

Ghoul is the GOAT.

 

[Freeboomboom]

No sorry I realize it's confusing.

High Estrogen raises GH production.
High Estrogen makes the liver produce LESS IGF from that GH.

When you're using EXTERNAL GH, your natural GH Production doesn't matter. It's shut off.

BUT, your liver still needs to convert that external GH to IGF.

With low estrogen, the liver can make MORE IGF from the same amount of GH. So IGF will be high.

So low estrogen+ rHGH= high IGF.
high estrogen+ rHGH= low IGF

Man you got it backwards, gh + high e2 = more igf production from the liver. You want your e2 as high as possible without side effects to max out the igf from your gh. You use test to bring up your e2 to whatever level that is then you don’t use more test.

Todd lee has this proven by bloodwork not your bro science without proofs.

 

[Ghoul]

Man you got it backwards, gh + high e2 = more igf production from the liver. You want your e2 as high as possible without side effects to max out the igf from your gh. You use test to bring up your e2 to whatever level that is then you don’t use more test.

Todd lee has this proven by bloodwork not your bro science without proofs.

Todd Lee vs The entire science of endocrinology.

Let's see your "proofs".

Here's mine:

Frontiers | Growth Hormone/Insulin Growth Factor Axis in Sex Steroid Associated Disorders and Related Cancers

To date, almost all solid malignancies have implicated Insulin-like growth factor (IGF) signalling as a driver of tumour growth. However, the remarkable leve...

www.frontiersin.org

 

[Freeboomboom]

Todd Lee vs The entire science of endocrinology.

Let's see your "proofs".

Here's mine:

View attachment 343703

Frontiers | Growth Hormone/Insulin Growth Factor Axis in Sex Steroid Associated Disorders and Related Cancers

To date, almost all solid malignancies have implicated Insulin-like growth factor (IGF) signalling as a driver of tumour growth. However, the remarkable leve...

www.frontiersin.org

Thats proves nothing…

Actually staying on the same diet, training, steroids, gh and only raising e2 by add more test and wait a month to do bloodwork is how you get real data if e2 raise igf from gh or not.

You can use youtube look up him and you going to learn a bit

 

[Stealth500]

Thats proves nothing…

Actually staying on the same diet, training, steroids, gh and only raising e2 by add more test and wait a month to do bloodwork is how you get real data if e2 raise igf from gh or not.

You can use youtube look up him and you going to learn a bit

as it concerns women, higher e2 = higher lipid metabolism.

During the Luteal phase of the menstrual cycle fat oxidation is enhanced in eumenorrheic (in those with a normal menstrual cycle)
women when estradiol is high. Also in women with high estradiol from HRT. However, women do not get the same negative feedback IGF-I response as men.

 

[Ghoul]

Thats proves nothing…

Actually staying on the same diet, training, steroids, gh and only raising e2 by add more test and wait a month to do bloodwork is how you get real data if e2 raise igf from gh or not.

You can use youtube look up him and you going to learn a bit

Proves nothing:

Role of Estrogen and Estrogen Receptor in GH-Secreting Adenomas - PMC

Acromegaly is a rare disease with several systemic complications that may lead to increased overall morbidity and mortality. Despite several available treatments, ranging from transsphenoidal resection of GH-producing adenomas to different medical ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

The mechanism of action of estrogen inhibiting IGF production is exactly the same in men and women.

Estrogen increases GH production, and reduces GH to IGF conversion.

The only way Todd Lee's results are correct is if he found that higher estrogen led to higher IGF without the use of rHGH. That's because estrogen increases production of GH that is greater than the amount it reduces GH to IGF conversion, so IGF level rises DESPITE less GH to IGF conversion.

But when you're injecting exogenous GH, all higher estrogen does is inhibit the liver's ability to convert it to IGF, and therefore at the same dose of GH, lower estrogen results in higher IGF, and higher estrogen lowers IGF.

 

[Freeboomboom]

Proves nothing:

View attachment 343713

Role of Estrogen and Estrogen Receptor in GH-Secreting Adenomas - PMC

Acromegaly is a rare disease with several systemic complications that may lead to increased overall morbidity and mortality. Despite several available treatments, ranging from transsphenoidal resection of GH-producing adenomas to different medical ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

The mechanism of action of estrogen inhibiting IGF production is exactly the same in men and women.

Estrogen increases GH production, and reduces GH to IGF conversion.

The only way Todd Lee's results are correct is if he found that higher estrogen led to higher IGF without the use of rHGH. That's because estrogen increases production of GH that is greater than the amount it reduces GH to IGF conversion, so IGF level rises DESPITE less GH to IGF conversion.

But when you're injecting exogenous GH, all higher estrogen does is inhibit the liver's ability to convert it to IGF, and therefore at the same dose of GH, lower estrogen results in higher IGF, and higher estrogen lowers IGF.

”But when you're injecting exogenous GH, all higher estrogen does is inhibit the liver's ability to convert it to IGF, and therefore at the same dose of GH, lower estrogen results in higher IGF, and higher estrogen lowers IGF.”

This is exactly the opposite of what he found in bloodwork both in himself and his clients, he is no troll ifbb pro and medical doctor so he can order and read his own bloodwork.

Whatever you claim bloodwork don’t lie.

 

[BigTomJ]

The reason Todd Lee and idiots like him think "high estrogen makes your GH more effective"
It's because they are basing it entirely off of serum IGF levels and completely ignoring what serum igf1 testing is actually measuring or that igf binding proteins exist.

Serum IGF testing cannot differentiate between available and bound igf (if it's in serum, almost all of it will be bound to one of the igf1 binding proteins). We don't care about igf1 in serum because it's a useless metric for the purposes of getting an anabolic effect from igf1, what we care about for our purposes is igf1 in tissue, which cannot be measured without a muscle biopsy.

High e2 simulates the production and release of igf1 binding proteins, there are a bunch of them and they do various things such as shuttling the hormone and in some cases, essentially rendering it inert.

IGFBP1 as far as we can tell, completely renders the igf1 it binds to add useless until it's excreted.
High e2 specifically elevates IGFBP1 more than other BP.

Thus, because e2 is high, IGFBP1 is high.
Because IGFBP1 is high, that means there is a greater proportion of your available igf bound to that binding protein and circulating in serum, uselessly.

 

[BigDadd7]

The reason Todd Lee and idiots like him think "high estrogen makes your GH more effective"
It's because they are basing it entirely off of serum IGF levels and completely ignoring what serum igf1 testing is actually measuring or that igf binding proteins exist.

Serum IGF testing cannot differentiate between available and bound igf (if it's in serum, almost all of it will be bound to one of the igf1 binding proteins). We don't care about igf1 in serum because it's a useless metric for the purposes of getting an anabolic effect from igf1, what we care about for our purposes is igf1 in tissue, which cannot be measured without a muscle biopsy.

High e2 simulates the production and release of igf1 binding proteins, there are a bunch of them and they do various things such as shuttling the hormone and in some cases, essentially rendering it inert.

IGFBP1 as far as we can tell, completely renders the igf1 it binds to add useless until it's excreted.
High e2 specifically elevates IGFBP1 more than other BP.

Thus, because e2 is high, IGFBP1 is high.
Because IGFBP1 is high, that means there is a greater proportion of your available igf bound to that binding protein and circulating in serum, uselessly.

That's good stuff

 

[readalot]

The reason Todd Lee and idiots like him think "high estrogen makes your GH more effective"
It's because they are basing it entirely off of serum IGF levels and completely ignoring what serum igf1 testing is actually measuring or that igf binding proteins exist.

Serum IGF testing cannot differentiate between available and bound igf (if it's in serum, almost all of it will be bound to one of the igf1 binding proteins). We don't care about igf1 in serum because it's a useless metric for the purposes of getting an anabolic effect from igf1, what we care about for our purposes is igf1 in tissue, which cannot be measured without a muscle biopsy.

High e2 simulates the production and release of igf1 binding proteins, there are a bunch of them and they do various things such as shuttling the hormone and in some cases, essentially rendering it inert.

IGFBP1 as far as we can tell, completely renders the igf1 it binds to add useless until it's excreted.
High e2 specifically elevates IGFBP1 more than other BP.

Thus, because e2 is high, IGFBP1 is high.
Because IGFBP1 is high, that means there is a greater proportion of your available igf bound to that binding protein and circulating in serum, uselessly.

Dayum! Well done between you and @Ghoul.
Why y'all on a roll head over there and teach him lowering SHBG doesnt "free up more T"!

R

Post in thread 'Oxandrolone lowered total testosterone 36% while on TRT?'

Aug 9, 2025

Okay.. so what happens with the test that was bound in that SHBG? Doesn't lowering it free up the testosterone?

Here is a picture. Well understood phenomenon if you dig...

Permanent crash of estrogen? - Page 8 - Excel Male Health Forum

I’m still having low e2 symptoms 5 weeks off ai I’m really nervous It’s gonna be perment? I lost my emotions and dopamine appetite energy

www.excelmale.com

Read the post and also the papers. Very helpful.

• readalot

• 

I cant honestly remember if he pushes that myth as well. But very related topic.

Warms my heart people getting good info.